Heh. Maslow's pyramid was one of my tests today.

I don't exactly get what you're saying though, or how psychology really belongs in the Skunk Works forum. I guess I am missing something big from the original post you mentioned.

[edit on 1-11-2005 by Yarcofin]

Originally posted by Yarcofin
Heh. Maslow's pyramid was one of my tests today.

I don't exactly get what you're saying though, or how psychology really belongs in the Skunk Works forum. I guess I am missing something big from the original post you mentioned.

[edit on 1-11-2005 by Yarcofin]

I did not know where ,was best to post it..
Basically, I am saying this pyramid is taught in management seminars as a controlling your work force and the seminars are all mostly male and about half of them had on Masonic rings..
Imagine how I felt among 27 men, being the only woman, and with my southern accent, all talk would cease whenever I spoke..
I was googling this when the last thread go gone, so since I had spent time on this, figured this may/could relate in a way the famous all-seeing eye on the money?
In what vein was the pyramid discussed in your school ?
The other think that disturbed me was the old black and white films of managers relating to the masses in production companies. some were called comfort bosses, some were imaged as fair bosses and at the top of this was what was called the
company-minded bosses which were displayed as being cruel, but never TOO cruel..this was to be our aim.

Originally posted by siriuslyone
Basically, I am saying this pyramid is taught in management seminars as a controlling your work force and the seminars are all mostly male and about
half of them had on Masonic rings..

Purely coincidental. Maslow is taught in all universities and in all management courses. He's also taught in psychology and education.

In what vein was the pyramid discussed in your school ?

Absolutly none in the courses I took that mentioned Maslow. In fact, none in any courses except historical mentions of Egypt and that the pyramids were built by the pharoahs.

The other think that disturbed me was the old black and white films of managers relating to the masses in production companies. some were called comfort bosses, some were imaged as fair bosses and at the top of this was what was called the company-minded bosses which were displayed as being cruel, but never TOO cruel..this was to be our aim.

The names came after observing the bosses. The management styles existed long before someone named them. They're just providing models.

Without the training, we get bosses who manage... well, whatever style they like. This includes angry tryants, micromanagers, and others who are just a pain to work for and who can destroy the company.

Thank you both for the explanations..In the seminars I spoke of was after college, and I guess the company I worked for at that time spent little time on the psychological areas.We were taken into groups of 5 and given 5 objects of survival..what to keep and what to discard as we were in a life threatening situation.such as plane crash, avalanches and this was fun, but the teacher was really hard-nosed and it confused me as to what his real point was..IOW, it was about the bottom line..and I felt it should have been more on the psyche of my employees..Does this make sense?

I don't really grasp the exercise that your instructor had you engage in, at least in a business sense. Physical survival is only the first level of the pyramid and denotes those needs that we have as infants that must be provided for us. Once we are older and able to provide those needs for ourselves we graduate to the next level of the pyramid, safety needs. Again, once we have realized our safety needs and mastered how to provide those for ourselves we move up the pyramid to the belongingness and love needs. Again, once realized we move further up the pyramid, etc... etc...

It doesn't make sense that someone could correlate Maslow's construct to your compay's bottom line. If it came down to motivating and managing employees, sure... but profits??? I'm not really sure.

{{{{It doesn't make sense that someone could correlate Maslow's construct to your compay's bottom line. If it came down to motivating and managing employees, sure... but profits??? I'm not really sure. }}}

Neither do I..It was a few years ago and this is a MAJOR USA company, and
was still a minority in this company, but they felt me qualified for such travels..I was shocked by the stupid survival games but I did well with those..I realize that being hit on by 5 of the men should not be any part of any manager..if they hit on me, what about the females under them.
Perhaps, I am reading this incorrectly, but it still haunts me today.
I watched ny peer group, of which i was the only representative of them, and I noticed they were indeed just after the bottom line..
I was not a country club manager, but I did have sympathy for women who had bad periods or who were sexually threatened.
This story is still hard for me to relate to, but it happened to show you the insides of power..
My boss was a sex addict, and he was married, and when Terry was out having sex, and his wife called, I was to tell her he was in the darkroom, and he would called her back..
I told him I would rather not, but he asked me if I liked my job? Just a little funny for women who may have been there, done that..
PS: We were taught that the top of the pyramid was the only kinds of managers that we would hire..

I too don't figure this for a Skunk Works thread, but here goes....

Maslow postulates that there are certain needs that have to be satisfied before we can expect a person to progess to the next level. As a teacher - and I really don't see corporate leaders really caring about this - I have seen proof that the hierarchy of needs has a great deal of validity. Students who are hungry, cold, or alienated have no reason to care about learning or growing as a self-actualized person. By self-actualized, Maslow isn't talking about some esoteric, mystical event, but simply a person who is cognizant of themselves and capable of reflection, growth, and change that is internally driven.

The pyramid is not some illuminati or Area 51 thing - nor is a stargate or some other such reference. Maslow is simply stating graphically that the portion of the population that achieves the more advanced goals are always going to be fewer in number.

This is the pyramid - Physiological is the base, self-actualization is the summit. According to Maslow, the population is 'layered' into these specific needs. Hopefully, as people develop, they move up through the hierarchy. Maslow believed that the well-developed person will climb the pyramid as they satisfy their more basic needs. The pyramid - unfortunately - reflects society as a whole. When you mention people who say ' don't give me the job' , they are likely hovering in one of the lower levels. They feel that something is better than the possibility of losing everything. Welfare isn't great, but it does provide basic needs. These are people who haven't developed a sense of self- esteem to be willing to wager. These are the victims of learned helplessness.

