Bravo to you, SkepticOverlord, for not allowing this can of spam to go unchallenged. There is no excusing or supporting this man for his large part in the Katrina Debacle. He could have been a hero, but instead turned out to be the biggest zero ever appointed due to political favoritism and cronyism.

I wasn't even going to give this thread an instant of my time, given the title and who posted it, until I saw that you had commented on it. You have sited all the pertinent examples to discredit this story, and have deftly avoided the 'GW is the antichrist' bait, which would have shifted the focus and created unnecessary backlash (which is what I think the member who posted this drivel was going for).

What's next from this shameless mouthpiece? A story about what a great U.S. Senator from Florida Katherine Harris would make? Has this guy had too much 'Miracle Water', or what?

[edit on 25-11-2005 by Icarus Rising]

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
I can't see how there's been any "success in the past" for Brown, nor how FEMA responded "pretty well" to the 2004 hurricanes in Florida.

I was unaware of the problems related to the 2004 storms. It was not national news. Based on the links you provided, however, it looks like in 2004 the problem was a little too much response and in 2005, it was a too little. I don't think that Brown brought red tape, incompetence, SNAFUs, and fraud to FEMA and I don't think it will be eradicated by his replacement. As I said earlier, what ails FEMA ails all government programs. You should take a close look at Medicaid fraud sometime.

[edit on 2005/11/26 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by Icarus Rising
I wasn't even going to give this thread an instant of my time, given the title and who posted it...

What's next from this shameless mouthpiece? A story about what a great U.S. Senator from Florida Katherine Harris would make? Has this guy had too much 'Miracle Water', or what?

I hold you in similar regard. Thanks for the fifty points.

It should also be remembered that when FEMA was shifted to Homeland Security, it took a hit in terms of its priority. I think that issue will bear greater scrutiny. It should also be remembered that no one can make these kinds of disasters "all better." That's why they are called disasters and not major inconveniences.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
I was unaware of the problems related to the 2004 storms.

Dude... first page of a simple Google search.

It was not national news.

It's been widely reported, but perhaps not in conservative-leaning sources.

Based on the links you provided, however, it looks like in 2004 the problem was a little too much response

You mean, Brownie using taxpayer money to buy votes in Florida? Yeah, that is too much, and an investigation seems to be under way.

I don't think that Brown brought red tape, incompetence, SNAFUs, and fraud to FEMA

Oh please. You may not "think" so, but given the information in some of the links I provided, a very large number of people do.

You should take a close look at Medicaid fraud sometime.

Why should we change subjects? Your initial story attempting to vindicate Bown seems rather inaccurate.

[edit on 26-11-2005 by SkepticOverlord]

Holy Cow, S.O.; I've never seen you screw up as bad as the last post before!

BB code kicking your butt??!!

I'm not concerned with your regard for me. What concerns me is the influence you have on those on this board who buy into what you say on certain political issues of great import. When I see it, I feel obligated to respond and point out what I consider to be the the flaws in your thinking (sorry, on these subjects I can't call it reasoning). It all started with the 'slogans on the gravestones' story for me, but it may go back to the original 'VA review of PTSD claims' story for you. I don't mind, and it doesn't matter.

You post a lot of great stories, and I respect you for that. It seems to me, and I could be wrong, that something (or someone) got to you back in mid-summer, and you went hard-over in support of the Bush administration. Or maybe I just hadn't noticed it up until then. I support ideals, not administrations. And certainly not inept cronies like Michael Brown.

Again, you have my respect, just not my agreement on certain political topics.

Peace to you, Grady.

[edit on 26-11-2005 by Icarus Rising]

Good job, S.O.! You fixed it.

Sorry, I never ever see you make a mistake so I had to have a bit of fun with it.

I'm not trying to vindicate Brown so much as I am acknowledging that he alone does not bear the blame for Katrina, if indeed there has to be blame. An enormous storm plowed into the Gulf coast and devastated Louisiana and Mississippi and in Mississippi the damage extended for perhaps a hundred miles inland or more.

In New Orleans, the levees were breeched and the city filled up like a bowl. St. Bernard Parish was wiped out. Plaquimines Parish fared no better. Moses could not have done much better, in my opinion. A stronger personality could have, perhaps, provided better leadership, but even then there could not have been amassed the kinds of resources needed in such a circumstance.

Brown was fired and publicly disgraced. His name is synonymous with incompetence. I don't know what else is appropriate. Should we revel in his misery? Should we revoke his citizenship? Send him to prison? Shall we stone him and his family to death? Whatever.

[edit on 2005/11/26 by GradyPhilpott]

Brown deserves some blame, and now he's out.

For some reason, Nagin still has HIS Job.
As does the Gov. , Kathleen Blanco
It's probably due to their extremely quick reaction time.
Or more aptly put, their Protective reaction time.

Those index fingers came out of the holster, faster than a
teflon six-shooter. POINT, POINT , POINT..

My ex used to call 'em 'comeuppins'. Brown is just getting his comeuppins. We all do eventually, don't we? I don't think he should be singled out, and I agree that Katrina was a disaster of biblical proportions. I'm sure he has learned some lessons from his mistakes, but I don't think he should be rewarded for them.

That's what this whole private consulting thing stinks of to me, some kind of pay-off for keeping his mouth shut about what went on in Florida in '04.

Watch him get indicted for his role in the criminal handling of Katrina's aftermath, then plead the fifth, or better yet, get an exemption from prosecution on National Security grounds.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
I'm not trying to vindicate Brown so much as I am acknowledging that he alone does not bear the blame for Katrina, if indeed there has to be blame.

Who else should be blamed (there has to be) but the head of the agency responsible for responding to catastrophic emergencies? He left a paper trail of inept indifference and political scandal. No amount of the disingenuous positive spin from you or other official party apologists will overcome that.

An enormous storm plowed into the Gulf coast and devastated Louisiana and Mississippi and in Mississippi the damage extended for perhaps a hundred miles inland or more.

Indeed. This is the rote "apologist line" we keep hearing. And this is very true. However, the agency for which Brown was charged could at least make the appearance of being prepared to respond to an overwhelming catastrophe. We can forgive a haphazard response if there was an obvious attempt to make a serious effort... but there was no such attempt.

In New Orleans, the levees were breeched and the city filled up like a bowl. St. Bernard Parish was wiped out. Plaquimines Parish fared no better. Moses could not have done much better, in my opinion.

And you describe the "disaster scenario" that has been mapped out in more than one study on the effects of a hurricane on the area. It was known what could happen, and the massive storm took days to arrive.

A stronger personality could have, perhaps, provided better leadership, but even then there could not have been amassed the kinds of resources needed in such a circumstance.

I'm sorry Grady, I admire your devoted tenacity, but this smells intensely of bovine excrement. Again, all that needed to happen to prevent this kind of post-catastrophe analysis was a visible effort... any effort.

His name is synonymous with incompetence.

As it should be.

Should we revel in his misery?

What about the misery of thousands he is personally responsible for either creating or making worse? I really think your original submission to ATSNN is an inaccurate attempt to spin positive something that cannot be. I'm very concerned that members of ATS would seek to do such a thing.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Michael Brown, former head of FEMA, who was relieved of his command during the Katrina disaster has started his own business of providing advice to clients on how to best prepare for catastrophes.

What an Ugly, Insidious TRAVESTY!