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Faith Without Works

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posted on Oct, 18 2005 @ 12:37 PM
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Can an individual be saved by faith alone? This is a hotly contested issue in the Christian community, and actually caused a schism in the Church several hundred years ago. James proposes this very question in James 2:14: "What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him?" Therein lies the debate. In my study of scripture, I would say it is possible such faith could save them.

In Colossians 1:22-23, Paul states:


22But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 23if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.


Paul states here in his letter to the Colossians that it is faith that causes us to be holy in God’s sight, without blemish and free from accusation. Paul says faith is what saves us, but James says faith without works is dead. So, what is faith?

Webster’s defines faith as, "belief and trust in and loyalty to God". Faith is more than just belief, but also loyalty. In being loyal to God, we are essentially commanded to follow the instructions posed in the scriptures.
Which speaks louder to you, someone talking about their faith, or someone displaying their faith through their deeds? If you’re anything like me, you’re far more moved by someone displaying his or her faith in action. In many cases, the "practice what I say, not what I do" stance turns people away from Christ, as people see us as arrogant hypocrites. So without those works, we actually push people away from Christ, which is not displaying loyalty to Him.

So it appears faith without works is dead. Yet, what about a deathbed conversion? Someone who has not had an opportunity to do any good works because, after they realize that Christ is the answer and, in their heart, accept Him, dies. Is that person condemned because they did not do good works? Scripture clearly states that no, they are not condemned. In Luke 24:40-43, we have the story of the thief hanging on a cross next to Christ. This is a man who did something or many things so awful that he received the ultimate Roman punishment, one geared towards exacting the maximum excruciating pain, and wasn’t even an option for Roman citizens. He says to Christ, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom." Christ responds by telling him that he would be with Him in paradise that very day.

The thief isn't going to be judged on his Works, since there were none, so he got a free ride into heaven, but people who are Christian all their lives gain their salvation by good works?! No, James is talking about faith in James 2:14-26, and different types of faith. He is not talking about works being the way we get into heaven. James is talking about faith on fire, and how to maintain that fire. When you start a campfire, you start with fuel (wood) and often some kind of kindling. That kindling lights up immediately, and starts a good fire going. However, if you do not continue to add fuel to the fire, it will start to smolder and eventually go out.

So, what does this mean? How do we apply it? Faith is both belief and loyalty to God. If we believe in God, but continue in the same way we had before we recognized Him, how are we being faithful to the Word? (Remember, the gospel of John opens with, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.") By working for Him, being loyal to what He wants us to do, by communicating with Him at least daily, by living the life, we grow closer to Him. Our faith increases as we work for Him. This is the point James was making. Works are the fuel that keeps our fire burning.

Is our salvation dependant on good works? No, it is faith, on fire, that saves us. As Christ said to John in his vision, "So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth." (Revelation 3:16) To keep that faith on fire, we must practice good works, and be loyal to the Word, or God. Faith saves us, but works help us keep that faith.

EDIT: Made it a little easier to read

[edit on 10-18-2005 by junglejake]

[edit on 10-18-2005 by junglejake]




posted on Oct, 18 2005 @ 01:31 PM
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Wow, you don't believe in bringing up the easy questions, do you JJ? Well, who am I to point fingers for that eh?


Well, I'm going to play the familiar Christian game that's called "Jesus says". Here's how it works. I say, Jesus says "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." (John 3:16) then nobody gets to say otherwise
. Fun game huh? That belief is not a deed, rather it is faith. That's the qualifier for eternal life. There is no "but" or "as long as you" and "oh by the way you must do", etc.

But! But! What about James' "faith without works is dead"?

James is exactly right. There is no conflict with John 3:16. When something is "dead" it means it does not move or breathe. He's not saying you are dead, rather your faith is. If you do nothing with salvation then it does nothing for anyone else. Yeah, you may have your guarentee, but how are you going to explain to God that you were hording the gift of eternal life?

Then, there's Jesus saying "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations..."?

This isn't a request. This isn't a "if you feel like it". It is a command. What do you think of having a worker at your company who does nothing? Yeah, you're employed but at then end of the day, you should be able to account for your minutes you'd spend there (hopefully because you love and appreciate who you work for). If you need help with this command, U2U me, I'll do my best to help.

