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Sunnis Accuse Iraqi Military of Kidnappings and Slayings

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posted on Nov, 30 2005 @ 06:21 AM
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Ne w York Times

As the American military pushes the largely Shiite Iraqi security services into a larger role in combating the insurgency, evidence has begun to mount suggesting that the Iraqi forces are carrying out executions in predominantly Sunni neighborhoods.

Hundreds of accounts of killings and abductions have emerged in recent weeks, most of them brought forward by Sunni civilians, who claim that their relatives have been taken away by Iraqi men in uniform without warrant or explanation.

Some Sunni men have been found dead in ditches and fields, with bullet holes in their temples, acid burns on their skin, and holes in their bodies apparently made by electric drills. Many have simply vanished.

Some of the young men have turned up alive in prison. In a secret bunker discovered earlier this month in an Interior Ministry building in Baghdad, American and Iraqi officials acknowledged that some of the mostly Sunni inmates appeared to have been tortured.

American officials, who are overseeing the training of the Iraqi Army and the police, acknowledge that police officers and Iraqi soldiers, and the militias with which they are associated, may indeed be carrying out killings and abductions in Sunni communities, without direct American knowledge.

Ayad Allawi, a prominent Iraqi politician who is close to the Sunni community, charged in an interview published Sunday in The London Observer that the Iraqi government - and the Ministry of Interior in particular - was condoning torture and running death squads.

One Sunni group taking testimony from families in Baghdad said it had documented the death or disappearance of 700 Sunni civilians in the past four months.


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

So, let me get this Straight:

when the Iraqi Insurgents, MANILY composed of Sunni Muslims in Iraq, Kill somebody that is called TERRORISM,

BUT when Iraqi Military - trained by the US Armed Forces - do exactly the SAME THING, that is NOT called Terrorism?

How exactly are the US Forces conquering "Hearts and Minds" of ALL Iraqi people by supporting just one side, widening the Abyss between the two religious groups even more?




posted on Dec, 1 2005 @ 05:49 AM
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Great post! But Sunnis aren’t like Americans-they don’t have the same rights as you or I do; and if they did then surely they wouldn’t be being treated like this? Perhaps some of my tax money wouldn’t be going towards retraining their tortures? (at least until they had agreed to show marginally more respect for human life).
But terrible things are happening to the Sunnis on a daily basis and this is being particularly badly reported.

Because Saddam was a Sunni, this ethnic group (of about 23% of Iraq’s population) became particularly privileged, educated and civilised. But clearly many of Iraq’s 60% Shiite (Muslim Fundamentalist) population did not. With Saddam removed from power the Sunnis are now a minority facing sickening revenge at the hands of the newly powerful majority.
They have no protection other than the insurgency and themselves. This is because for many reasons (not least the fact many are intellectuals) a large portion of the Resistance is Sunni. And with the notable exception Abu Musab al-Zarqawi they tend to be just that: Resistance to the occupation (as opposed to outright terrorists).
Unfortunately this doesn’t change the fact that using troops to protect the Sunnis is hardly a great way to keep the body count down.

So I'm proud a portion of my tax money is going towards rebuilding Iraq’s army and with it the killers of Sunnis: insurgent, terrorist, woman and children alike (excuse the sarcasm).

In a totally opinionated way I think “what a shame journalists aren’t reporting more on the Sunnis?” but then I think “they would find themselves beheaded by CIA employed Iraqi “terrorists”.

www.globalresearch.ca...

news.bbc.co.uk... (mentions how they had wigs) (I think the page used to mention explosives in their standard equipment)

judicial-inc.biz...
This site is very interesting. Says they may have been Israelis. Warning: press the internet stop button to stop the wretched music!!!



posted on Dec, 1 2005 @ 05:58 AM
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Originally posted by Liberal1984
Great post! But Sunnis aren’t like Americans-they don’t have the same rights as you or I do; and if they did then surely they wouldn’t be being treated like this? Perhaps some of my tax money wouldn’t be going towards retraining their tortures? (at least until they had agreed to show marginally more respect for human life). But terrible things are happening to the Sunnis on a daily basis and this is being particularly badly reported.

