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yellow & gold fringed flags

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posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 03:21 PM
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Can you shed some light on this then?




"The flag of the United States shall be thirteen horizontal stripes, alternating red and White; and the union of the flag shall be forty eight stars, white in a blue field. " 61 Stat. 642, July 30,1947, ch. 389. 4 U.S.C.A.1. This describes the civil flag of the United States, as it is to be flown in the District of Columbia, its enclaves and overseas on ships and embassies.

Currently, the Flag of the united States of America is defined as :

The American Flag of Peace of the united States of America is described as red, white and blue, with thirteen alternating red and white horizontal stripes, and a blue field (union) with 50 stars, one to represent each of the several States. The Flag is proportional, (1 X 1.9) . This proportion is easily determined by measuring the length (fly) and dividing by the measurement of the width (hoist). The length divided by the width should be very nearly 1.9. If the flag is not to the correct 1 X 1.9 proportion, it is not an official Title 4 U.S.C. 1, 2 American Flag of Peace of the united States of America.

Title 4 U.S.C. 1, 2 and Presidential Executive Order 10834, found in the Federal Register at Vol. 24. No. 166, P.6365 - 6367.

Title 4 U.S.C. 3 provides that anything put on the title 4 U.S.C., 1, 2 American Flag such as gold fringe MUTILATES the Flag and carries a one-year prison term. This is confirmed by the authority of title 36 U.S.C. 176 (g). The gold fringe is a fourth color and represents "color of military law" jurisdiction and when placed on the title 4 U.S.C. 1, 2 Flag, mutilates the Flag and suspends the Constitution. (Refer to title 18 U.S.C. 242, see Black's Law Dictionary).

As provided by title 36 U.S.C. 173 and Army Regulation 840-10, chapter 2-1(b), the Flag of the united States of America is defined and described in title 4 U.S.C. 1, 2. Civilians must use the title 4 U.S.C. 1, 2 Flag (see title 36 U.S.C. 173 and Army Regulation 840-10, chapter 2-7) and when military flags are displayed by Army Regulation 840-10, chapter 2 and title 36 U.S.C. 175.




posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 03:26 PM
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Yes. As I said, the text referring to the "gold fringe" is completely made up. See the real Executive Order 10834, on a .gov website.

www.archives.gov...

Do you see any "gold fringe" allowances in the official version of Executive Order 10834? No, you don't, because someone invented that text for the Internet urban legend version of the order.

Zip

[edit on 11/21/2005 by Zipdot]



posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 03:32 PM
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To add: here is the text of 4 USC 3. "Fringes" around the flag are not covered by this code. It mostly refers to advertisements that include additions to the flag, like company logos or whatever.



Any person who, within the District of Columbia, in any manner, for exhibition or display, shall place or cause to be placed any word, figure, mark, picture, design, drawing, or any advertisement of any nature upon any flag, standard, colors, or ensign of the United States of America; or shall expose or cause to be exposed to public view any such flag, standard, colors, or ensign upon which shall have been printed, painted, or otherwise placed, or to which shall be attached, appended, affixed, or annexed any word, figure, mark, picture, design, or drawing, or any advertisement of any nature; or who, within the District of Columbia, shall manufacture, sell, expose for sale, or to public view, or give away or have in possession for sale, or to be given away or for use for any purpose, any article or substance being an article of merchandise, or a receptacle for merchandise or article or thing for carrying or transporting merchandise, upon which shall have been printed, painted, attached, or otherwise placed a representation of any such flag, standard, colors, or ensign, to advertise, call attention to, decorate, mark, or distinguish the article or substance on which so placed shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and shall be punished by a fine not exceeding $100 or by imprisonment for not more than thirty days, or both, in the discretion of the court. The words “flag, standard, colors, or ensign”, as used herein, shall include any flag, standard, colors, ensign, or any picture or representation of either, or of any part or parts of either, made of any substance or represented on any substance, of any size evidently purporting to be either of said flag, standard, colors, or ensign of the United States of America or a picture or a representation of either, upon which shall be shown the colors, the stars and the stripes, in any number of either thereof, or of any part or parts of either, by which the average person seeing the same without deliberation may believe the same to represent the flag, colors, standard, or ensign of the United States of America.