So my long and short answer is:
1st you need faith
2nd you need to act on that faith.
3rd acting will strengthen your faith
4th the faith will help your future actions

It kind of reminds me of a car engine. A lot of us have a hard time turning the key, others have a hard time applying the gas. But, once you get rollin' you'll meet many people in and from many places on the road He wants you to be.

Anywho Sanctus Real has a pretty rockin' song that illustrates the realtionship between the two pretty well (sound clips included at the website). I saw them in concert and it was awesome. Oh, right, the lyrics. Here they are:

"Yeah, Mr. Deeds has got you wrapped around his finger
With what you think you need to do to be delivered
You look for accidents so you can be the hero
You wrote the charity check that ends in double zeros
You help old ladies cross the street,
You welcome homeless where you sleep
You give to everyone in need,
You even hold a city key
Aren't you great?
But that's not good enough

If you don't have faith you have nothing at all
If you don't have deeds your faith will fall
They can't be true without each other
you can't have one without the other

You think that faith is where you sit in a sunday morning
You've got a front row seat where you can be seen snoring
Throughout the week you live your life inside a bubble
You find your happiness avoiding people's thoughts
Your life revolves around yourself,
You don't treat others very well
You say your faith will get you by and that
you won't be left behind
You might be right, but that's not good enough

If you don't have deeds you have nothing at all
If you don't have faith your deeds will fall
They can't be true without each other
You can't have one without the other

You know I can't see thinking
That I'd be better off living just for selfish ambition, no
I know that faith is more than just believing
We should do the right
Things, for the right reasons"

Pray, train, study,
God bless.

[edit on 18-10-2005 by saint4God]



posted on Oct, 24 2005 @ 02:28 PM
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I think it's broke JJ. This thread hasn't been runnin' for a few days now. Either that or we're undisputably right. I vote for the latter
.

Pray, train, study,
God bless.




[edit on 24-10-2005 by saint4God]



posted on Oct, 24 2005 @ 10:07 PM
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I hope that I have the right words to be able to express my thoughts on this subject.

Jake is right in his analysis. If I understand what he is saying. He actually comes the closest to what has been in my mind for a very long time.

I think that we believe the same thing only in different words. Faith first, yes. Saint, no one can argue about that. But, here is where my thoughts differ.

All who believe are saved. That is your term and it's OK and true. But, when you are "Saved" doesn't Jesus expect you to follow His commands? "Love your neighbor like yourself." "What you do for him you do for Me." These actions are what we call "works". And no, we do not believe that you can get into heaven by just doing "good works". You must be doing good works because Jesus has commanded us to. And to please Jesus we do them. Now, when you are saved by "faith" do you not also try to please Jesus? Is Jesus happy if you go out and murder someone and do not repent. I can't understand how if you believe and love Jesus you could go out and murder someone anyhow. So doesn't that negate the fact that you are "saved"?

Whew! Even if I haven't expressed myself well I hope you get the picture because I have wanted to discuss this for years.



posted on Oct, 24 2005 @ 11:33 PM
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Faith / Works !!!!!!!!!

I Hear that Faith will cause works,, You can be with God with Faith and Works But if you only do works, You will never see Heaven..

Faith + Works = Heaven

Faith = Heaven

Works = Nothing

How can you think that only works will work , But through faith you will do the works, and the works without faith is dead !!!!!!!!!!!



posted on Oct, 25 2005 @ 06:50 AM
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Originally posted by jfdarby
Faith / Works !!!!!!!!!

I Hear that Faith will cause works,, You can be with God with Faith and Works But if you only do works, You will never see Heaven..

Faith + Works = Heaven

Faith = Heaven

Works = Nothing

How can you think that only works will work , But through faith you will do the works, and the works without faith is dead !!!!!!!!!!!


I think that is what I said.


by Mahree: These actions are what we call "works". And no, we do not believe that you can get into heaven by just doing "good works".


Edit quote by Mahree

[edit on 10/25/2005 by Mahree]



posted on Oct, 25 2005 @ 06:53 AM
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Delete double post by Mahree

[edit on 10/25/2005 by Mahree]



posted on Oct, 25 2005 @ 07:13 AM
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Originally posted by Mahree
Now, when you are saved by "faith" do you not also try to please Jesus?


Sure, but what if you're out of time?


Originally posted by Mahree
Is Jesus happy if you go out and murder someone and do not repent. I can't understand how if you believe and love Jesus you could go out and murder someone anyhow. So doesn't that negate the fact that you are "saved"?


