The Shocking Treatment Of Republican Blacks

Seriously, we never talk about what it means to be too far to the right. If you're too far to the left the worse thing someone can call you is a pacifist. Too far to the right...you're racist.

Sir, that is not true at all! Let me give you a crash course about the political spectrum.

Left to Right

Centrist
Conservative
Arch Conservative
Fascist
Reactionary

Right to Left

Centrist
Liberal
Socialist
Communist

Now there are in-betweens, it’s not black and white, but that's roughly how it’s divided.

I don't understand it. Why are african americans republicans? I mean its like a black person joining the KKK! Its suicidal. Its like "Hi I am african american and I do not support other african americans, would you like to join my party?" "Hi I am african american I am a Republican even though most members of this party in congress hate me." Its like WTF!?

This is one of the most ignorant things I have ever seen here on ATS, and that's saying something.
People shouldn't be divided into groups of colors because not everyone thinks the same way. What you are trying to say is just another form of discrimination and racism.

Originally posted by xpert11
There arent any viable for the lack of a better term right wing partys.

In all fairness, there aren't any viable left wing parties either. The Dems talk a good fight, but even when they do occasionally get into the oval office they won't side with their constituents at the expense of the big money.

They're more than happy to be liberal in the areas that big business doesn't care about, but I don't see them making the hard choices to give advantages to the working class at the expense of the rich, certainly not on the national level.


What America really needs, in my humble opinion, is a party of liberal aims and conservative means. I would like to see a major party which first and foremost seeks to elevate the working class through education and home ownership, but goes about this not by income redistribution or excessive bureaucracy, but by decreasing taxation through reduced spending.

I don't believe in punishing success, but I also don't believe that the successful need the government's help. Money floats. You don't see wealth naturally accumulating in the hands of mechanics and walmart employees. If you leave them more of their own money and empower them to earn more money (but not just give it to them mind you) they're going to spend it and they're going to invest it and that money will fuel the economy and find its way to the successful, inturn being paid back to employees and being recycled back up through consumption and investment.

If Republicans would back away from the business interests, I'd be one so fast it would make your head spin. If Democrats would do it, I'd still be a little down on some of their ideas, but they'd be far and away the lesser evil and I'd have to vote with them much of the time.

Personally, as it is now, I don't always vote. I'll vote when it's EXTREMELY important to keep a particular individual out of power- but that's never actually come up (I'd vote against Bush if he could run again). I'll vote for a candidate who deserves my vote. I'll always vote on a ballot initiative unless I simply have not been able to understand it well enough to know which side I support. If it ever comes up, I'd vote for a third party candidate who had a slim chance of winning, just to rock the boat. I'd have voted Perot in 92 for example, if I hadn't been in 5th grade. As a matter of fact I would have voted for him in 5th grade, except the school mock election was strictly Bush v Clinton- they like to indoctrinate you early.

(I voted Bush in 5th grade, but only because I voted Bush in Kindergarten, and I only voted for Bush in Kindergarten because I could read his name. The scarry thing is, I think there are legal voters who may decide in the same manner.)

I'm appalled...

So just because a person is a certain color they should vote for a certain party? And if they don't they have Oreo cookies thrown at them? To the people that are comparing the Republican party to the KKK. Please tell me you are just trolling. You can't honestly believe what you are saying. Well I guess we just have to deny apathy here. Wish we could also work on denying ignorance.

Originally posted by Saphronia
It isn't that liberals think that "minorities" should kiss the hands of democrats. It isn't even about liberals. It's really about republicans and black people. Doesn't really matter what this cat stands for if he's standing under the republican banner. The republican party has a history of walking the fine line of race baiting...don't you remember the so called "welfare queen" era. Don't you remember the dixie-crats that eventually left the democratic part and joined the republican party. Wasn't it dubya and Karl Rove that used race against John McCain in the 2000 primaries. Republicans don't get to have it both ways. You either race bait and gain distrust and hate from the black community or you actually listen to the concerns of your black constituents and address the problems in their community with more than an bigger prisons and more police.

If no one is going to address the racist hiding in the republican party--black folk in mass aren't going to vote republican and any time a black person identifies themselves as a republican he is going to be seen as a "race trader" to black folk because of the history. Pelting him with oreos aside, he's brought this on himself and I'm sure he expected it.

ps...three black republicans are not a sign of a trend.

