Let's put an end to ALL secret societies

Originally posted by Cug

Originally posted by peopledying

Leaders and Founders of Satanic Cults

Aliester Crowley, 33rd & 97th Degree Freemason, self proclaimed 666 Beast, taught human sacrafice, wicked Satan worshipper and master satanist of this century

Again another thing I know for a fact. Crowley was not a satan worshiper, and never taught human sacrifice. And he was never a member of regular freemasonery. He was a member of some irregular lodges.

hehehe

Crowley was part of the memphis misraim lodge, the same i am part of. I dont see how he could be 97th degree since the max one is 96, but it wouldnt surprise me that he invented the 97 just for him. This guy had an ego larger than england.

Crowley was far from being a satanist. Crowley was a magus, he researched and teaches ''magick''. His own definition of magick was ''the ability to create and modify events in accordance with the will''. Some ppl thinks he speaks with demons because he wrote a book under the chanelling of a entity called aiwass. Anyhow, i loved reading his books, he certainly writes in a particular style that is extremely funny to me. i particularly enjoy his book on egyptian tarot ''the book of thot'', which i am reading right now.

Crowley also was obsessed with sex and was a total pervert, hence why he excelled in modern sexual magick. when done with respect toward each other, it is pretty much the same thing as ''holy'' tantric sex, where an alchemy of the elements occur in the act of conscious coitus.

About wicca, i remember reading several of crowley biographies, including one written by his ''supposed'' son (no doubt that he had children all over the world, wether they where made of flesh of they where ethereal), his name is Amado crowley, and he claims to be the one who was with him at the abbey of thelema. So he claims that James garder, who possessed an uncanny ability into seducing women and tricking them to bed, and Crowley, who was a good friend of Garder, wrote The book of Shadows (wicca's foundation book) as a complete joke, mixing ''real stuff'' with utter BS like ''being naked in the forest at night and riding brooms (phallic symbols)''

Anyhow I admire crowley because he was a ''doer'' type. Instead of aimlessly talking about esoteric stuff all time, crowley was practicing empirically. all the time.

Anyways he didnt ''invented'' anything, everything is out there already. His magick and thelemic systems are nothing more than interweined concepts of gnostic / hermetic qaballah, hindu stuff like chakras and prana and kundalini, he was a follow of patanjali, fervent of yoga practices, Practicioner of ceremonial magick had described in the works of franz bardon, etc etc, nothing new under the sun. HP Blavatsky's theosophical society was similar, and the golden dawn too. all these initiatic / occult clubs and societies are based on the same general knowledge.

Except the way he did stuff is inspiring and i think it is an excellent ways for students of occultist schools to begin in the subject. His book on tarot, that i referred earlier in my post, is a complete and through course on qaballistic knowledge and symbolism, it is a more than excellent read.

[edit on 30-11-2005 by moonchild]

Cug, I don’t like you sowing confusion into something that is already confirmed by John Decamp, Ted Gunderson and many other investigators in the FBI and government. I also do not appreciate your attempting to belittle others by acting oh la-di, da-di da, we just have fun and everything is ok. Get real and understand that people can and will do horrible things in the name of selfishness!

You wrote:

Modern Satanists think Crowley was a wuss.

May be you think this is some kind of joke?

First of all, I could care less what so-called Satanists think and second, when an FBI investigator finds the symbols of Belial on the walls and the alter, and the shackles, and the dungeon, and the blood and candles, and the inverted pentagram and magic circle, and the dead bodies (like a little boy who was slowly skinned alive) and the evidence to support the usage of the lesser Keys of Solomon and books like Grimorium Verum, what the heck do think you know? Are you an expert just because you associate yourself with those who indulge in the passions of the perverted Thelma? Oh please! I have another book of Crowley in which he explains how to involve children in sex calling it rape and emancipation. If you persist, I will truly embarrass you and post it all here.

