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Why is the US dollar in freefall and the US government keeps spending like NO TOMORROW.

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posted on Oct, 24 2005 @ 08:10 PM
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because fiat currency is becoming a commodity (just like everything else.)

Sure, dollar has declined to 12 cents or whatever measure you want since 1950. But so what. So has every other currency in recent history.

Look at the price of grain over the same time period. Wheat at $2.47 a bushel at the end of WWII. And within a dollar of that now. That represents a huge surge in American production ability that more than offsets the declining value of an individual buck.

What the headlines meant (last year) was that the dollar was supposed to be in a free fall against other currencies. I'm saying it is not the case. If I'm wrong, show me a graph of THAT, instead of posting a nonsequitor about the futility of government specie.

I will agree with you that fiat currency is a ponzi scheme, if that is what you're getting at. But that is true world-wide. Nobody is on the gold standard, except a few individuals, and they'll get screwed if they don't wake up to the fact that Everything is a commodity!

Nothing has any inheren't value! It is only worth what you can sell it to a fool for.

Vanity of vanities, says the Preacher, All is Vanity. ---Ecclessiastes 1:2




posted on Oct, 24 2005 @ 08:33 PM
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Originally posted by Munro_DreadGod
Over the last few months I have been noting with interest the rather strange behaviour of America's politicians. Not in their everyday activities but in the complete ignorance of whats going on with the US currency.

The US deficit is at roughly 7.2 trillion and growing and has the belt been tightened, no. Major companies and other countries are bailing out of the dollar into Euros.Recently Bill gates has dumped the dollar and hes no fool when it comes to money. Iraq is costing millions, Afghanistan costs Dollars, etc, etc.

So when is the Dollar train going to come to a halt, have they increased taxes or come up with plans? I could go on for a while about exports not matching imports etc. My point is does the government of the US know something we dont. In my opinion they do but i dont want to go down the road of Armageddon.

What possible conspiracy are the money men working and why? Thats the question...........Any answers or ATS members putting me in my place welcomed?


Factors: Bush is a “faith based” president, Bush and most of his cabinets are not even qualified anyway (they won through faith connections) certain industries are getting rich, certain firms are making big profits from charging Americans interest rates (including debt).

If the dollar crash, we will only have our assets, and point to a scapegoat(s) to justifiy military actions, or the New-Deal. I really hate to say this but philosophically speaking, I think most americans will be led like goats by our own government.

If the government know something we don’t then they better justify their actions. We have to remember they are our servants.



posted on Oct, 24 2005 @ 09:29 PM
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because fiat currency is becoming a commodity (just like everything else.)


Oh well, every paper currency has inflated itself out of existence, and so will this one and many others.



posted on Oct, 24 2005 @ 09:53 PM
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Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
What the headlines meant (last year) was that the dollar was supposed to be in a free fall against other currencies. I'm saying it is not the case. If I'm wrong, show me a graph of THAT, instead of posting a nonsequitor about the futility of government specie.


US will be borrowing hundreds of billions merely to service existing debt.
Keyword here is "debt trap". Best hope China keeps servicing the dollar too


Your familiar with the US Dollar index right?





You can play the "dollar bull" all you want, just watch out for the riptide
surfing that forex ocean and thinking helicopter money will pull you out.



[edit on 24-10-2005 by Regenmacher]



posted on Oct, 24 2005 @ 10:43 PM
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Originally posted by Regenmacher
You can play the "dollar bull" all you want, just watch out for the riptide
surfing that forex ocean and thinking helicopter money will pull you out.


Nice reference to new FED Chairman Paul Bernanke there (Financial Sense and wiki)...


A couple more graphs:



Hmmm... 1930's vs. 2003...

and



Greenspan was appointed by Reagan in the early 80's - NICE JOB!


Thanks to the moneyed class Greenspan will go down in history as a "financial wizard" and Bernanke has promissed to keep the same policies


Welcome to the death of the middle class.
.



posted on Oct, 24 2005 @ 10:57 PM
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I say thee NAY, Doomsayers and Soothsayers!

You point out only what suits thy needs, while ignoring other unmentioned aspects:





Why America’s Debt Burden Is Declining






seekerof



posted on Oct, 25 2005 @ 02:52 AM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
I say thee NAY, Doomsayers and Soothsayers!

You point out only what suits thy needs, while ignoring other unmentioned aspects.

There's no such thing as a free lunch, said the bear to the ostrich.

Same Heritage Foundation said "No Evidence for Global Warming" 1/22/98
www.heritage.org...