Zip

[edit on 11/21/2005 by Zipdot]



posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 04:15 PM
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Sec. 24. (a) The Secretary of Defense in respect of procurement
for the Department of Defense (including military colors) and the
Administrator of General Services in respect of procurement for
executive agencies other than the Department of Defense may, for
cause which the Secretary or the Administrator, as the case may be,
deems sufficient, make necessary minor adjustments in one or more
of the dimensions or proportionate dimensions prescribed by this
order, or authorize proportions or sizes other than those
prescribed by section 3 or section 21 of this order.





Sec. 2. The positions of the stars in the union of the flag and
n the union jack shall be as indicated on the attachment to this
order, which is hereby made a part of this order.

Sec. 3. The dimensions of the constituent parts of the flag shall
conform to the proportions set forth in the attachment referred to
in section 2 of this order.

Sec. 21. The following sizes of flags are authorized for
executive agencies:


Size Dimensions of Flag

Hoist Fly
(width) (length)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Feet Feet
(1) 20.00 38.00
(2) 10.00 19.00
(3) 8.95 17.00
(4) 7.00 11.00
(5) 5.00 9.50
(6) 4.33 5.50
(7) 3.50 6.65
(8) 3.00 4.00
(9) 3.00 5.70
(10) 2.37 4.50
(11) 1.32 2.50
--------------------------------------------------------------------


So what do they mean by "military colors"? I'm just trying to understand.....

[edit on 21-11-2005 by CogitoErgoSum1]



posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 04:44 PM
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According to the dictionary, here is definition number five of the word "color":



5 colors A flag or banner, as of a country or military unit.


Here is an example of the 4th Regiment Infantry Colors:



Hope this helps.

Zip

[edit on 11/21/2005 by Zipdot]



posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 05:34 PM
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So am I to understand that flags with gold trim are used for display, indoors or parades?




Type: Nylon | Kind: Indoor/Parade
Item: #21800 | Fringed USA Flags | 5x8' $ 139.90
USA Flags 5x8' made in USA,heavyweight nylon, embroidered stars, lock stiched,hand sewn stripes,helms, flannel-lined pole heading, velcro tabs,gloden fringe

Type: Nylon | Kind: Indoor/Parade
Item: #21500 | Fringed USA Flags | 3x5' $ 69.90
USA Fringed Flags 3x5', made in USA, high gloss, densely embroidered stars, lock-stitched, hand sewn stripes and hems. Finished with flannel lined pole heading, velcro tabs, golden fringe.


link








Gold Fringe on the Flag
Gold fringe frequently decorates the Flag of the United States, but it has no known record of symbolism and no meaning in national or international protocol.

Fringe has long and frequently been used on military and organizational flags; it remains an embellishment without meaning. It is purely a decorative and optional addition.

The Flag Code makes no reference to the use of fringe, cord and tassel, and no law or regulation either requires or prohibits the placing of gold fringe on the flag.

linkage



Is it safe to assume we can put this topic to rest?


Great place this ATS.....





[edit on 21-11-2005 by CogitoErgoSum1]



posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 05:59 PM
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Originally posted by Zipdot
Yes. As I said, the text referring to the "gold fringe" is completely made up. See the real Executive Order 10834, on a .gov website.

www.archives.gov...

Do you see any "gold fringe" allowances in the official version of Executive Order 10834? No, you don't, because someone invented that text for the Internet urban legend version of the order.


Did you even bother reading through it, and the note at the bottom?

It jumps from section 3 right to section 21.

The order as shown here is not complete.

At the bottom of the page it says:


Editorial note: The attachment detailing the proportions of the constituent parts of the flag, which was attached to and made a part of Executive Order 10834, is printed in 3 CFR, 1959-1963 Comp., p. 368.


I have never managed to find an internet source for the missing 18 sections detailing the parts of the flag.

It is still at undetermined status here, not urban legend as you would like to believe.

Explain why the parts are missing, and why you can't find them, and you will help this conspiracy expand.

BTW- I have been through this same discussion many times before, and I know where it ends up, but don't expect me to do anything other than wrench the wheel from your hands now-n-then.



posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 06:09 PM
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PART I - DESIGN OF THE FLAG
Section 1. The flag of the United States shall have thirteen
horizontal stripes, alternate red and white, and a union consisting
of white stars on a field of blue.
Sec. 2. The positions of the stars in the union of the flag and
in the union jack shall be as indicated on the attachment to this
order, which is hereby made a part of this order.
Sec. 3. The dimensions of the constituent parts of the flag shall
conform to the proportions set forth in the attachment referred to
in section 2 of this order.

