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How does a person avoid hell?

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posted on Nov, 7 2005 @ 05:58 PM
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Originally posted by AkashicWanderer
I never mentioned aliens or Jesus.


Sorry AW, I wasn't trying to imply you had mentioned those. The comment I made was just a summary of the unique themes floating around in this thread.




posted on Nov, 7 2005 @ 06:25 PM
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Originally posted by I See You
The reality is that their is no reality of hell or do you think that you know otherwise?


iseeyou,
from what i've read, and what i've come to understand, if God were to give mankind a 'glimpse' of hell, men would then modify their behavior out of fear and only to avoid it... thus eliminating the 'free will' aspect. if you have no belief in God, in Jesus, hell, free will or otherwise, then you are certainly welcome to voice your opposing view, but please be respectful...

i believe japike geniunely wants and seeks answers, and the answers he/she looks for have come from a source that you personally don't accept... but wouldn't it be more appropriate to let the person be directed to those answers and form his or her own opinion?

let's say you didn't believe in something like.... screws. you would have no use for a screwdriver, and would likely tell others that having one is useless and pointless. you have found additional, just as effective in your opinion, methods of fastening things together. well, japike here REALLY wants to pull some things together- some people here have information which they have found useful... and unfortunately, it contradicts your basic belief- or rather unbelief- you may have spent your entire life perfecting 'other methods' of going about the same process....but others have handed him the tools and are giving him the opportunity to try them out for himself... you can expect that after he's used the tools, he might agree (or disagree) that it makes sense- is easier- and he feels better about it...

a belief in judgement following death as the Bible describes it must be preceded by belief in God. If you've skipped that intitial stage, then concepts like hell, sin, or judgement are meaningless and useless to you outside of that context. while your opinion is just as valid as anyone else's here, you might find that making the battle 'personal' and attacking another member for their beliefs doesn't strengthen your stance or make your points stronger.

if the reality really IS that there is no hell, make a valid argument to prove it- and keep your focus there.... anyway, this was not intended to be offensive or critical, i was only hoping to encourage you to use this forum to share your views and your voice!! don't let it become a boxing match, let it be your opportunity to help others to understand why you feel the way you do about the issue ... i'd prefer reading posts like that anyway!!

~amithyzt



posted on Nov, 7 2005 @ 06:31 PM
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Originally posted by I See You
You probably think that you "do" know considering you think you know everything else. But that's just your nature I guess. How is it ignorance not to believe? It is just as ignorant to believe in such. When you can comprehend that such things may not exist then you will be on your way of denying gnorance not just adding to it.


Were those comments and questions directed at me?

EDIT: Great post amithyzt.

[edit on 7/11/2005 by AkashicWanderer]



posted on Nov, 7 2005 @ 06:45 PM
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No that was not directed at you and amithyzt that quote was not directed at the thread starter. Yes we all have the opportunity to voice our opinions and I did. We have different views which is wonderful because if we didn't then we would go nowhere in life.



posted on Nov, 7 2005 @ 07:04 PM
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first of all, thank you AW.... (nice tah meetcha)

iseeyou, i realized your quote was directed at someone else somewhere along the way. i actually had to scroll up because i'd missed it- there had been many other posts made before you replied and i was puzzled by the attitude not remembering any exchanges becoming heated... but i've read so much lately, all the threads are really beginning to run together!


original quote by I SEE YOU:
We have different views which is wonderful because if we didn't then we would go nowhere in life.


our differences have succeeded in bringing all of us here to exchange information, but that will only get us somewhere if we are able to take and learn from others.... i would hate to see anger prevent you from gaining something valuable along the way... (good tah meet you as well)

~amithyzt



posted on Nov, 7 2005 @ 10:44 PM
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Originally posted by amithyzt
iseeyou,
from what i've read, and what i've come to understand, if God were to give mankind a 'glimpse' of hell, men would then modify their behavior out of fear and only to avoid it... thus eliminating the 'free will' aspect.


Simply because you know the consequences does not mean you can no longer choose. You need information to make informed choices, unless this life is just some sort of test, in which case the concept of hell is pointless.

Unless I know it's real, hell provides no deterence. Since it's eternal, it also does not provide reform. It's just a sadistic act of vengeance on the part of god.



posted on Nov, 8 2005 @ 01:05 AM
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thanks so much everyone for helping me have a better understanding of this. I think it has been a wide range of recent happenings that has made me think about it more so than ever. Plus when I look around about all the death that happens in the world I get a little scared to be honest. I wonder if it could happen to me at any time. I mean Katrina,India Floods, the quake in Kasmir,etc etc It just seems like so much is happening and it scares me. A lot of people beloive it is just natural events but there are just so so many, than with the war it seems like the US becomes a bigger enemy to everyone day by day. Which may not be my problems but if something bad happens here I guess it would be all of our problems. Anyway not to ramble but my thoughts about hell/heaven just have me so lost at times. My biggest thought was thinking about some kids backs east I grew up with they were raised in terrible situations and they all kind of followed the path that was layed before them by the actions of parents well I was in a similar direction but when things got really close to the edge I felt I was looking my biggest fears in the eyes. One being death I had seen some people die around my age and it scared me for a long time. I developed a large fear of it and what is after death. I left the state I was in to get away from my old life but I still think about it when I see things happening to other people and the fact I have ignored it happening to other people for so long until it is in my face with all the events on tv.

So one of the points I should finsih is what about the people that don't know any better? I mean like the kids I was raised around are perfect example. I seen the parents do bad stuff and the children led up to do the same thing in many cases. In the end how can they be judged like a person that knows better? I mean assuming there is an actual hell/afterlife etc.