I think it's a "tell-tale" sign of the heart. If you intentionally murder someone, then everyone else can see there's something missing in your life (meaning God). HOWEVER! You do not have to murder someone for God to be missing in your life in different moments. "You have heard that is was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgement. But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgement." (Matthew 4:21) Jesus says in essence, "Don't even think it!", meaning anger, because that too is a sin. How many times have you been angry? I've murdered many family, friends and people I don't even know in my heart according to Jesus. There will be many, many times we will sin and no wo/man will ever see it.


Originally posted by Mahree
Whew! Even if I haven't expressed myself well I hope you get the picture because I have wanted to discuss this for years.


Oh good! Then by all means, let's discuss



posted on Oct, 25 2005 @ 08:16 AM
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Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by Mahree
Now, when you are saved by "faith" do you not also try to please Jesus?



by saint: Sure, but what if you're out of time?


Do you mean like Dismas? He did repent before he died. Do we know that Jesus does not give all that same option? What is your answer?


Originally posted by Mahree
Is Jesus happy if you go out and murder someone and do not repent. I can't understand how if you believe and love Jesus you could go out and murder someone anyhow. So doesn't that negate the fact that you are "saved"?



by saint: I think it's a "tell-tale" sign of the heart. If you intentionally murder someone, then everyone else can see there's something missing in your life (meaning God). HOWEVER! You do not have to murder someone for God to be missing in your life in different moments. "You have heard that is was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgement. But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgement." (Matthew 4:21) Jesus says in essence, "Don't even think it!", meaning anger, because that too is a sin. How many times have you been angry? I've murdered many family, friends and people I don't even know in my heart according to Jesus. There will be many, many times we will sin and no wo/man will ever see it.


This is true, but I know when I am angry with others and I know what Jesus has said about that. Not only anger but gossip, yes? That effectively "kills" too. I do repent when this happens and try very hard to not let it happen again. Over the many years I think that I have gotten a little bit better. I only used murder as an example to ask what happens when one is "saved" but commits murder and does not repent?



by saint: Oh good! Then by all means, let's discuss


Over to you saint4God



posted on Oct, 25 2005 @ 08:23 AM
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Originally posted by Mahree
Do you mean like Dismas? He did repent before he died. Do we know that Jesus does not give all that same option? What is your answer?


Ya. Repenting right before you die does not give the opportunity to "rally points" by good works. It looks like that person gets to heaven the same as the life-long Christian charity worker.


Originally posted by Mahree
This is true, but I know when I am angry with others and I know what Jesus has said about that. Not only anger but gossip, yes?


Yes.


Originally posted by Mahree
That effectively "kills" too. I do repent when this happens and try very hard to not let it happen again. Over the many years I think that I have gotten a little bit better. I only used murder as an example to ask what happens when one is "saved" but commits murder and does not repent?


Ooh, tricky one! Suppose someone died right after murdering out of a lapse of not having God. Would a Christian ever have such a lapse? Hm.... Now we're getting into the fine print I think. Anyone else wanna chime in while I give it some thought?

Pray, train, study,
God bless.



posted on Oct, 25 2005 @ 08:45 AM
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Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by Mahree
Do you mean like Dismas? He did repent before he died. Do we know that Jesus does not give all that same option? What is your answer?



by saint: Ya. Repenting right before you die does not give the opportunity to "rally points" by good works. It looks like that person gets to heaven the same as the life-long Christian charity worker.


Doesn't seem fair does it. But isn't the scripture about the laborers who started at different times during the day, including at the last minute, but got the same pay as the laborer who worked all day, the same thing? I'm sorry but I have not memorized and cannot quote the verse without looking it up. Anyhow, wasn't the answer to the complaints of the laborer who worked all day that he got exactly what he agreed to when he started work and if the vineyard owner wanted to change the rules during the day that was his option? All this is paraphrased from out of my head, but accurate I hope.



I only used murder as an example to ask what happens when one is "saved" but commits murder and does not repent?



by saint: Ooh, tricky one! Suppose someone died right after murdering out of a lapse of not having God. Would a Christian ever have such a lapse? Hm.... Now we're getting into the fine print I think. Anyone else wanna chime in while I give it some thought?