First chart in regards to comparing WW2 debt to the present: No one would of suggested we should of balanced the debt coming out of a depression and let Hitler invade as an alternative.
•The Reagan/Bushes erased 25 years of progress in paying down the national debt.
•The central banks of Japan and China didn't hold a huge postion in US treasuries back in the 40's.

More relevant view in regards to debt:


Heritage foundation left out government debt in the last chart, plus it's old. Does look better that way as in rah-rah-sis-boom-facade. Must be that creative bookeeping agenda that can't show how the Fed tripled their debt in the last several years among many other things. Joe consumer best not trust a neocon foundation started by a beer company and funded by Exxon to get the facts from or he shall soon be Joe slave class.

As for something "recent", Heritage Foundation did a 180º and now screams for fiscal responsibility...so much for that article about debt burden declining.

Feulner: A Line in the Sand on Federal Spending


Congress and the President face a critical test. The American people are calling for fiscal sanity. The question is: Can Washington muster the political spine to act responsibly? I am optimistic that our elected representatives can, with courage, lead us on the right path.

We cannot tolerate passing along enormous debts to our children and grandchildren just so politicians can continue to pass out pork back home.



Public Debt aka National Debt as of 10/21/2005 $8,009,131,433,464.30
www.publicdebt.treas.gov...
Gross Domestic Product is at $11.1 trillion (annualized and adjusted for inflation)


research.stlouisfed.org...






home.att.net...

In 4 years we went from a budget surplus to all time record deficit, nothing like mortgaging our children's future. Don't even have to throw in Refco debacle, the boomers retiring, credit bubble, and/or energy prices rocketing to see a meltdown coming. Don't look to Congress to save your assets either, since they're making crap up as it comes along to keep the US economic ship from sinking.

Hawks circling as US prepares for adjustment

Dollar Falls as Bush Names Bernanke to Succeed Greenspan at Fed

Bernanke – On the Road to Disaster?

The Dollar, Gold and Stagflation - Greenspan's Conundrum


Time to eat the mad cows...burp

[edit on 25-10-2005 by Regenmacher]



posted on Oct, 25 2005 @ 02:56 AM
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But don't the state governments and the federal government get hundreds of billions in investment etc. surplus ? At least according to Walter Burien and others, such profits can be viewed in the pre 1999 CAFR's (Comprehensive Annual Financial Reports)

www.cafr1.com...
www.cafrman.com...

I also have a small documentary on this subject. I'll try to put it on the net asap.

But however, the fact is that they're driving up the deficit and driving down the economy, for some reason. Economic slavery perhaps? Dunno for sure though.

[edit on 25/10/2005 by SwearBear]



posted on Oct, 25 2005 @ 12:35 PM
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We can throw in quite a few points of view about the dollar (as well as graphs, reports, etc.) In reality though the US dollar IS THE international standard at the moment. With the way Bush is going I can see this changing and you don't need to research deeply to see others (some of them very rich indeed) are noticing if god forbid major countries like China dump the dollar then it will be freefall time. This is an opinion maybe not a viable one in certain members eyes (you know who you are).

After the cold war the Russians admitted it was constant military spending which bankrupted the regime and led to a collapse of Communism (short explanation, they were skint). I thought maybe this financial problem was a delayed response to the cold war, on the US. It seems strange to me even though the cold war ended, I believe US military spending has continued at a good pace, where other countries have reduced military spending.

Maybe some US military supporters will say the US keeps the peace

although it seems to me they do start a few as well. If the US reduced it's military spending other countries like China may do so as well. For a country that does not have a decent health service for the poor this would be a good idea. Still who knows whats in the future with Pres Bush.

SYRIA, IRAN, N-KOREA? I wonder if Doc Strangelove will continue in Financial markets with the dollar when the bugs hit the fan.

mod edit for censor circumvention

[edit on 25-10-2005 by DontTreadOnMe]



posted on Oct, 25 2005 @ 06:53 PM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
You point out only what suits thy needs, while ignoring other unmentioned aspects:


Seeker, Seeker, Seeker....

Your graphs pertain to Federal debt only (makes sense since it's from a fed report for the president). My graphs are for total debt: i.e. Federal, State and Local Governments as well as business and individuals. Who is leaving details out?

What your graphs do serve to show is that the debt burden over the last 20 odd years has been unproportionally downloaded to the state and local levels and onto (I'm guessing) the middle class. Something people (esp. the democrats) have been screaming about since the Reagan and Greenspan voodoo economics years. I guess that's what they meant by "trickle down".