Thanks!


Basicly thats the Way the US goverment wants to keep it, if you ask me: divided and angry at each other. This way, they are weaker, then United. Imagine that Sunni, Shia and Kurdish People get togather in one big Resistance against US and other Coalition Forces? That would be pretty Bloody - but I guess that was the Lesson Learned in 'Nam.

Divide them and you can Conquer them. The "Endless Conflict" Scenario Ficts the Corporate and Military Agendas perfectly - more War, more Profit, more Money, more Business. And thats why they will try to keep the Nation of Iraq Apart - which will Ultimately bring them to a Bloody Civil war, if it is not here already...



posted on Dec, 1 2005 @ 08:14 AM
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So, lets rephrase this:

The terrorists (almsot 100% Sunni) are claiming that the ISF are killing them


Isnt that like a thief complaining that somebody stole from them?


Funny stuff...



posted on Dec, 1 2005 @ 09:14 AM
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Skippytjc
Sunnis are human beings, not everyone is a terrorist; maybe you shouldn’t compare them to thieves?
If Iraq had no oil, and wasn’t near Israel do you think we would ever have there?
I doubt it.
So we are the thieves. We are taking their lives for our own purposes. And what is happening to the Sunnis alone may use up more lives than Saddam did. Without ethnic cleansing (and god forbid it) will the fighting even be over in 30 years?

I wish against the Christian accepting minority, the educated and most civilised people of Iraq’s ethnic groups facing annilation. And I hope that there is reincarnation because it provides a better justice than the paper justice system of Christianity. Skippytjc how do you live with yourself when you dismiss the plight of a whole people like you just did?



posted on Dec, 1 2005 @ 09:23 AM
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Its called Retribution

And the sad thing about it is . . . that it makes US look like is backing up What is been done to the Sunnis in Iraq.

But hey, they are seen as less human than Kurds and Shiites. Right?



posted on Dec, 1 2005 @ 01:21 PM
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Originally posted by skippytjc
So, lets rephrase this:

The terrorists (almsot 100% Sunni) are claiming that the ISF are killing them

Isnt that like a thief complaining that somebody stole from them?

Funny stuff...

Geee skippy, I wonder who put the Sunni Dictator and his Ba'ath Party on Power in the First Place. Was it the Russkies? Was it the Chinese? Or were the Isrealis?

ISF is performing Acts of TERRORISM too, if you did not notice - but HEY, that's OKEY, since they were trained by the United States, meaning that they can only "Do GOOD". Like the CONTRAS in Nicaragua - remember them?



posted on Dec, 1 2005 @ 01:36 PM
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Divide and conquer...
Americans dont need to do that when we save the Kurds and Shiites from Sunni attacks. So we dont waste our time telling the Kurds and Shiites the Sunnis are their enemies when we already have proof that the Sunnis hate both the Kurds and Shiites. They both wanted peace and Im sure a alot of Sunnis but Saddam and his cronies decided they felt superior in every way. Nice try Souljah.



posted on Dec, 1 2005 @ 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by deltaboy
Divide and conquer...
Americans dont need to do that when we save the Kurds and Shiites from Sunni attacks. So we dont waste our time telling the Kurds and Shiites the Sunnis are their enemies when we already have proof that the Sunnis hate both the Kurds and Shiites. They both wanted peace and Im sure a alot of Sunnis but Saddam and his cronies decided they felt superior in every way. Nice try Souljah.

Yea, Greta! Don't Waste time? And support this Terrorism, performed by so-called ISF, trained by the US? So, when is Terrorism, TERRORISM? When the US says so? CIA put Saddam's Ba'ath Party regime in the power in the first place, because they felt threatened by Iran and they needed a powerful Ally - and they got it in Iraq. At that time USA did not find Sunni leadership Cruel - they SUPPORTED it! So, you think today they suddenly started to CARE about them? You are very Naive if you think that - they are ALL nothing but meaningless Pawns of the Board, with only one destiny: to be Sacrificed. Bush don't care about Sunni, Shia or Kurds, frankly he does not even know they exsist. He can just rest Happy that they Hate each other so much now, that they do not stand united against the COW (Coalition of the Willing). But it will eventually Happen - so far 80% of ALL Iraqi people say, US forces should Leave Iraq.