O.k., here is the problem!! Where do you get off thinking that government should fix the problem? Shouldn't the black families be doing what needs to be done? I don't borrow money off of the government. I borrow it from my parents or in-laws, which is different from African Americans. There needs to be a culture change in this country. How can the black community keep saying 'n-word' this, 'n-word' that to each other and then be mad at white people say it? The black community needs many people like Bill Cosby to speak up and really be a leader. People like Jesse Jackson are busy helping out Toukee Williams when what he should be doing is telling the black community to show up at parent/teacher conferences, buy your kid Hooked on Phonics, and don't rely on the government. We saw what happens when you rely solely on the government for everything such as what happened with Katrina. I notice many black parents at the school where$ I teach are absent when there are problems with their children. Wake up black people. Conservative blacks are the ones at parent/teacher conferences. They are the ones whose kids are good readers.

Westpoint you gotta be fricken kidding me. Lol, okay don't get into that racist crap, because everyone here posting on this thread is being racist. Okay, god dang it, you are being racist, I am being racist, everyone on this thread is being racist, so quit the blaming!

Anyway, I guess some blacks just support big buisnesses. I mean I am okay with that, but when they are betraying there race, I mean that is bad. I am not going to tell em what to do. Kanye West is a good role model. Seriously, no racism intended, I like that guy. He does rap but its not like "bad" rap. He does not like Bush. He believes in standing up.

Also, I don't understand having things be fair, is not being communist. Okay communist is completely different then being on the left wing side. Look if you have ever watched the movie syriana, you will understand how corrupt our Republican government is. That movie scared me. I didn't think our government was really that bad. They shot down a guy because they wanted the oil. For big buisness. I might add that that movie is based entirely on non-fiction. Its real.

What I really fear the most is this. Okay let me use an example: okay my friend stopped believing in aliens when the X-Files was over. I am afraid that once Bush is out of office, people will start voting Republican again. They say that hate him now, but they only hate him, because in our society, its become, "cool" to hate him. Have any of you noticed that? I have. I have seen it A LOT.

O.k., here is the problem!! Where do you get off thinking that government should fix the problem? Shouldn't the black families be doing what needs to be done? I don't borrow money off of the government. I borrow it from my parents or in-laws, which is different from African Americans.

Hey, guess what? African Americans have no parents to borrow money from!! Their life is horrible. Do you know how hard it is to be a poor african american, under the influence of drugs, violence, alchohol. Its pretty hard. They borrow money from the govt, because they have no one else to borrow it from! Not like us rich whites who's parents kill their parents to obtain millions of dollars. The only blacks who are Republicans are the rich ones. I bet. Because the rich ones have inherited a large buisness. Most rich people inherit now a days. Guarantee it. Gurantee it. Yes I meant to say that twice. What happens when these people don't rely on the government, is they die. Yes people died when they relied on the government for hurricance katrina, but guess what, who else do they have to rely on? They expect a government that will help them in times of need, a Republican/Conservative one is not one for the job. Look how they handled hurricance katrina?

mod edit to shorten quote

[edit on 1-1-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

Look, if you want to keep making excuses, then nothing will get done. My wife's uncle is 45, has ADHD, and refuses to work in legitimate occupations. He does drugs, drinks, and is sucking his mother's retirement money dry. He needs toughlove!! No more excuses! Give him a suit, give him the name of a homeless shelter, and cut him off. point him in the direction of a 12 step program. His mom is pretty good(other than being able to cut the strings). The black people in Katrina can blame one person....themselves. They are the ones that did not go to school(God knows there are plenty of opportunities), and they are reliant on the government. Government should be there for a hand up, not a hand out. They should be there to pull you back up on the ledge, but then your job is to climb out when you are now safe. All government should be there for is to make sure the roads are ok so that people can get to work. They should be there to give a warning for people to get out. Look, obviously sometime the cycle of drugs, violence, and high numbers of kids with dads are affecting this country!! However, we must cut the cycle! That will not happen with Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson. You need someone to say it like it is, like Bill Cosby. The Civil War is over. They have their freedom. They have opportunities to improve. They just need to do it.

mod edit to remove quote of previous post

[edit on 1-1-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

Vagabond says...

1. I'm not a Republican.

Then why are you spouting their tired rhetoric?

I'm just saying that the Democrats have gotten used to it, and they aren't doing everything that they could to earn your vote because they already expect it. I think the Democrats would do more for African Americans if every once in a while African Americans decided to make an example out of one or two congressmen by voting for a third party or a moderate like John McCain, as long as there was a candidate like that who they found acceptible.

