NEWS: Greenpeace To Face Fines For Damaging The Environment

Greenpeaces flagship vessel The rainbow Warrior 11 and crew were handed a AU$15,543 fine after the ship ran aground and destroyed part of Tubbataha coral reef in the central Philippines during a Climate change awarness campaign. Greenpeace has said that although the incident was accidental and they were using 2005 navigation charts provided by the Philippine government, they will comply with the ruling.



Well they did damage a reef but in this case if they are correct in saying what they have about using the Philippine provided maps, then I think the fine is unfair and shows some effort once again to destroy Greenpeace.

[edit on 1-11-2005 by Mayet]

If the maps were incorrect, then the fine should be dropped. More worrisome is if other traffic, i.e., commercial or cruise are using the same maps.

i agree....like oil tankers for instance...

I remember the exxon valdez.......

What a quandry Greenpeace were in. They had 2 options.

1. wear the fine.

2. fight it based on the incorrect maps.

Assuming that the maps WERE incorrect, if they had elected to fight the fine, it would have looked rather bad from a PR standpoint. Trying to shirk their responsibilities after they damaged the environment. Some of their more hard-core members may have become disenchanted from what could be perceived as damaging the environment, then trying to escape the consequences as they have accused many corporations and governments of doing.

As I see it, they had NO CHOICE but to wear the fine. Too bad so sad... thats the price you pay for being left wing environmental extremists.

Reflector

A sad, but proud moment for greenpeace...

at least they made an example by owning up to a questionable situation, thereby taking away many of the excuses other pollution generating companies have used thru the years.

I can only hope that the minor damage they inflicted will prevent a worse catastropy by redrawing the maps correctly.

there is a certain irony to the situation that does make me want to laugh to a degree.

best course for them I could see is to own up and pay the fine, then doa full check on their instruments to see if its on their end, then as a bit of good PR, work with the government to change and update the maps as needed so it doesn't happen again to others and cause more and possibly worse damage.

It is a bit of a pie in the face for them but I hope they also learn that 'sometimes, stuff just happens'

When it isn't used correctly.

Sometimes, the Skipper is reading the map wrong; sometimes Gilligan is told to "ease up a bit, li'l buddy!" and doesn't comply.

I suspect that the maps are the same ones put out by international navigation authorities, who probably don't update the positions of coral reefs very frequently.

If the map really is off by a mile and a half, why aren't there a hundred vessels scoured and heaved-to up on the reef?

ohh . . . . maybe only Greenpiece was issued an innaccurate map! Yes, it's a vast Philippinese conspiracy!

well. At any rate, someone screwed up. But of course, it couldn't have been the courageous white people out on a brave mission to declare everyone guilty of insensitivity to our earth. Must of been the locals who are incompetent. They're polluters anyway. Look at what they did with their Mount Pinotubo: dumping more sulfide gas into the atmosphere than the entire industrial revolution!!!! The nerve of them!!!!

One might almost wonder if volcanoes like Mount P. were the real cause of greenhouse gases, and not what we puny humans were doing. That would explain why the hole in the Ozone is over the south pole, since the volcanoes of the last 20 years have all been in the southern hemisphere. I mean, if all the pollution coming from the USA is causing the hole, then the hole in the ozone should be over the north pole, due to the Coriolis Effect, right? Instead of in the south, where volcanoes like Dukono, and Halmahera in Indonesia, garbuna, or langina, especially since the ones with high sulfur emissions are all in the south . . .

Oh, but back to the matter at hand.

A snippet of some of my favorite poetry:

The first thing I thought of when reading this article are these lines from "The Hunting of the Snark" by Lewis Carroll.

He had bought a large map representing the sea,
Without the least vestige of land:
And the crew were much pleased when they found it to be
A map they could all understand.

"What's the good of Mercator's North Poles and Equators,
Tropics, Zones, and Meridian Lines?"
So the Bellman would cry: and the crew would reply
"They are merely conventional signs!

"Other maps are such shapes, with their islands and capes!
But we've got our brave Captain to thank:
(So the crew would protest) "that he's bought us the best--
A perfect and absolute blank!"

Does anyone else sense the irony of griping about global warming while tooling around the pacific in what is basically a giant pleasure yacht that gets what, 5 miles to the gallon???

A map is just a guide. The captain of master is ultimatly responsible for everything that happens with his ship. The fact that the map showed he was a mile and a half from the reef is no excuse. There is no way for a map to be accurate 100% of the time, especially a map of the odean depths. Remember the submarine that hit the underwater mountain? The captain of that ship was relieved of his command and discharged from the Navy. I love the irony of Greenpeace getting fined for damaging the environment. Maybe the next time someone else causes an inadvertant oil spill by running aground they won't be in such a hurry to castrate the captain. When it comes to Greenpeace I agree with the French.

and what do the french say? (In English, please)

Seriously, I'd like to know.

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft

and what do the french say? (In English, please)

Seriously, I'd like to know.

This will pretty much explain it.