Pathetic Try deltaboy.

Divide and conquer (D&C) is an important algorithm design paradigm. It works by recursively breaking down a problem into two or more sub-problems of the same (or related) type, until these become simple enough to be solved directly. The solutions to the sub-problems are then combined to give a solution to the original problem.
en.wikipedia.org...


In politics and sociology, divide and rule (also known as divide and conquer) is a strategy of gaining and maintaining power by breaking up larger concentrations of power into chunks that individually have less power than the one implementing the strategy. In reality, it often refers to a strategy where small power groups are prevented from linking up and becoming more powerful, since it is difficult to break up existing power structures.

Typical elements of this technique involve:
  • creating or at least not preventing petty feuds among smaller players. Such feuds drain resources and prevent alliances that could challenge the overlords.
  • aiding and promoting those who are wiling to cooperate with the overlords, often by giving them the lands and wealth of rebellious local rulers.
  • fostering distrust and enmity between local rulers.
  • encouraging expenditures on personal frivolities (e.g., showy palaces) that leave little money for political maneuvering and warfare.

en.wikipedia.org...

Find Anything FAMILIAR?

[edit on 1/12/05 by Souljah]



posted on Dec, 1 2005 @ 01:57 PM
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Originally posted by Souljah
Yea, Greta! Don't Waste time? And support this Terrorism, performed by so-called ISF, trained by the US? So, when is Terrorism, TERRORISM? When the US says so? CIA put Saddam's Ba'ath Party regime in the power in the first place, because they felt threatened by Iran and they needed a powerful Ally


uuuh yeah, they felt threaten by Iran in 1968 when the Baath party took power in Iraq. The CIA was supporting Iran until 1979 when the Shah was overthrown. Maybe you notice that the Baath party is linked with Syria decades ago? Makes you wonder. When the Iranians took over our embassy well thats game, and we decided to back the Iraqis against the Iranians. But since Saddam decided to invade Kuwait, we backed the Saudis and the Kuwaitis and it has been like that since then. Changing sides. Not divide and conquer. Remember we sided with the Soviet Union and then later on we became sworn enemies.



posted on Dec, 1 2005 @ 02:02 PM
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Originally posted by Liberal1984

Skippytjc
Sunnis are human beings, not everyone is a terrorist; maybe you shouldn’t compare them to thieves?


You are so confused I cannot even form a reply, but ill try:

#1 Where is your comment about the original poster stating that: "Sunnis Accuse Iraqi Military of Kidnappings and Slayings". Thats a blanket statement as well, does that mean that ALL SUNNI'S are accusing the ISF of the kidnappings and killings? Of course not. But you seem to omit any sentiment about that but call me out on the same sort of refference I make. Its YOUR shortsidedness and racism that makes you think blanket statements apply to all, and its your agenda that selectivly ignores some and not others.

#2 Who called all Sunni's thieves? Thats called an "Analogy", and you are either very much unlearned or trying to play some sort of game if you cannot grasp the concept of my analogy. I looked up the word for you (seems you need a hand with this):

a·nal·o·gy
a. Similarity in some respects between things that are otherwise dissimilar.
b. A comparison based on such similarity. See Synonyms at likeness.

Bottom line FACT: The insurgency is made of mostly of Sunni's, always has been. My anaogy, for the people who are capable of understanding such things, is dead on. Sunni's, excuse me, the Iraqi insurgency, complaing of ISF conduct is exactly like a thief complaining about being stolen from.

If you want to think I mean ALL Sunni's, well then I cant fix your racism and its your problem. But at least be consistent and complain about all blanket statements, not just ones that go against your agenda...





[edit on 1-12-2005 by skippytjc]



posted on Dec, 1 2005 @ 02:06 PM
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The kurds are a nation on their own, the Shiites and Sunni are the ones on the fight in the rest of Iraq.