I said they use his book as a guide (Satanists use it and many others also) and they use the Grimorium Verum also to invoke elementals. I have this book, Cug. When you refer to Satanists you attempt to deliberately sow confusion into the readers here, as you know only too well that the definition of “Satanist” is a varied as are the lies propagated by Thelma followers such as yourself, no?

Satanists do and have used his works but not ONLY his. Stop distracting from the point in fact since I know that Aton Levy and other so-called Satanists have in fact copied Alistair Crowley’s work and unless you mange to conjure up some substantial OTHER alternative, than I suggest you knock it off.

Right! Don't let anyone tell you.. them us whoever.. look it up yourself! It's chapter 12 of Crowley's Magick in Theory and Practice (You can find it online). You should be able to see what markus overlooked. Crowley is talking about Sex Magick.. That's the "BIG Secret" he even mentions that he is not using the word sacrifice as it is commonly used, and he even warns the reader not to do it until they fully understands what it means.

Apparently, Alister Crowley would disagree with you:

From the book (which I own) written by the “sick-o” Alister Crowley called “Majic In Theory and Practice”:

Pg 92: starts off

CHAPTER XII
OF THE BLOODY SACRIFICE: AND MATTERS COGNATE.


Pg 94:

"It would be unwise to condemn as irrational the practice of those savages who tear the heart and liver from an adversary, and devour them while yet warm. In any case it was the theory of the ancient Magicians, that any living being is a storehouse of energy varying in quantity according to the size and health of the animal, and in quality according to its mental and moral character. At the death of the animal this energy is liberated suddenly.

The animal should therefore be killed within the Circle, or the Triangle, as the case may be, so that its energy cannot escape. An animal should be selected whose nature accords with that of the ceremony --- thus, by sacrificing a female lamb one would not obtain any appreciate quantity of the fierce energy useful to a Magician who was invoking Mars. In such a case a ram would be more suitable. And this ram should be virgin --- the whole potential of its original total energy should not have been diminished in any way. For the highest spiritual working one must accordingly choose that victim which contains the greatest and purest force. A male child of perfect innocence and high intelligence is the most satisfactory and suitable victim. "


I have both the eBook and the book from Amazon.com. Crowley used the word "victim". I noticed that the publishers have deliberately tried to imply that Alistair Crowley never meant to “really” kill a little boy but rather it has something to do with sex. I ask of ATS reader to read the publishers notes below and please decide for yourselves, just how sad an attempt this cover up is, by trying to hide the obvious truth which Crowley was referring to.

Before you read the first sentence in the Publisher below notice the lack of mercy in all of this so-called sacrifice!

Did Christ not say:

"Go and learn what this means, I desire mercy and not sacrifice. For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners" (Matt 9:13).



Publisher’s add-on:

It is a mistake to suppose that the victim is injured. On the contrary, this is the most blessed and merciful of all deaths, for the elemental spirit is directly built up into Godhead --- the exact goal of its efforts through countless incarnations. On the other hand, the practice of torturing animals to death in order to obtain the elemental as a slave is indefensible, utterly black magic of the very worst kind, involving as it does a metaphysical basis of dualism.

There is, however, no objection to dualism or black magic when they are properly understood. See the account of the Master Therion's Great Magical Retirement by Lake Pasquaney, where he "crucified a toad in the Basilisk abode".

What has Crowley got to do with this topic?
He was never a Mason and OTO is notFreemasonry.

We've documented the evidence time and time again regarding this subject here on ATS. The facts can't be argued with.

It seems to me that Marcus is committing his own cardinal sin and sidestepping issues, changing topic and creating smokescreens.

Originally posted by peopledying



Why is it so difficult to get the idea that you normal Masons may have no idea of what is going on higher up!!!

Because this "higher up" stuff is a myth only believed in by non-Masons. Every Master Mason in good standing has a right to be present and to have a voice in every meeting of the Grand Lodge. Secondly, each Grand Lodge Officer's authority is limited by the Grand Lodge Constitution, which is the basis of Masonic law.