Well, saint I have been waiting a long time to ask these questions so I can wait a little longer.



posted on Oct, 25 2005 @ 08:54 AM
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How can you think that only works will work , But through faith you will do the works, and the works without faith is dead


That confused me


Why the grin? Because I'm going to throw a wrench into this conversation.


First, in the parable of the prodigal son, the son who stayed at home doing good works consistently didn't receive the same reward as the rebellious son. Luke 15:25-32

Now, I don't know how y'all feel about heaven, but I suspect that the scripture indicates there are various degrees of reward in heaven. After all, we are called to store up treasure in heaven, not on earth. Now for the wrench...Can we get someone else's reward in heaven? If I'm just Junglejake living my life, can I receive the reward of a prophet, or a righteous man?

Yep, straight from the mouth of Christ in Matthew 10:41:


Anyone who receives a prophet because he is a prophet will receive a prophet's reward, and anyone who receives a righteous man because he is a righteous man will receive a righteous man's reward.


Ok, now for some explaining. What does it mean to receive a prophet or righteous man? Receive does not mean believing in their words, although that is an aspect. Receive does not mean to take them into your home, either, though you certainly could. Receiving here means to take their teachings as that coming from God, and believe them in our hearts, just as we believe in Christ's gift of salvation. Faith is a lot more powerful than we realize, it has the power to change even the most stubborn heart.

Now, here's some implications of that.

We believe the righteous man by the name of Paul, in his epistles, spoke for God. We have received Paul's teachings into our hearts. According to Christ, in the book of Matthew, what does that mean?

We believe the prophets Isaiah and Jeremiah, along with several others. We wouldn't believe Christ was the savior otherwise (well, some of us, anyway). We have received their prophesy in our hearts. According to Christ, what does that mean?

So now, here we are, we have faith in Christ, and in so doing, also have received many prophets and righteous men and women, and we haven't even gotten to any works yet. According to Christ, already great is our reward!

Where do works come in, then? As I said earlier, faith has the power to change a heart. What are works? If you're lost in the woods, and will be lost there for the rest of your life though you're going to survive for another 20 years, are you hosed because you can't perform any works that impact others? Personally, I consider works anything from disciplining your mind to going to North Korea to proclaim the Gospel. They are acts both displaying and helping us to come more in line with the model of life Christ put forth. As I said in the original post, those works help keep the fire in your heart burning, and they do earn you more treasures in heaven, but as long as that faith is there and is strong you’re going to be just fine. If we gain a prophet’s or righteous man’s reward just by receiving them, how much greater a reward do we gain by just receiving Christ?



posted on Oct, 25 2005 @ 06:10 PM
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Originally posted by junglejake

How can you think that only works will work , But through faith you will do the works, and the works without faith is dead



by junglejake: That confused me


I didn't say that Jake. I believe that he misunderstood me.


by junglejake:First, in the parable of the prodigal son, the son who stayed at home doing good works consistently didn't receive the same reward as the rebellious son. Luke 15:25-32


This has always been a puzzle to me, but somewhere it says that all the angels in heaven rejoice when one sinner repents. His ways are not my ways. lol

The scripture that I mentioned above about the laborers in the vineyard who started early along with the ones who came late and all were paid the same wage. No fair, No fair! His ways are not my ways and I am very thankful that this is true.

How about when Jesus lectures Martha (who's doing all the work) saying that Mary has chosen the better way? Another puzzle: again I guess we are not to worry about who is going to get dinner. lol But , I guess the answer to that may be the scripture about the flowers of the field having the grandest raiment without doing anything.

Sorry, I could go and look up the verses and quote exactly, but the above is what I carry around in my head.


by junglejake: Now, I don't know how y'all feel about heaven, but I suspect that the scripture indicates there are various degrees of reward in heaven. After all, we are called to store up treasure in heaven, not on earth.


Yes, I can agree with this understanding.


by junglejake: Now for the wrench...Can we get someone else's reward in heaven? If I'm just Junglejake living my life, can I receive the reward of a prophet, or a righteous man?

Yep, straight from the mouth of Christ in Matthew 10:41:


Anyone who receives a prophet because he is a prophet will receive a prophet's reward, and anyone who receives a righteous man because he is a righteous man will receive a righteous man's reward.


Mother Angelica from EWTN explained this to us several years ago. It is pretty neat, huh? It was the same explanation that you give. I won't quote yours here but anyone interested should go to the above post and read it. It is good news!