This is nothing more than right wing propaganda. The very idea is ridiculous, but they have said it enough that it has stuck in your head. Now, you actually believe that our concerns won't be addressed because we support democrats. Black people as a whole don't need to vote for a Republican to get the politicans to listen to their concerns. Tis like folk think we are unable to weigh an issue and pick the candidate that is closest to our beliefs. Did you ever stop to think maybe our concerns are being addressed the same as everybody else in this country, through the democratic process?

3. I still think I'm right.

You can believe whatever you want because you have a right to your opinion, but to close your mind to the fact that your views place black people on the level of children is truly sad. We are individuals that don't need a leader to hold our hand at the polls. We can and will vote for whoever we choose.

Let's face it, the African American community could give a couple of seats in congress to anyone it wanted if it came together with a lot of energy to teach the two major parties a lesson. Now don't you think the Democrats would start listening if you took a seat away from them and gave it to a minority-centered third party?

No. That is a form of segregation. Tis like saying because someone is white they won't vote the right way on issues that effect people of color. I'm not going to vote for someone so that I can increase the "voting power" of black people. This is another ridiculous notion that is borderline offensive and smells republican. IF this country has truly changed why should it matter what the color my representatives skin is? Why should it matter what color I am when I enter the voting booth. I'll still be pro-choice, anti-war, and anti-capital punishment. Show me a republican that believes the way I do, and a democrat that that doesn't.

Um, I don't know if you've talked to the average American lately, but there are a LOT of ill-informed voters out there of all colors. Try it. Go to some fairly crowded social venue and start asking people if they are registered to vote.

You are misunderstanding me...your whole post assumed that ALL black people that vote democrat are ill-informed voters...and that ALL black people needed a "leader" to tell them where to put their vote so that they can be taken seriously. But now I see that you think ALL americans need a leader to hold their hands at the poll. It isn't offensive...just arrogant.

Originally posted by agwardlds
O.k., here is the problem!! Where do you get off thinking that government should fix the problem? Shouldn't the black families be doing what needs to be done? I don't borrow money off of the government. I borrow it from my parents or in-laws, which is different from African Americans. There needs to be a culture change in this country. How can the black community keep saying 'n-word' this, 'n-word' that to each other and then be mad at white people say it?

and....let's stop it just about there.

This isn't about the n-word...which I use on the daily and don't have a problem with. But that's far off the topic start another thread for your list of what's wrong with black people in this country and maybe...just maybe I'll debate some of this with you.

But, this is about the first sentence of your post, "O.k., here is the problem!! Where do you get off thinking that government should fix the problem?"

Because I pay the government a very large portion of my money from income to property tax and of course the unforgiving, soul raping sales tax, I believe the government works for me and that is where I "get off thinking" that the government should fix problems in my community.

Originally posted by Saphronia

We can and will vote for whoever we choose.

Good-- you should. We all should.

However, the entire point of this thread is that, to many blacks, any black who votes for a Republican, or worse yet, any black who runs as a Republican, is a "traitor" who is to be attacked and derided and ridiculed and despised. The people who engage in these attacks do NOT want you to "vote for whoever we choose." They want to, and believe that they legitimately should, decide for whom you may or may not vote, and they make that decision based ENTIRELY on race.

So who are the real racists there?

Republicans created the hate by race baiting. Black republicans wouldn't get such a hard time if their party wasn't running around using race to win elections.

I totally agree doesn't matter if your views are republican then by all means vote republican, but there are things a black person has to ignore about the republican party just as the log cabin republicans do. It isn't racist to point that out, just politics...all of it.

It reminds me of how the Republicans trotted out Alan Keyes when Obama looked like he was going to when in Illinois to divide the "black" vote. Will we ever just be voters in this country or will we always be "black voters"? When Republicans stop it then maybe the respect for the few black folk that embrace their ideals outside of their racism will grow.

Originally posted by Saphronia
Republicans created the hate by race baiting. Black republicans wouldn't get such a hard time if their party wasn't running around using race to win elections.

The entire point of this thread is blacks who go out of their way to attack other blacks simply for daring to vote for Republicans or to run as Republicans. What are they doing if not "using race to win elections?" How is what they're doing anything other than "race baiting?"

Will we ever just be voters in this country or will we always be "black voters"?

As long as blacks continue to focus on their race and continue to condemn other blacks for voting for anyone other than the officially sanctioned candidates, then no, you won't just be voters. As soon as black people can vote for the candidate of their choice without facing the condemnation of other blacks-- the accusation that they're "traitors to their race" then AND ONLY THEN will you "just be voters" and not "black voters."

