One European Nation out of how many though and where did they say that?

Originally posted by Odium
One European Nation out of how many though and where did they say that?

That just goes to show you that at least one European nation is honest enough to admit when something else is better.

The DERA simulation has been discussed many times on this forum. You may not accept its findings but you only asked when the Europeans said the Raptor was best. That was when.

Originally posted by Odium
One European Nation out of how many though and where did they say that?

Oh, I didn't realise you meant the whole of Europe rising as one to proclaim it. Isn't that a little unrealistic?

Originally posted by waynos
Oh, I didn't realise you meant the whole of Europe rising as one to proclaim it. Isn't that a little unrealistic?

Wasn't me that said Europe, I just know what the term means. One Nation doesn't speak for the whole of Europe.

And never seen the report, so I'd not know about it. Still can you link it me?

One must bear in mind that the full details of the simulation haven't been released, making it hard to verify whether it gives an accurate evaluation of the capabilities of these aircraft (for instance, whether they had adequate knowledge of the Sukhoi and Raptor to realistically simulate their combat performance). Nor is the DERA an entirely disinterested party, as part of the British defence establishment.

See, even they admit the problems with placing a fighter against another fighter - nobody except the Goverment know their capability and it is just assumed. So how people on ATS seem to know is rather amazing.

Originally posted by Odium
When have the Russian Military said that the Raptor is better than what they have?

- yeah, that will really boost moral, telling your pilots that theres a 99% chance that the raptor will win in a fight.

Nobody has a clue what they can do, so to pre-judge them and claim you are better without the knowledge will be the downful of the raptor like it has been so many other militaries.

Are you talking out ur ass? Raptor facts are plentiful on the web, some is still classified though. Give me the name of the aircraft that you honestly believe can beat the raptor.

Ignorance of another Nation and its capablity is not something the American Army should have and I doubt any of the pilots would think they are the "best" because they are not that foolish.

Many pilots believe they are the best. Theres a fine line between ignorance and confidence.
And you seem to think Russia is still an almighy super power...which it isn't.

[edit on 27-10-2005 by Murcielago]

USA = Terran
Russia = Protoss
China = Zerg

That clarify things a bit?

And btw = I always owned when I played Terran....

ahhh good ol starcraft can teach me so many of lifes lessons.

Originally posted by Odium
One European Nation out of how many though and where did they say that?

Dude, THE COMPANY THAT MAKES EUROPES BEST FIGHTER EVEN ADMITS THE RAPTOR IS BETTER!!!

How thick headed are you?!?

Again, everyone agrees BUT YOU!

Chill out NOW.

Chill out yourself, mr Shouty.

Man, I didn't start this thread to get people to argue who has the Best Fighter out their. But it's been fun to read. I just thought it was interesting they used the center bays for bombs. When I worked this project before I retired, all we talked about was getting the Aim-9X up and running on it. To me this is a big achievement, even you don't agree. The talk before was putting the bombs on pylon stations on the wings not the center bays. Yes, I know that would take away from the stealth array, which is why I think this was a big achievement. Again I have to agree with the 95% of the people here that the Raptor is unmatched at this time. Even if you don't agree, I respect that, but if the time ever comes to a showdown, and it will soon during one of the future Red Flag competitions, in which almost all worthy aircraft compete, the Raptor will not fail. Good Luck though. But that is just my opinion of course.