US are even afraid to stand against the growing settlement of Kurds in the rich oil lands of the north in hopes to influence the 2007 elections.

But occurs US knows what the Kurds are set to accomplish moving their tribe to one particular area because so far US is not doing anything to stop them.

But when it comes to power US is backing up the Shiites because the rich oil lands that they dominate could be the answer to the oil privatization in Iraq and the door to American oil companies.

So yes Sunnis mean nothing and exterminating them is not an issue, US can always blame Tribal rivalry .

Yes Iraq is doing just fine, every time the Kurds have a problem with Arabs that have settlements in the lands that they are claiming for themselves, US immediately goes to the rescue, but no Kurds get arrested for their crimes.

Meanwhile Iraqi military none Kurdish are dying in the altercations too.

These are news that never reaches the regular media.

The Kurds are still planning on having their own country. Even if that means killing any Arabs that has been residence of the area.

They are building villages to move more Kurds to the lands that are not theirs and they have made very clear to the US that they will take Kirkuk and claim it for their own.

Yes Iraq is shaping very nicely under democracy; these friends are the struggles in the newly liberated Iraq.

I can not wait to see when US is going to stop the Kurds for invading and killing people in the land that is not theirs.

US are having more internal problems in Iraq that what the media and the Bush administration care to tell about.

It seems that the only tribe that the US is helping put in power is the shiites, because the kurds are getting ready to brake free if the elections do not go their way.

That will become another fiasco for the Bush administration.

www.washingtonpost.com...



posted on Dec, 1 2005 @ 02:08 PM
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Originally posted by deltaboy
uuuh yeah, they felt threaten by Iran in 1968 when the Baath party took power in Iraq. The CIA was supporting Iran until 1979 when the Shah was overthrown. Maybe you notice that the Baath party is linked with Syria decades ago? Makes you wonder. When the Iranians took over our embassy well thats game, and we decided to back the Iraqis against the Iranians. But since Saddam decided to invade Kuwait, we backed the Saudis and the Kuwaitis and it has been like that since then. Changing sides. Not divide and conquer. Remember we sided with the Soviet Union and then later on we became sworn enemies.

Basicly you are saying, that when the US Needs one Side, they Use it and when they do not need them anymore, they abandon it. They needed Saddam and they supported him. Then they did not need him anymore. Kuwait was always a part of Basra Province, just like Jerusalem was part of Palestine. But again, the WEST came and decided who gets what and where. In the case of Iraq Today, and the growing threat of Civil war it is the Divide & Conquer - you can't deny that.



posted on Dec, 1 2005 @ 05:48 PM
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Kuwait was always a part of Basra Province, just like Jerusalem was part of Palestine. But again, the WEST came and decided who gets what and where. In the case of Iraq Today, and the growing threat of Civil war it is the Divide & Conquer - you can't deny that.



Actually Jerusalem is a Corpus Separatum under UN administration until both parties can reach a final agreement, but currently under illegal occupation by the Israeli STATE in violation of nearly a hundred resolutions.



posted on Dec, 1 2005 @ 06:19 PM
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One Sunni group taking testimony from families in Baghdad said it had documented the death or disappearance of 700 Sunni civilians in the past four months.


Terrorists ? it clearly says civilians are being killed and in very basic terms this is a case of the US empowering ONE side of a battle and the Shiites using it to their advantage to kill the Sunni's. Where is the grey area here that has left room for ya'll to debate this ? smh


Originally posted by Souljah
Basicly you are saying, that when the US Needs one Side, they Use it and when they do not need them anymore, they abandon it.


That is exactly what I am seeing and that's what is happening it seems.


American officials, who are overseeing the training of the Iraqi Army and the police, acknowledge that police officers and Iraqi soldiers, and the militias with which they are associated, may indeed be carrying out killings and abductions in Sunni communities, without direct American knowledge.

Which is it? They are 'overseeing' the training, yet all these murders and disappearances of these men are happening 'without their knowledge' ?
Please, who are they trying to kid here ???