Originally posted by Bob LaoTse
However, the entire point of this thread is that, to many blacks, any black who votes for a Republican, or worse yet, any black who runs as a Republican, is a "traitor" who is to be attacked and derided and ridiculed and despised.

You're right, that's unfair. It should be anyone that votes for a Republican, or worse yet, runs as a Republican that society should attack, deride, ridicule and despise. Race has nothing to do with it.

I'd suggest that anybody who votes for a candidate from, or worse yet runs as a candidate for, either of the two increasingly indistinguishable major parties, should be attacked, derided, ridiculed and despised.

There are only two types of political partisans in the world-- liars and the fools who believe them.

You're right, that's unfair. It should be anyone that votes for a Republican, or worse yet, runs as a Republican that society should attack, deride, ridicule and despise. Race has nothing to do with it.

Is there any response to this? I mean, I can’t get over the fact that someone can think like this to even begin to think about posting a response. You’ve said some pretty amazing things in the past RANT, but for me personally this takes the cake. Just out of curiosity, what do you call people who say the same thing only instead put in democrat, or liberal?
You should really look in the mirror once in awhile.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Just out of curiosity, what do you call people who say the same thing only instead put in democrat, or liberal?

Big difference. If they said "democrat" then I'd say they're probably at least half right.

If they said "liberal" I'd say we already covered that talking about those big government, borrow and spend, open border, patriotically correct, thought police, unConstitutional, corporate global socialist, anti-American, sell-out traitor Republicans wouldn't you?

Don't be so black & white in your thinking. Just because the Republican Party is now a thoroughly corrupt criminal enterprise thinking people despise, doesn't mean I'm saying the Democratic Party is perfect.

Originally posted by RANT

Don't be so black & white in your thinking. Just because the Republican Party is now a thoroughly corrupt criminal enterprise thinking people despise, doesn't mean I'm saying the Democratic Party is perfect.

So you're saying that you don't even post your shallow, reflexive, essentially Pavlovian anti-Republican diatribes in order to, by contrast, imply some sort of positive qualities in the Democrats? It's just negativity for negativity's sake?

Honestly, I don't think there's any more monochromatic form of "thinking." At least those who criticize one side in order to support the other are contributing something, however misguided.

Ah, but of course, you didn't actually say that you aren't defending the Democrats-- you simply said that you're not saying that they're "perfect." Since nobody actually accused you of saying that, that's only a straw man.

AND and off-topic straw man at that. Before you derailed it with yet more of your trite and predictable Republican-bashing, the point of this thread was whether or not it's acceptable, and whether or not it's racist, for black politicians and voters to attack other black politicians and voters for supporting the Republican party. While it's slipped off a couple of times into simple Republican-bashing (Republican = Klan, for instance), that isn't really the point, nor has it ever been. The point is whether or not blacks should be allowed to make up their own minds who to support and should be free from abuse from other blacks simply because they choose to support Republicans. I assert that to tell a person that they should vote in a particular manner simply because of their skin color is axiomatically racist, and should not be tolerated. Do you actually have an opinion on that issue? For that matter, do you actually have ANY opinion other than "Republicans suck?"

And, for the record, I also think that Republicans largely suck. I just find that to be a generally trite and insignificant opinion, and one that's rarely on topic.

So, is it acceptable for blacks to attack other blacks SOLELY because they feel that blacks, as a race, should not vote for Republicans, or is that inherently racist?

Originally posted by Saphronia
Vagabond says... "1. I'm not a Republican. "
Then why are you spouting their tired rhetoric?

What tired rhetoric is that? You mean calling the Republican Party "the party of Lincoln"? re-read the thread- I didn't say it. You mean suggesting that Condie Rice and Colin Powell are indicators that the Republican party favors African-Americans more than the Dems? re-read the thread- I didn't say it.
What I said is that African-Americans should make the Democrats earn their vote by making examples out of Democrats who have not adequately represented them, and I did not say that this meant defecting to the Republican party necessarily- I distinctly raised the idea of a black political party or support for third parties. That's not Republican Rhetoric.
Last time I checked it was Eldridge Cleaver who had the idea of running for President with the Peace and Freedom Party.

This is nothing more than right wing propaganda.

(Referring to my assertion that the Democrats have become too comfortable with the expectation of black support and are not working as hard for African Americans as they would be forced to if those votes were made contingent upon results.)