But thanks for jumping in and making that point for us.



.



posted on Oct, 26 2005 @ 01:14 AM
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Forgive me as this may not be at all correct but doesnt a depreciated dollar make the US more competitive on the manufactuing level as the premium of the us dollar is less and less of a factor? Wouldnt this make it cheaper to compete in teh world market for the manufacturing sector as they would be able to export at a cheaper price compared to other markets? Forgive me if im wrong but isnt a low dollar value good for exports? Could it be that this was a sort of plan to encourage the growth of national manufacturing? (i know that a weak dollar causes investors to shy away but with how much money the us gov is spending it would mitigate the risk right?)



posted on Oct, 26 2005 @ 09:36 AM
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For Brown and company.

The investor is being shown a graph for "our company." (a competitor)

The shill is saying, "As you can see, we are the lowest on this graph."

The investor says "why isn't Brown on the Graph."

"Because they're too low; it'd ruin the chart."

"So . . . who made the chart?"

*another guy walks in* "I did. Hi; my name is 'Selective research.'"


[disclaimer: I don't support or recommend ANY stockbroker. ]

This is where we are here in this thread.

Now. Whether you disagree with my views or not is really moot. The real question is: what are you doing about YOUR beliefs? Are you just carping, or are you profiting from the shape of things.

Actually I'm working on an textbook on speculation that I hope to have published by next Summer.

Since this will be my last post on this (rapidly degenerating) thread, here's where I'm coming from:

- No thing has any inherent value. Not dollars, not gold. It is worth only what you can trade it to for someone who is gullible enough to buy it from you.

- There is no such thing as an investment. There is only speculation. Even if you Buy US EE savings bonds, you are speculating on the future financial standing of the United states.

- Markets are not driven by fundamentals. They are driven by the net decisions of investors. 99% of those decisions are made emotionally.

- "Fundamentals" do not exist, they are the rationales used by traders to try and give weight to their emotionally-driven biases and conclusions.

- News does NOT drive markets. Traders interpret news based on their underlying beliefs. Examples include November 1963, October 1986, and September of 2001. In all three of those disasters (Presidential assasination, space shuttle crash, and terrorist attack) the markets continued doing what they were already trending anyway. In 1963, the marked went UP, even though the leader of the free world had been killed by a possible conspiracy. On the day the shuttle crashed, there were rumors of Chinese sabotage; yet the market went up anyway. In 2001, the market was closed for a week, to "protect investors." If you draw a line on the graph of September 2001, you'll see that the market opened the next week in a direct line with the trend on September 10, as if the news event had not happened or changed public opinion in the least.

-The price of any commodity (oil, gold, dollars) is determined by the hopes and fears of buyers and sellers.

-Every market has three phases, which I will explain in depth in my fortcoming book. While I search for more technical nomenclature, I have named these three phases "Greed," "Hope," and "Fear." These three factors can be found in all forms of exchange.

Anyway, I hope you're all doing something about your beliefs.

The best path is to prepare for you beliefs to come true, factoring in the possible costs if you are wrong.



posted on Oct, 27 2005 @ 04:33 AM
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Originally posted by SwearBear
I also have a small documentary on this subject. I'll try to put it on the net asap.

Here ya go:
www.megaupload.com... (144MB)

Those are just a few parts that I cut out of the documentary, download the full documentary here, with a Bittorrent client:
thepiratebay.org...

Or www.prisonplanet.tv... (I guess)

[edit on 27/10/2005 by SwearBear]



posted on Oct, 27 2005 @ 06:42 PM
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Is it me or does anyone else think the US/UK might be gearing up for some more oil dealing in the middle east (lol). Hope not, but got to prop the dollar up somehow.



posted on Oct, 27 2005 @ 08:40 PM
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Originally posted by Super Strokey
Forgive me as this may not be at all correct but doesnt a depreciated dollar make the US more competitive on the manufactuing level as the premium of the us dollar is less and less of a factor? Wouldnt this make it cheaper to compete in teh world market for the manufacturing sector as they would be able to export at a cheaper price compared to other markets? Forgive me if im wrong but isnt a low dollar value good for exports? Could it be that this was a sort of plan to encourage the growth of national manufacturing? (i know that a weak dollar causes investors to shy away but with how much money the us gov is spending it would mitigate the risk right?)