PART II - REGULATIONS GOVERNING EXECUTIVE AGENCIES
Sec. 21. The following sizes of flags are authorized for
executive agencies:


Once again I friggn love this site!



posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 08:36 PM
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Originally posted by ArchAngel
The flag that you think is the real American flag is in fact the Flag of Martial Law.

The Gold Fringe represents a military court.

The tassels denote an Admiralty court.

GET THAT GOLD FRINGE OFF MY FLAG

This is the real American Flag:



The United States Civil Flag of Peacetime

Your world has been turned upside down right in front of your eyes and no one tells you because anyone that understands benefits from it all.

www.wealth4freedom.com...


If you wake one day, and see this flag flying where the old military flag used to be you will know that we finally won, and the STATE lost.



posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 10:36 PM
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That's fine and dandy, but there ARE no "missing sections." The EO was enacted as we see it. Perhaps some sections were struck from a rough draft before the EO was enacted. Take it or leave it. You can verify this by going to your local law library or ordering copies of the USCs and EOs you want to view from here:



Superintendent of Documents
U.S. Government Printing Office
P.O. Box 371954
Pittsburgh, PA 15250-7954


Zip

EDIT: Oh, yeah, you can view the attachment to the order in many places on the web. Here's one place.

There is nothing to these urban legends. Why persist in believing in an urban legend after it has been exposed as a fraud? Focus on real issues!

[edit on 11/21/2005 by Zipdot]



posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 11:53 PM
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I cannot figure some of you out.

We are faced with an out-of-control foreign policy, we are giving up our historical leadership in engineering, science, and technology to the Chinese and Indians, our balance of trade is in the toilet, we're borrowing ourselves into either bankruptcy or hyperinflation, our rights are being eroded by the Unpatriotic Act....

...and you keep going on and on about a bogus urban myth about gold fringes on flags, flags with vertical stripes, and other complete silliness.

I swear to God, people, this flag thingie is right up there with the "chem-trails", the "hollow Earth", and the "shape-shifting reptoids"!



posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 11:58 PM
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I've heard these arguements before and I still honestly fail to see how having gold trim on a flag changes the law. I fail to see what law states that admirality law applies when that flag is flown.


The horizontal flag is just a customs flag. Congress made the normal flag the one flown on military bases and elsewhere. Obviously they would'nt have cared about whether or not the public choose to fly one flag or another, flags are nationalistic items, the Founders weren't trying to make a Nation.

This is the older starless version of the customs flag


It has no legal meaning. It is just a flag. It became a custom, a fad amoung people during this time to have 'martial' flags with horizontal strips and 'civilian' ones with vertical stripes, not the law.

This is the current coast guard flag.

Do you suggest that the coast guard is somehow 'not' under this insidious and omnipresent dictatorship?

Here is a flag history site's take on it:




  • From the standpoint of history and law, fringe on a flag has no symbolism. While each individual is free to interpret the meaning of fringe, it has no inherent or established universal symbolism
  • Fringe is and always has been a purely decorative addition -- an optional enhancement of the beauty of a flag, added on a discretionary basis when the flag is purchased
  • Title Four of the "United States Code" which defines the Stars and Stripes neither prescribes nor proscribes the use of cords and tassels, heading, sleeve, fringe, and other accessories to the flag
  • Admiralty courts deal only with maritime contracts, collisions at sea, and similar naval questions, not with normal civil and criminal cases. There is no symbol in the United States which indicates an admiralty court. While international treaties require that ships display the national flag, maritime flags never have fringe.


  • And another person notes:

    military regulations [but not the law] DO prescribe the use of a yellow fringe for the National Flag of the U.S. In the Army, the National Flag with fringe added is termed the *National Color*. This National Color is intended to be displayed indoors or carried on parade, usually with other military colors (also fringed). The fringe, so used, is a military tradition derived from British practice.
    [comment in italics added]


    Also

    In their official forms, the state flags of Idaho, Louisiana, Maine, Minnesota, Mississippi, North Dakota, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Utah and Wisconsin all have yellow fringes.