The very idea is ridiculous, but they have said it enough that it has stuck in your head. Now, you actually believe that our concerns won't be addressed because we support democrats.
Black people as a whole don't need to vote for a Republican to get the politicans to listen to their concerns.

Then don't vote Republican. Vote for a third party. Start your own party. The bottom line is that you haven't introduced any evidence to the effect that the Democratic Party has worked hard for the interests of African Americans. They aren't doing that much because they know they've got your vote, and you're standing here making my case.

What are the Democrats making noise about, hmm? I don't mean just Charles Rangel- his party is not behind him.
(The man has been in congress for 35 years, he's highly visible, he's a decorated veteran, and yet I don't see him being made a whip, I don't see him on the Rule Committee, I don't see his seniority being acknowledged all that much. You can hardly argue that it's just because Way and Means is where he naturally belongs, although it does suit him, because they put slaughter, 18 years his junior in congress, on the extremely powerful rules committee, when she's in it for the environment and local issues.)

Where are the dems on reparations? I'm not saying I believe in it, but I've taken note that many African Americans do, and I don't know for sure where the dems are on the issue because I don't seem them trying to do anything about it.
What does the Democratic party plan to do about Gratz v. Bollinger? Sure, Grutter v. Bollinger said that universities could use some kind of non-descript affirmative action, but on the very same day they announced that you can't actually give minorities a point bonus in admission considerations. So sure, they can do it, as long as they don't have any way of doing it. I don't hear a plan for dealing with that from the Dems, but I bet I would if African Americans had demanded of their party "come up with a sollution for the Gratz decision or stand by to see a third party take another congressional seat away from you".

Speaking of which, I'd be curious to hear what you think about John Roberts. Call me curious.

Tis like folk think we are unable to weigh an issue and pick the candidate that is closest to our beliefs. Did you ever stop to think maybe our concerns are being addressed the same as everybody else in this country, through the democratic process?

Um... nobody's concerns are being addressed through the democratic process in this country. That's a big part of why I'm not a Republican. The two major parties have their voting blocs and don't have to do much for them, so they don't.
It's not that you're unable to pick a candidate intelligently, it's just that there are many cases where there is no candidate who comes anywhere close to being an intelligent choice. I'm not saying that you've forsaken the right choice because you're ignorant. I'm saying that in cases where there is no right choice you haven't demanded change, and that is pretty ignorant. You stand here making my case for me, defending the Democratic party tooth and nail, when they've been less than stellar in defending you.

You can believe whatever you want because you have a right to your opinion, but to close your mind to the fact that your views place black people on the level of children is truly sad.

I don't do that to the black people any more than I do to every other partisan group in America. Your problem is that you can't stand to think that maybe part of your problem is coming from within rather than from without.
It's simple: Is the Democratic Party perfect for minorities, or could they do better?
If they could do better, do you think they'll ever do better on their own, or will you have to motivate them to do better?

Many Americans of all groups, whatever their primary political interest may be, have pledged themselves to one of the two major parties because that party is closer to their views than the other, but not near as close as they'd like it to be. It never even occurs to them that they could force the parties to come around closer to their point of view if they'd stand together behind an alternative candidate once in a while to make a show of force.

Ross Perot is a perfect example. Bush 41 was not doing enough domestically. When Conservatives fired a shot across the Republican party's bow by embracing a third-party conservative who was more focused on the domestic issues which they cared about more than the gulf, the Republican Party responded with the Contract with America. Whether or not you agree with those initiatives is besides the point. Conservatives made an example out of Bush 41 and their party responded. The only problem is that they didn't persist- the party has fallen again. I think we should have made an example out of Bush 43 in his second election, or at the very least out of some of the party leadership in congress, to remind the party that we want a strong domestic agenda too, and that winning wars isn't enough to make us rally behind a president.

We are individuals that don't need a leader to hold our hand at the polls. We can and will vote for whoever we choose.

A lot of good it's done you. You're not JUST individuals. You are individuals in a community of likeminded individuals; no two people are perfectly the same in their views, but you can dang well be close enough to unite. Focused in one direction of your collective choosing, you command respect and have considerable authority. Seeing yourselves only as individuals, you can be herded.

No. That is a form of segregation. Tis like saying because someone is white they won't vote the right way on issues that effect people of color.

Wrong. I'm not saying you have to be exclusive. I'm saying that minorities (and implicitly anyone who is similarly interested in the issues affecting people of color) can't be assured of their parties support unless they force a compromise whereby the party must support them on that issue in order to retain the support of minority interests on other issues.