It is not as simple as they want you to think. For starters, unless the citizens of other countries make more money, lowering the dollar value will not accomplish anything. In case you don't know, most countries are POOR. Another factor is that US citizen's income are not keeping up with the decline of dollar's value. It can be good or bad. The trick is to make the dollar drop while citizens won't loose purchasing power (like Japan). BTW, China found ways to make their products cheaper, mainly because most of their citizens can buy products cheaper with out depreciated tactics of Japan. Example: you can make a good meal for 10RMB, in contrast, you can make the same good meal for 1000 yen in Japan, and in contrast, you can make the same meal here for 10 US dollars. $10=1000 yen, $10=81 RMB. Get it?



posted on Oct, 27 2005 @ 11:40 PM
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Originally posted by Inhotep

Originally posted by Super Strokey
Forgive me as this may not be at all correct but doesnt a depreciated dollar make the US more competitive on the manufactuing level as the premium of the us dollar is less and less of a factor? Wouldnt this make it cheaper to compete in teh world market for the manufacturing sector as they would be able to export at a cheaper price compared to other markets? Forgive me if im wrong but isnt a low dollar value good for exports? Could it be that this was a sort of plan to encourage the growth of national manufacturing? (i know that a weak dollar causes investors to shy away but with how much money the us gov is spending it would mitigate the risk right?)


It is not as simple as they want you to think. For starters, unless the citizens of other countries make more money, lowering the dollar value will not accomplish anything. In case you don't know, most countries are POOR. Another factor is that US citizen's income are not keeping up with the decline of dollar's value. It can be good or bad. The trick is to make the dollar drop while citizens won't loose purchasing power (like Japan). BTW, China found ways to make their products cheaper, mainly because most of their citizens can buy products cheaper with out depreciated tactics of Japan. Example: you can make a good meal for 10RMB, in contrast, you can make the same good meal for 1000 yen in Japan, and in contrast, you can make the same meal here for 10 US dollars. $10=1000 yen, $10=81 RMB. Get it?



I forgot to take purchasing power into consideration, knew i missing something. Thanks



posted on Oct, 28 2005 @ 01:26 AM
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I don't blame your Government. Americans are mostly to blame. You have to stop this tyranical tenure. But most Americans don't seem to be revolting against Bush. You, the PEOPLE, have to change it. Look to yourselves. If that means cheating your Gov or whatever, change MUST happen. You guys are well over 6 trillion in the hole. What a fucxing joke. No money for social security. You should skin Greenspan...



posted on Oct, 28 2005 @ 08:27 PM
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check out globalresearch.ca... for an interesting although well talked about angle.



posted on Oct, 28 2005 @ 10:11 PM
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Originally posted by Munro_DreadGod
My point is does the government of the US know something we dont.


Yup. You got it. Now all we have to do is realize the cumulative play of events and discern what it is that they may know.

Keep in mind the players aren't relevant....Bush, Blair, even Greenspan.....irrelevant. What is relevant is the people. The hordes of individuals in any given country that are currently the backbone of our entire civilization.

And what major currency change has occurred recently? Oh Yeah.....the Euro. An economic concept meant to unify an entire continent (for all intents and purposes) into a single union so as to simplify international exchange and interaction. If anyone here on this conspiracy site hasn't considered the possibility of a shadow world government, then the recent success of the euro would not come as a surprise.....and I'm not surprised.


Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
Nothing has any inheren't value! It is only worth what you can sell it to a fool for.


And here is the relevant quote......the term value is an abstract. Being an abstract, the only real meaning it has is on a personal level. There's the genius. A general term that relates to everyone on an individual basis dependent on their own personal economic standards. So, broken down, the only real value that can be applied to any financial standard is time. Or, more specifically, promised time.

And that is pretty much what debt means. Promised time. It is the application of a high probabililty that said entity will apply their time to make good on a previous spent and experienced manifestation of time and effort. Nothing more.

To be frank, being in debt is actually benefitial for the world economy.......it means that cooperative parties must continue to cultivate a mutual realization (be it trade, service, or pruely abstract) to further each other's ends. What would happen if everyone were squared up? We'd all be sitting wondering what to do...no pressure...

As such.....I do not often worry about the economic state of our country....just my own personal issues....(that's not to say that I don't recognize indirect hardships imposed as result of world events....
)



posted on Oct, 28 2005 @ 11:58 PM
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and when the increase in technological output is equivicle to the standard economic structure on the global basis, that is the means to which our governmnet will propagate a one world currecny, hence the new world order. what they know is how to concur military tech with future tech so as to control the entire populace by furnishing corperate resourcfulness.




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