    So are these also states under state martial law?



    posted on Nov, 22 2005 @ 08:07 AM
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    There is also a PTS thread on this, for anyone intersted in reading it.
    politics.abovetopsecret.com...



    posted on Nov, 22 2005 @ 01:05 PM
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    this website can answer most of your questions.

    patriot-publications.com...



    [edited big quote, please try to limit the sizes of quotes -nygdan]


    [edit on 22-11-2005 by Nygdan]



    posted on Nov, 22 2005 @ 02:30 PM
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    I have a question, who elects judges for the Supreme Court and the state courts? Wouldn’t the people just like the rest of our elected officials elect a judge governing law for the state or country? Maybe I am looking too much into this, but as I recollect Supreme Court judges are appointed by the President and state judges are appointed by the state governors. I guess I could pose the question that since I am a civilian I have no authority to elect a military judge, which one would be if we were truly under maritime law. An example of the judge/s being the ultimate authority and not the constitution would be the newly passed imminent domain law that states the state or government can come into your house and take your property, as far as I know this is completely unconstitutional. Would this not be an example of maritime law?


    [edit on 22-11-2005 by CogitoErgoSum1]



    posted on Nov, 22 2005 @ 03:16 PM
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    There are a lot of other threads that discuss issues about the Patriot Acts and whatnot, so I'll avoid that question. As for the President's ability to appoint Federal Supreme Court judges, well, that is one of the necessary checks and balances between the three branches of government.

    Zip



    posted on Nov, 22 2005 @ 06:54 PM
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    But I am asking that since the court deemed it legal to take someone’s property away (imminent domain) even though I believe it states in the constitution this is not allowable, wouldn’t that be a show of maritime law, the judge/s having the ultimate authority and not bound by constitutional law?




    No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.





    The third prohibits the government from using private homes as quarters for soldiers without the consent of the owners. The fourth guards against unreasonable searches, arrests, and seizures of property.





    No free man shall be arrested, or imprisoned, or deprived of his property, or outlawed, or exiled, or in any way destroyed, nor shall we go against him or send against him, unless by legal judgement of his peers, or by the law of the land.


    I am not a Supreme Court judge, but it seems to me that allowing a private business to displace residents in favor of a ballpark or mall would be unconstitutional. Would this not prove that the judge or judges have ultimate authority, by condition of maritime law?

    [edit on 22-11-2005 by CogitoErgoSum1]



    posted on Nov, 22 2005 @ 07:39 PM
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    Originally posted by CogitoErgoSum1
    I am not a Supreme Court judge, but it seems to me that allowing a private business to displace residents in favor of a ballpark or mall would be unconstitutional. Would this not prove that the judge or judges have ultimate authority, by condition of maritime law?


    No. Due process of law has taken place. Displaced citizens are compensated for their property.

    Zip



    posted on Nov, 22 2005 @ 07:51 PM
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    Originally posted by CogitoErgoSum1
    Wouldn’t the people just like the rest of our elected officials elect a judge governing law for the state or country?

    Yeah, but look at how that's turned out.

    Also keep in mind that federal Senators used to be appointed by the governor of a state. The Founders explicitly wanted to avoid a Democracy.


    An example of the judge/s being the ultimate authority and not the constitution would be the newly passed imminent domain law

    The Judges have to interpret other laws in light of the Constitution. They don't trump it.



    as far as I know this is completely unconstitutional. Would this not be an example of maritime law?

    No, because the civilian judges make a legal decision based on the constitution. Under martial law, a general would declare by fiat that so and so's land was now the property of the state.



    posted on Nov, 22 2005 @ 07:53 PM
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    Compensated on whose terms the terms of the court/judge? What if the resident doesn’t want to sell his property? Speaking of compensation, if tracks of homes are taken by means of imminent domain and residents are paid for “fairness” sake, market value to build a ballpark, what happens to the property value of the remaining tracks of homes, does it no increase substantially? Is that fair to the residents who were forced to leave their properties if not the fact they were forcibly removed at least in compensational terms?



    Thanks for the responses by the way, im not trying to argue points, just understand why things are the way they are.



    [edit on 22-11-2005 by CogitoErgoSum1]



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