Despicable.

Souljah, excuse my ignorance on this but can U tell me why are the Iraqi security services Shiite's only ? Is this just how it is there or were these 'officers' picked for the Iraqi army the US military is 'overseeing' ?

Please school me because I find this very disturbing.



posted on Dec, 1 2005 @ 07:15 PM
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Originally posted by skippytjc
So, lets rephrase this:

The terrorists (almsot 100% Sunni) are claiming that the ISF are killing them


Isnt that like a thief complaining that somebody stole from them?


Funny stuff...



You have voted skippytjc for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.


Straight to the point, Skippy.
marg had it right, also, it is retribution, pure and simple. To expect the torture and murder of hundreds of thousands of Shia to go unpunished is wishful thinking.

It doesn't surprise me that the NYT tries to portray this as a one-sided affair, after all, they were silent when ditches full of machine-gunned Shias were found in the desert in the past.


[edit on 1-12-2005 by jsobecky]



posted on Dec, 3 2005 @ 08:03 AM
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Originally posted by ImJaded
Souljah, excuse my ignorance on this but can U tell me why are the Iraqi security services Shiite's only ? Is this just how it is there or were these 'officers' picked for the Iraqi army the US military is 'overseeing' ?

Please school me because I find this very disturbing.

It's all pretty Simple and also VERY Effective. US Generals and Strategics are not Stupid - they know, that they can not stand against United Iraq. So they use the Oldest trick in the book, since the Roman Empire: Divide Et Empera - Divide and Rule. It's much easier to control 3 smaller problems, then one BIG one, you know. It is a simple matter of Mathematics.

In politics and sociology, divide and rule (also known as divide and conquer) is a strategy of gaining and maintaining power by breaking up larger concentrations of power into chunks that individually have less power than the one implementing the strategy. In reality, it often refers to a strategy where small power groups are prevented from linking up and becoming more powerful, since it is difficult to break up existing power structures.

I hope that this will Explain a little bit, what kind of Strategy is Adopted in the Middle East. That's why Lebanon does not like Syria. And that's why Iraq and Iran were at War. Nobody want to see a United Middle East yet Again!



posted on Dec, 3 2005 @ 08:20 AM
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LOL, and te Kurds, Sunnis and Shiited would get along so well without the US there
Please stop deluding yourself, Iraq is just too tribal.



posted on Dec, 3 2005 @ 03:20 PM
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Originally posted by rogue1
LOL, and te Kurds, Sunnis and Shiited would get along so well without the US there
Please stop deluding yourself, Iraq is just too tribal.


Exactly . . . but when you ask any typical pro war American they have no clue as the difference of tribal society and its ramification.

US is selling to the American public an unified Iraq when its citizens are unwilling and ready to do just that.

For many is just all Iraqis and anybody that is against invasion is just terrorist.

It is worth to read more into what is going on between the different tribes.

One thing that is troublesome is the fact that so far Kurds has been doing their own thing outside the US and the Iraqi government and goal.

Right now the issue is been maintain as the Sunni against the Iraqi government like if the Sunnis was a completely entity outside Iraq.

If you feed enough of the evilness of the Sunnis most Americans will believed.

Shiites and Sunnis will never live and cohabited together in a happy groups they will always be separated by their tribal rivalry and they will always protect their territories.



posted on Dec, 3 2005 @ 03:35 PM
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The neo-cons weren't stupid, they knew this would eventually break down into a civil war with the best and brightest Americans caught right in the middle. Pawns in their bloody game of oil, profits, and power. It's time to stop the BS about "Iraqi Freedom"

In the beginning I thought I saw nobility in the ME persuits. Now it's just needless sacrifice of men and money for the Halliburtions of the world. The private contractors are making a killing at the expense of the American taxpayer. Remember $300 tolit seats and $660 hammers? This is chiken feed compared to the current rip offs perpatrated by those infavor with the 'elite" in the govt. and military.

The GAO will have years of investigations unless it is all covered up.



[edit on 3-12-2005 by whaaa]



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