Furthermore, Grand Lodge is strictly a representative body. In most Jurisdictions, each Lodge carries three votes at Grand Lodge. Certainly, the Grand Lodge may pass legislation and make decisions that an individual Lodge may disagree with, but the Lodge has its votes and say in the matter, regardless.

Why would you unless you are not "up there"? Do you really think you are privy to classified info..

By virtue of the Ancient Constitutions and Regulations of the Fraternity, there can be no "classified info". Every Master Mason who is dues-current has the right to either be present or reprersented at all meetings of the Masonic governing body (Grand Lodge).

]

Originally posted by peopledying
Don't get insulted. I'll take the blame for a sloppy term like "higher up"

I meant THIS kind of higher up:

The problem here is that most of the people you listed aren't even Masons, much less "higher up".

Bill Clinton, Senior Demolay (Masonic youth group)

This is correct. Clinton had been a DeMolay as a teenager. He never became a Mason.

Newt Gingrich, 33rd Degree Freemason

Newt Gingrich is not now, nor has he ever been, a Mason, much less 33°.

Bob Dole, 33rd Degree Freemason
Jack Kemp, 33rd Degree Freemason
Storm Thurmond, 33rd Degree Freemason

These three are correct.

Colin Powell, 33rd Degree Freemason, U.S. Secretary of State

Powell not a Mason.

Jesse Helms, 33rd Degree Freemason

Correct.

Barry Goldwater, 33rd Degree Freemason

Goldwater not a Mason.

Al Gore, Freemason

Sen. Al Gore, Sr. was a Mason. His son, former VP Al Gore, Jr., is not.

George Washington, James Monroe, Andrew Jackson, James Polk, James Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, James Garfield, William McKinley, Theodore Roosevelt, William Taft, Warren Harding, Franklin D. Roosevelt, Harry Truman, Lyndon Johnson, Gerald Ford, Ronald Reagan and George Bush were all Masonic Presidents of the U.S.A.

All are correct except for Reagan and Bush, neither of whom were ever Masons. The last President who was a Mason was Ford.

International Political Leaders

King Hussein, King of Jordan, deceased, 33rd Freemason

I have heard that King Hussein, and his son, the current King Abdullah, are Masons, but have not been able to verify.

Yitzak Rabin , assassinated leader of Israel
Yassar Arafat, leader of the PLO
Prince Phillip, British Royalty

None of the above were ever Masons.

Duke of Kent, British Royalty
Winston Churchhill, British Leader

Correct, both were Masons.

Religious Leaders

Billy Graham, World's most popular 'Christian' evangelist is a 33rd Degree Freemason

Graham has never been a Mason.

Norman Vincent Peale, 33rd Degree Freemason, ex Grand Chaplain of the Grand Lodge of New York, Past Grand Prelate of the Knights Templar and Shriner. (now deceased)

This is correct.

Robert Schuller, 33rd Degree Freemason, Pastor of the Crystal Cathedral and host of the popular "Hour of Power" television programme

Schuller was never a Mason.

Oral Roberts, 33rd Degree Freemason, founder of Oral Roberts University

Roberts is actually a strong anti-Mason. He's never been a Mason.

Jesse Jackson, 33rd Degree Prince Hall Freemason

This is correct.

Louis Farrahkan, leader of the Nation Of Islam

Farrahkan not a Mason.

Geoffrey Fisher, Archbishop of Canterbury 1945-1961

Correct.

Father Francisco Calvo, Jesuit Catholic priest who started Freemasonry in Costa Rica

It is true that Brother Calvo was instrumental in Freemasonry's formation in Costa Rica, but I have been unable to verify that he was a member of the Society of Jesus. It's possible, but seems unlikely.

G. Bromley Oxnam, 33rd Degree Freemason, friend of Billy Graham, head of the FCC churches

Oxnam was a bishop in the Methodist Church, famous for his writings. It is possible that he was a Mason, but I have not been able to verify it.