Self Actualization Needs (full potential)
These are the people who are comfortable with themselves, confident
in their abilities, and willing to take risks with an eye for the reward.
Ego Needs (self respect, personal worth, autonomy)
These are the people we see around us every day - hopefully! They
self-sufficient. They can provide for their own housing, pay their own
bills, have generally rewarding jobs. They often are in stable, long-term
relationships or are content with the level of human support they have
developed.

Social Needs (love, friendship, comradeship)
These are the people who have satisfied the most basic of needs and
have developed skills in creating a social circle of friends or a peer
group. One can argue that the AA program and others like it are focused
in helping their clients develop this level of self-actualization
Security Needs (protection from danger)
People who have mastered this level are those who do not face
imminent death all the time. They are secure enough that they are not
worried about where they will sleep tonight or if they are going to
eat today. They are the ones who don't have to fear being robbed or
attacked while they sleep.
Physiological Needs (warmth, shelter, food)
The homeless are people who are grappling with this problem. These are
people whose entire life consists of the most elemental tasks that need
to be developed simply to survive. They cannot be bothered with
anything else beyond the concern of survival at the most basic level.


I can see personnel managers using this as some sort of filtering tool. How it's really appropriate, I'm still not sure.....

I cannot see what it means in a personnel level; as the way people walk is one of my top criteria for hiring a person.
If they do not walk briskly, they will not work briskly either.
As far as Maslow goes, I understand his premise, but he has no solutions, and he did this LONG before all the welfare, AA problems..
I wish to know what does he expect us as a whole to do about it?
I would not spend that much time if I had no possible solutions..Make sense?

I remember doing Maslow at A-level even, it was part of several courses - Media, Business, Communications, I think we even touched on it in English at one point.

Definately not the stuff of conspiracy.

Originally posted by VelvetSplash
I remember doing Maslow at A-level even, it was part of several courses - Media, Business, Communications, I think we even touched on it in English at one point.

Definately not the stuff of conspiracy.

When I posted it it was but the thread I was responding to got trash binned.
mods-if you wish to move this, please do..

All I want to know is if 'throwing' $$ at all bottom levels is the only solution..easy question, IMO.

siriuslyone, it sounds to me like you are dealing with what many women deal with every day in corporate America. I am wondering if you think large corporations are supposed to be fair and impartial places for women to work. I've always seen them to be male-dominated bastions of incompetence. But then, they pay me, so I usually don't comment on it. For what it's worth, most of the higher-up managers I've worked with in my career have been active in not wanting or hiring females. Men are afraid of women, for the most part.

but does Maslow teach us how to help these many masses.

IMO, Maslow is popular because he's right for the most part. The heirarchy of needs helps many people organize themselves and their worldview. I don't think he intended it to be used for a company to determine its hiring policies. If a company chooses to use this model as a way to motivate their employees, they'd probably have to mold it to fit such a limited place as work, where very little self-actualization is done, and where most people don't feel "safe" about their job, but are pushed to achieve more lest they be fired or laid-off.

Also, why does it mean anything that Maslow is a Jew? I didn't understand that comment in your post. Can you explain?

Originally posted by smallpeeps
siriuslyone, it sounds to me like you are dealing with what many women deal with every day in corporate America. I am wondering if you think large corporations are supposed to be fair and impartial places for women to work. I've always seen them to be male-dominated bastions of incompetence. But then, they pay me, so I usually don't comment on it. For what it's worth, most of the higher-up managers I've worked with in my career have been active in not wanting or hiring females. Men are afraid of women, for the most part.

but does Maslow teach us how to help these many masses.

IMO, Maslow is popular because he's right for the most part. The heirarchy of needs helps many people organize themselves and their worldview. I don't think he intended it to be used for a company to determine its hiring policies. If a company chooses to use this model as a way to motivate their employees, they'd probably have to mold it to fit such a limited place as work, where very little self-actualization is done, and where most people don't feel "safe" about their job, but are pushed to achieve more lest they be fired or laid-off.

Also, why does it mean anything that Maslow is a Jew? I didn't understand that comment in your post. Can you explain?

Dis-regard the Jewish part, I should have edited that out..It was directed at the thread I told you got immediately trash-binned.I was to be a conspiracy thingie about triangles,,disregard.
Yes, I am a Master Watchmaker, Photofinishing Engineer among owning my own businesses..The first 2 were/ are totally male oriented, but my Dad wanted a son so me sat me down at the watch bench at about 7.
I was put on TV as being the only female watchmaker in the southeast at one time.
I was once working in a repair center when I saw one of the male's checks and it was 5 times what I was being paid for the same job.
The glass ceiling is still there, trust me..and I could not comprehend the concept of a company saying the top of maslows chart are the ONLY type manager we will have..This to me, meant many exclusions.
If you are still going through it, bless you as I know they have to bite their tongues a hundred times a day..to keep from talking down to females..

I really do not hold it against them, as their Moms still do not teach males correctly.My best confidantes are male as long as they promise to leave their tests-os-ter-one at home..tests one, especially yours truly..
Nice post, thank you...

}}}}The names came after observing the bosses. The management styles existed long before someone named them. They're just providing models.

Without the training, we get bosses who manage... well, whatever style they like. This includes angry tryants, micromanagers, and others who are just a pain to work for and who can destroy the company. {{{{

Yes, imagine if you can the controlling bosses whose ego comes first, thinking his 'way' is the way to please the company when if fact he/she is pleasing himself for egoic pleasures,,

[edited because of double post]

[edit on 12-11-2005 by siriuslyone]

deleted due to trying to correct original post