What the French said

As usual the powers that be have directed our attention from their Global Environmenal Attrocities,and now the media are going " Oh bad Greenpeace...."
What about when the french secret service sank the rainbow warrior?
Oh yes,they got off scott free.
What about the destruction of our atmosphere and planet by corporations hellbent on financial dominance,whatever the cost?
And what about us,the humans? Never mind that---Greenpeace are bad,they must have done it on purpose,talk about that instead...

Ohhhhh, how sweet the irony of this incident.








seekerof

I have worked with charts quite a lot in times past. Note- maps deal with land, charts deal with water . Just as with any other printed material, such as maps, books, assembly instructions etc, it is highly likely to find errors in the final product. All mariners know that. Regardless of where the charts were obtained, there are a relatively few actual publishers.

The chart publishers publish a 'master chart' usually called 'Chart 0'. This is actually a book that not only lists all charts available from that producer, but also all the known errors on those charts at publication. When new errors or additional hazards, such as wrecks or shifting sand bars, are found the new coordinates are immediately sent out in a 'Notice to Mariners'.

After purchasing a new chart- charts are not 'provided', they are bought by the user- the first thing that should be done is to go through all the notices and "chart 0' to make any changes and additions to that chart. This includes making additions and erasing errors.

The article does not say anything about how updated the chart was, and whether this was a known error that a notice had been sent on. Without this information, we have no way of knowing how liable Greenpeace actually is for the grounding. Regardless, there is more to being a 'mariner' than reading a chart. With experience, you can tell by wave action, water color and movement, and a million other indications what is happening beneath the surface. That is why navigators and ship masters are the most sought after and highest paid crew members.

All that being said, in the end the master or captain is legally and morally responsible for all actions of a ship and crew. The fine is legal and proper. Greenpeace would have had to pay a fine regardless of the chart's accuracy, as would any other shipping organization. Yet another reason why there are so many insurance companies.

I do not buy the lets blame the map theory. More then likely the ships sonar operator fell asleep or someone punched in the wrong location in their GPS. Now they want to lay the blame where it does not belong. Knowing Greenpeace they never would admit they did anything wrong even when they know they are in the wrong. Oh wait by paying the fine they did admit wrong doing

Seek Love your pic it seems to fit right in here

Originally posted by Montana
After purchasing a new chart- charts are not 'provided', they are bought by the user- the first thing that should be done is to go through all the notices and "chart 0' to make any changes and additions to that chart. This includes making additions and erasing errors.

The article does not say anything about how updated the chart was, and whether this was a known error that a notice had been sent on. Without this information, we have no way of knowing how liable Greenpeace actually is for the grounding. Regardless, there is more to being a 'mariner' than reading a chart. With experience, you can tell by wave action, water color and movement, and a million other indications what is happening beneath the surface. That is why navigators and ship masters are the most sought after and highest paid crew members.

All that being said, in the end the master or captain is legally and morally responsible for all actions of a ship and crew. The fine is legal and proper. Greenpeace would have had to pay a fine regardless of the chart's accuracy, as would any other shipping organization. Yet another reason why there are so many insurance companies.

You have voted Montana for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

Most accurate and excellent observation and commentary, Montana.
And thanks, shots.





seekerof

[edit on 1-11-2005 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by shots
I do not buy the lets blame the map theory. More then likely the ships sonar operator fell asleep or someone punched in the wrong location in their GPS.

Somebody today said that Greenpeace doesn't use sonar, because it screws up the whales and dolphins navigation whatever. I dunno.

Originally posted by jsobecky
Somebody today said that Greenpeace doesn't use sonar, because it screws up the whales and dolphins navigation whatever.

The device used on civilian ships, while technically 'sonar', is called a fathometer. It uses the same principle as sonar- sound waves projected through water- but at a MUCH lower level. The transducer points straight down and has a very narrow beam. It would not be hazardous or even annoying to marine animals.

Any modern vessel that for some reason did not use a fathometer would be impossible to register in most countries. It is considered a basic necessity. Unfortunately, as it only points down, it is useless for seeing hazards ahead.


Edit- OK, so I can't spell......

[edit on 11/1/2005 by Montana]

Originally posted by jsobecky

Somebody today said that Greenpeace doesn't use sonar, because it screws up the whales and dolphins navigation whatever. I dunno.

I think who ever said that does not know what they are talking about. There are two types of sonar Passive and active. Passive is the type used by commercial ships and research vessels. The Navy on the other hand uses active sonar that is the type that can harm whales etc.

Originally posted by Montana
Unfortunately, as it only points down, it is useless for seeing hazards ahead.

Passive sonar points ahead as well as down. It is just like a fish locator if you will, the basic difference is passive does not send out waves that can harm fish/mammals

en.wikipedia.org...



[edit on 11/1/2005 by shots]

Originally posted by shots

Passive sonar points ahead as well as down. It is just like a fish locator if you will, the basic difference is passive does not send out waves that can harm fish/mammals

True, unfortunately it still would not be able to detect a reef ahead as it doesn't give off sound. Most fish finders do use an active system, though. At least all the ones I have put in fishing boats do.