Mormons, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
Joseph Smith, founder of the Mormon cult
Hyrum Smith, brother of Joseph Smith
Brigham Young, 2nd leader of the Mormon cult

All of the above were Masons briefly, having been initiated irregularly in Nauvoo, Illinois. All were eventually expelled. The Mormon Endowment Ceremony was originally a whacked-out plagiarism of Masonic ceremony. Smith once wrote that "Just as Christianity is the apostate religion, so is Freemasonry the apostate Endowment," a statement which shows his disdain for the fraternity.

Sidney Rigdon, early Mormon
Heber C. Kimball, wished that all men were Freemasons
Spencer Kimball , closet Freemason, grandchild of Herber, friend of Norman Vincent Peale

The first two were possibly Masons, but Spencer was not (nor is there any such thing as a "closet Freemason"). Mormonism soon became very anti-Masonic, as Mormons generally view Masonry as a corruption and profanation of priesthood endowment.

Two of the World's largest international banking dynasties namely the Rothschilds and the Rockefeller family are both Masonic families. Their combined wealth is incalculable. (much more research is in progress and this list will be added to)

There's no such thing as a "Masonic family".

Aliester Crowley, 33rd & 97th Degree Freemason, self proclaimed 666 Beast, taught human sacrafice, wicked Satan worshipper and master satanist of this century

None of the above is correct. Crowley was originally a Christian, then converted to Buddhism, and then started a new religion called Thelema, loosely based on a combination of Hinduism, Theosophy, and Egyptian mythology. He did not teach literal human sacrifice, nor was he a satanist. He did not believe in Satan, nor in other doctrines of Christianity.

Crowley became a Mason irregulary in France in 1904. His membership was not recognized in regular Lodges, and he was refused admission into a regular Lodge when he returned to England. He received only the Blue Lodge Degrees, with all the other degrees he claimed being spurious.

Gerald B. Gardner, founder of the modern Wiccan (white witchcraft) revival
Dr. Wynn Westcott, member of the Societas Rosicruciana and founding member of the occult Order of the Golden Dawn

Gardner was an Entered Apprentice only. He never became a Master Mason. Westcott was indeed a Mason, and associate of A.E. Waite and the great poet William Butler Yeats, both of whom were also members of the Golden Dawn.

Helena Petrovna Blavatsky, female co-freemason, wicked satanist

Blavatsky had been a member of the Rite of Adoption. She didn't see what all the fuss was about, and never became an active member in the Rite. To call her a "wicked satanist", is, of course, laughable. Her religious beliefs were basically those of a Buddhist.

Rich DeVos, 33 Degree Freemason, founder of the Amway Corporation

Unable to verify.

Franz Anton Mesmer, practiced Mesmerism which led to Hypnotism

Correct, although mermerism did not lead to hypnotism.

George Bush, 33rd Degree Freemason, ex-president of the USA, ex-director of the CIA

Bush was never a Mason.

J. Edgar Hoover, 33rd Degree Freemason, Director of the FBI

Correct.

Walt Disney, founder of the Disney Corporation

Disney had been a DeMolay member, but never became a Mason.

Giuseppe Mazzini, Italian Illuminati leader, friend of Albert Pike, founder of the Mafia

Mazzini was a Mason, but of course he was not an "illuminati leader", nor did he found, or ever become a member of, the Mafia. There is no evidence that he ever met Albert Pike.

Now you see why serious researchers are hesitant about using conspiracy theorists as sources. Some of the stuff they say has some truth in it, but it's so garbled with error that the whole is contaminated.

Actually I believe Prince Philip may have been initiated but not progressed beyond that point. Either way, he's not active.

The Duke of Kent, of course, is very active. But to suggest either he or Prince Philip hold any kind of political power is laughable and displays a shocking ignorance of British politics.

Originally posted by Trinityman
Actually I believe Prince Philip may have been initiated but not progressed beyond that point. Either way, he's not active.