With that said yes I like all of us really want to know what is beyond this. I mean I struggle with finding any real faith cause I fear I question everything that is what led me to reading about kabblah and esoteric writtings. Some of that seems to have a great amount of logic but than as in my other post a media program said it was a sin to practice in such stuff. So I get to scratching my head at this point! I mean if there is a God and I am trying to learn secrets of God and that is a sin it bothers me. Cause I never took to have such a strong interest of learning the underside if you will of God. I do plan on reading the bible in place of my millions of questions I bug you all with
but at the same time all these other texts are so interesting but can it be that bad?

Also again with Jesus, was he really son of God? Or was he just like us that learned mystical secrets of God? Is the holy grail a cup or an actual secret of god you can uncover within yourself. Is there any truth about what the templar knights founds? If there are ancient secrets from egypt etc is it near satanic to learn them as it may give you God like knowledge or power. I guess some of those questions may be far fetched but I am just trying to explain everything I am seeing which creates so many questions and thoughts in mind.

Well thanks for listening to me ramble on
I appreciate everyones help with this. This issue is very important to me and I feel more comfortable talking with real people and looking with in myself raher than seeking it in a Church that sticks by a set of beliefs. I like to see all beliefs and I hope to gain some myself with the knowledge of others and myself.


John,



posted on Nov, 8 2005 @ 06:48 AM
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Originally posted by japike
Also again with Jesus, was he really son of God?



This is the question everyone has to answer.

Matthew16-13-17
16:13
When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?

16:14
And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.

16:15
He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

16:16
And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

16:17
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.



posted on Nov, 8 2005 @ 09:35 AM
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Originally posted by japike
Plus when I look around about all the death that happens in the world I get a little scared to be honest. I wonder if it could happen to me at any time.


It could happen to any of us at any time.

Suppose there were no afterlife - when the lights go out, they just never turn back on. Why is that frightening to you?

If death is permanent, you will not be there to experience it. It will be just like the time before you were born. Does it bother you that you didn't exist prior to that? Why then should it bother you to return to that state?

It's instinctive to fear death, but you need not be terrified by it.

You go to sleep every night without the least bit of concern that your consciousness will go away. When you wake up each day, it is really a new consciousness that goes into effect, not the one that was there the night before. Your consciousness dies every night and you don't give it a second thought.

[edit on 8-11-2005 by spamandham]



posted on Nov, 8 2005 @ 10:39 AM
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Originally posted by japike

what about the people that don't know any better?....

...I mean if there is a God and I am trying to learn secrets of God and that is a sin it bothers me.


these verses in Romans speak clearly that God is just in executing judgement and pouring out his wrath for unrighteousness, because He reveals Himself within all, and through all of creation- so that none can say they were not aware of Him- with or without a Bible....


KJV Bible:
Romans 1:18-21
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold (suppress-nkjv) the truth in unrighteousness;(19)Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them.
(20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
(21) Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.


there was a story i'd read at some point, i truly wish i could recall the book, but one of the experiences recounted was that of a very remote region, where either the Bible had not yet been delivered, or was illegal in the country and very few were exposed to it. as they ministered to the people there, they were welcomed by someone who had believed in God for some time- He had appeared to her, so she believed in Him- and waited all those years for someone to give her the little book to tell her more about the person she believed on....

the Bible also says in Jeremiah:


Jer 33:3 Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.


some of those answers may come from individuals here- some may come from the Bible or your quest for more knowledge- and NO!!, reading from sources other than the Bible itself to gain an understanding and knowlege of God is not sin, in my opionion. for example, the book i quote below is summarized on it's cover as "a look at 20 worldviews, faiths and religions and how they compare to christianity". after each 'comparison' and explanation, the sections are followed by a list 'so what's the difference?' the book is complete with about 30 pages of endnotes (in very small font, mind you)... he's 'done his homework' so to speak. you might find that some of your questions or conflicts are addressed there, especially where they concern what other faiths believe about sin, the afterlife, and salvation. can it be considered 'sin' that he researched his topic so thoroughly as to be knowledgeable on the subject before he wrote?? nooooo.... it helps bring others into understanding, many 'christians' condemn other beliefs without being familiar with the similarities or differences- sadly, many cannot tell you why, demonstrating that they do not fully understand their own belief, much less someone else's... learn everything you can possibly hope to know, gather all the information and differing views available, ask God for wisdom- then decide- and never stop seeking to improve upon your beliefs or question your own decisions (well, that's the way i approach it anyway)



Fritz Ridenour, in his book So What's the Difference? states on p.30:
"At best we can know the truth only partially..."


We may possess some truths, but wisdom will reveal to us that there is much we do not know.


Ridenour:
"Neither do Christians claim that there is no truth in non-Christian religions and other world views. There are many truths that are common to all people. Nor do Christians claim that they are immune from cultural blinders or other errors. Error and foolishness is a common human problem, even among Christians."


use this place and others like it, search the net, visit the library- talk to believers, non-believers, rabbis- priests- anyone and everyone! and always remain open to the possibility that someone else may have stumbled upon a little nugget of truth. and regarding anyone who touts themselves as having ALL the answers, 'everyone else is wrong,' and yet can't even begin to search with you or share how they came to believe that way, i would be cautious before accepting their opinions- of course you realize this isn't limited to Biblical issues or the topic of 'hell'... be open and yet wary in all areas of your life. the answers you look for will come to you- be patient- ask questions and read read READ!



~amithyzt




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