I've got news for you, the political process is a well-regulated civil war. Conflicting interests are battling for recognition, and none of them have wide enough support to win on their own. The only way to win is to barter your way into a coalition that will sufficiently respect your agenda, but you can never forget that there is no majority within the coalition- it's a wide array of allied interests, and from time to time a particular set of interests may find itself ignored and have to rock the boat, or find itself out of the game.

I'm not going to vote for someone so that I can increase the "voting power" of black people. This is another ridiculous notion that is borderline offensive and smells republican.

If reality offends you, then be offended. If you don't want the strength to achieve the things that are important to you, then fine, I'm wasting my time explaining all of this. Go ahead, vote for one party every year, no matter how little they do for you.

It's hardly Republican though. People who label themselves Republican are making the same ridiculous mistake that you are. They're making themselves the pawns of an aloof good-ol' boys club that is more than happy to pay them lipservice every election to get them riled up, but will rarely ever dig in and fight for the things that matter to the voters.

IF this country has truly changed why should it matter what the color my representatives skin is?

1. This country hasn't changed. Look around.
2. It's not skin color I'm talking about. It's the interests of a group of people. I don't care if you elect a 6'1" blone haired, blue eyed German as long as he does the things you elect him to do.

Why should it matter what color I am when I enter the voting booth. I'll still be pro-choice, anti-war, and anti-capital punishment.

My point exactly- Issues. One of the most liberal states in the union just put a man to death a couple weeks ago- I suspect you're aware. A man who is not expected to be friendly to Roe v Wade was confirmed with the support of half the Democrats in the Senate.

Show me a republican that believes the way I do, and a democrat that that doesn't.

Nobody's telling you to vote Republican. Vote for a third party who embraces your values more closely, and even then I'm not saying to do that IF the particular candidate you have available from the Dems already represents your views. The fact of the matter is though that you've got Democrats who helped take us to war, you've got democrats who voted for John Roberts, you've got democrats who aren't doing anything serious to stop the war because using the war to make Bush look bad is way better in their eyes than actually stopping the war. The Democrats aren't the ones who pushed through an amendment to enforce FM 34-52 on the CIA.
What I'm saying is that you give lipservice to choosing your candidate on his individual virtues, but then you go right back to defending the party at all costs. You're against the idea of gaining greater influence for your interests in that party, you're against going to a third party when they represent you better than Democrats, even in cases where together you could help the third party win.

You are misunderstanding me...your whole post assumed that ALL black people that vote democrat are ill-informed voters

Incorrect. That's your problem. You'd be right if you'd characterized my statement as "all black people who vote democrat inspite of their interests are ill-informed voters", or better yet "ALL PEOPLE who vote FOR ANY PARTY in spite of their interests are ill-informed voters". For example: If a Christian were to line up on the Republican side behind Rudy Gulliani they'd have to be an ignoramus, unless they had made a conscious decision that other factors in Gulliani's position were more important that 2 failed marriages (one incestuous) and his pro-choice stance. It's not strictly aimed at blacks.

I simply assert that one who chooses a party over a candidate or over the best interest of the issues he considers most important is ignorant. Can you honest quarrel with that, or is this simply a product of your pathological need to see oppressive racism around every corner?

I don't understand how people can become Republican after all the facts about the party there are. Like how they are all corrupt and see the world as one big giant oil mine, or why they think that they can win every country over by the influence of violence or money. I mean african american parents are very dissappointed when their child becomes a Republican. I have seen it myself. They want their child out of their life. Its sort of like a disgrace to them.

Though farenheit 9/11 maybe fake or real. I think Syriana was completely real. I mean it is. You cannot deny the movie because of who made it, because they have no reputation. Unlike whats his name on farenheit 9/11. In Syriana there is four different stories, one of them happens to be about an african american buisness man. At first I thought he was good, trying to expose the politician, but in the end he was just as corrupt as the Republican, buisness driven, CIA was.

I mean at least Democrats say that they support the people, whether they do it or not is up to you to decide. Republicans don't even say they support Big Buisnesses. Heck, they don't say they have the American peoples interest in mind at all.

First day of the new month, and I've already used up one of my WATS votes.

That was a tremendous post-- insightful, well-supported, forceful without being hurtful. You touched on specific pertinent issues and broader related issues-- expanded and narrowed your subject as appropriate and then tied it all together. It was everything that a quality post should be. I'm impressed and not a little jealous.