Ditto. I second that. I believe he was initiated whilst serving with the Royal Navy.

Originally posted by Leveller


Ditto. I second that. I believe he was initiated whilst serving with the Royal Navy.

This may be the case. I remember reading in an issue of Ars Quatuor Coronati that he was not a Mason and that the story was apocryphal, although he may have been initiated since then.

Originally posted by peopledying
I was reading Jim Shaw's account of his 33 degree experience:

[snipped Jim Shaw excerpt]

Now I will here all the reason Jim Shaw is not to be listened to probably.

No, there's only one reason. He's a liar.

www.srmason-sj.org...

Originally posted by Trinityman
No, there's only one reason. He's a liar.

www.srmason-sj.org...

That sums it up nicely.





Mod Edit: big quote

[edit on 30-11-2005 by kinglizard]

Please lets get this thread back on topic.

Thanks Everyone...

Originally posted by kinglizard
Please lets get this thread back on topic.

Thanks Everyone...

OK.

I would suggest that the banning of secret societies (thats the 'real' secret societies, not freemasonry which of course isn't secret) would be quite illegal under a democracy. It would require a draconian, fascist approach, imitative of Big Brother, which many people on this forum (on both sides of the argument) would find utterly abhorrent.

Anyway, you'd just force them underground

How can you ban a true 'secret society' anyway? If it's actually secret then you won't know it exists to ban it..

Not to mention.. I don't know if anyone has mentioned this because I didn't want to read 8 pages of drivel. But YOU TOO are welcome to start YOUR OWN secret society and get tax exempt status if you do good work for people in your local community. Its gaurrentted by this little thing called the Bill of Rights. But I guess since you Americans don't seem to care to much for it these days anyways, its not surprising to find out that some of the younger ones don't even realise that the right to secretly gather is important to have a free and functioning society.

Stopping people from gathering and keeping secrets with each other is basically the first step to facisist totalitarianisim.

Remember, that the first Christians had to hide from the authorities and keep secrets that they were Christians and meet secretly. Are you suggesting that if they were doing that in this present day that we should stop them from doing so? What about ATS? There are secret message boards hidden from regular users so what about them? Should we disallow people from meeting privately online too? What about large families with familiy secrets? How do they fit in to your goosestepping plan?


BTW the last guy I knew who was ACTUALLY a real Mason (went to the meetings, had the t-shirt and everything), was a full blown crack head and heroin addict, and was completely insane to boot (once barracaded himself in his apartment while high after attacking his dope fiend girlfriend - took a swat team and a taser to get him out). Oh yeah, they keep a real close eye on who they let in to that little club (lol).


Maybe that is what their secret is perhaps? That all their fund rasing money just goes to getting them all wasted?


So, I'm sorry I don't understand really what your problem is with these guys, it seems like a bit of a "they won't let me in their club" kinda thing to me actually.. quite funny.


-VMX

in order to stop secret societies, we would have to form a secret police to infertrated them. So we would destroy secret societies by forming a new one.

[edit on 30-11-2005 by lost in the midwest]

Originally posted by Vis Mega
Maybe that is what their secret is perhaps? That all their fund rasing money just goes to getting them all wasted?

This type of baiting/flaming post is NOT allowed. Please if you can't contribute to this forum without these little jabs don't contribute.

Make no mistake...this warning goes for both sided of the coin.

Originally posted by markusjharper
Cug, I don’t like you sowing confusion into something that is already confirmed by John Decamp, Ted Gunderson and many other investigators in the FBI and government.

My responce would be offtopic so I started a new thread.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by peopledying

Now you see why serious researchers are hesitant about using conspiracy theorists as sources. Some of the stuff they say has some truth in it, but it's so garbled with error that the whole is contaminated.

Thanks for the review. Where do you get your information? It seems it would be pretty unlikely for anyone to know all these men's lives intimately so I assume you may have so internal Masonic lists to draw from? Refering me to masonicinfo.com is not conclusive as it is pro-Masonic. What is an independent source I could look at?

How about the Wikipedia list, do you find a higher accuracy rate there?

Billy Graham
According to the official Billy Graham Evangelistic Assocaiation webpage Billy Graham recieved the
"The Torch of Liberty Plaque by the Anti-Defamation League of B'nai B'rith, 1969"
This a from a site talking about the B'nai B'rith which I would like to know more about.

I first heard about the Masonic B'nai B'rith connection thru Texe Marrs (Christian again).

Originally posted by peopledying
Refering me to masonicinfo.com is not conclusive as it is pro-Masonic. What is an independent source I could look at?

You won't find a more conclusive site than masonicinfo.com.
The guy who runs that site knows his onions and he gets correspondence from Freemasons around the world. If there is any mistake made in it's pages, it is soon rectified - Freemasons tend to be sticklers for the detail. As for your statement that it is pro-Masonic? Nope, it's truthful. Big difference.

As for other sites? If you don't want to visit sites that have been put up by Freemasons themselves, remember that others can only look from the outside in. The Masonic sites have the most up to date info and are largely accurate.
My advice is to stay right away from any site that has conspiracy in it's name if you are looking for fact. For example - www.masonsandnwo.com would not be a site which I would give much credibility to.

Some universities do have good sites on the subject.
www.brad.ac.uk... is worth a look.
www.freemasons-freemasonry.com... (this site is a very good international site as a whole).
freemasonry.dept.shef.ac.uk...

A good extensive list can be found here:

web.mit.edu...

edited to add:
masons.start4all.com...

One of my favourite starting points when searching for Masonic info.

[edit on 30-11-2005 by Leveller]

Originally posted by markusjharper
Cug, I don’t like you sowing confusion into something that is already confirmed by John Decamp, Ted Gunderson and many other investigators in the FBI and government........

That was it Markus, Ted Gunderson, when I made the reference to ex head of LA FBI. I watched that chilling video where the blonde lady assistant gave her chilling personal story where her children where victims of Satanic ritual abuse thanks to her sicko husband. When she pushed for conviction she ran into blocks and eventuall the FBI (I think) took away all she owned. The creepy thing is I lived once in that town on the cliffside where the satanists burned the house where they were taking childern after they were found out. I think I know which foundation it is but have not been back there.


I wonder if these folks will stand up for La Vey as well. So bizarre they let him run around at the Presidio, what is he, 7th Army psy ops?


Other people I have drawn from on contemporary issues:

The ex Drug Inforcement guy was MICHAEL C. RUPPERT
www.fromthewilderness.com...
On November 15, 1996, I stood at a town hall meeting at Locke High School in Los Angeles and said to Director of Central Intelligence John Deutch, "I am a former Los Angeles Police narcotics detective. I worked South Central Los Angeles and I can tell you, Director Deutch, emphatically and without equivocation, that the Agency has dealt drugs in this country for a long time." I then referred Director Deutch to three specific Agency operations known as Amadeus, Pegasus and Watchtower.


Kay Griggs, well connected wife of former Marine Colonel. Colonel Griggs was a Marine Corps Chief of Staff, as well as head of NATO's Psychological Operations. He was also, his wife realized, entirely mind-controlled. Kay, a self-declared Christian, became privy to the real workings of the United States military, leadership training, drug-running and weapons sales, and the secret worldwide camps that train professional assassins.Two videos spilling the beans on a lot of top military and people such as pervert pedophile Kissinger.


Catherine Fitts, the one who was hired to clean up HUD exposes, like M Ruppert, the 500 billion of drug money that is laundered through wall street and the black economy and raping of the treasury by Carlsye group et al.

Jim Marrs, Rule by Secrecy.

Texe Marrs video where I first found out about the Zionist/Masonic connection and The issues sourrounding the Temple Mount.

Bill Schnoebelen about Satanism in the Mormon church.

Fritz Springmier about so much hard to imagine.

Alex Jones