Now lets get back to those questions I asked. I don't understand how someone can be saved forever when they are not following the commandments of Jesus. Yes, we sin, and make bad choices and I am thankful that if we repent and try to do better we are forgiven. So, can you tell me where or what I am not understanding. I do know that works will not get us to heaven. But how about the separation of the goats and the sheep? "And what you do for least of them you do for me"?

OK go for it. Straighten out my thinking. hehe



posted on Oct, 25 2005 @ 10:15 PM
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Mahree,,,,,,,

I Must have not been paying attention there, If You will let me go on this one I'll promise not to do it again.....(on purpose) Sorry...

As reading all the Post, I have been Move by the way God will give some time to repent, Like The mean person is on the death bed for 6 weeks in order to get in good with God...

And then person that is killed so fast that even they don't know whats Happen...

Each person has his own way to make it Right with God, There probly is not two the same that goes the same way...........



posted on Oct, 26 2005 @ 03:58 AM
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Originally posted by jfdarby
Mahree,,,,,,,

I Must have not been paying attention there, If You will let me go on this one I'll promise not to do it again.....(on purpose) Sorry...


It's OK. I hope you will continue to take part in this discussion.


by jfdarby: As reading all the Post, I have been Move by the way God will give some time to repent, Like The mean person is on the death bed for 6 weeks in order to get in good with God...

And then person that is killed so fast that even they don't know whats Happen...

Each person has his own way to make it Right with God, There probly is not two the same that goes the same way...........


I hope you are correct. Jesus gave Dismas the chance just before he died, perhaps we will also have a like opportunity? My hope would be to stay current with God, if possible, using the last minute reprieve for an unforeseen emergency.

Here is another thought. I have used the expression, "There but for the Grace of God go I" many times without much thought. A friend called my attention to it recently asking, "Why should you have that Grace and not someone else?" Good question. I thought about it for awhile and looked around at the people I know. Could it be that God gives everyone one the Grace, but some do not recognize it or do not want to accept it?

What are your thoughts?



posted on Oct, 27 2005 @ 12:58 PM
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Originally posted by Mahree
I hope you are correct. Jesus gave Dismas the chance just before he died, perhaps we will also have a like opportunity? My hope would be to stay current with God, if possible, using the last minute reprieve for an unforeseen emergency.


There are no guarentees, though. On top of that, if your plan is to repent on your deathbed and live life today ignoring God...What are the chances that you'll be faithful to that idea? You have recognized there might be a God, but you really don't have any faith in Christ as your savior. Plus, what happens if you're walking down the road and don't see that bus going 60 miles per hour? Not going to have much time to change your mind.


Could it be that God gives everyone one the Grace, but some do not recognize it or do not want to accept it?


What is Grace? How does He show us grace? It is true that we cannot convince someone Christianity is the true path without God opening the person's heart, but at the same time, Revelation reveals that He stands at the door and knocks. So long explanation cut short due to life getting in the way, I would say He shows the same grace...For the most part
Hopefully more to come explaining that



posted on Oct, 27 2005 @ 02:52 PM
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Originally posted by junglejake
Can an individual be saved by faith alone?


Faith without actions is dogma so i would have to say no. It's all about your deeds not your creed.



posted on Oct, 27 2005 @ 03:04 PM
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Originally posted by DaTruth
Faith without actions is dogma


The faith requirement is scripture, not dogma (John 3:16). I think a lot of people like saying the word "dogma" because is has the word "dog" in it and sounds like a relative to karma. Either that or they're Kevin Smith fans. *shrug*


Originally posted by DaTruth
so i would have to say no. It's all about your deeds not your creed.


If it were the other way, I'd have to ask (yet again on this thread) how many "good deeds" does it take to "earn" your way into heaven?

It's all about your creed, not your deeds.



posted on Oct, 27 2005 @ 10:49 PM
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My friends, it is not about faith; it is not about works. It is about divine love (agape).

Faith and works are too often thought of as different aspects of a spiritual life, but they are both reflections of God's perfect love cultivated within our hearts.

Faith is nothing more than loving God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength. It is through God's love for us and our love for Him that we are saved.

Works is nothing more than loving your neighbor as yourself. It is through our love of others that we do works. If one loves as one should, one cannot walk past one in need without offering assistance. But, it is not stopping and giving which is treasured, but the love which motivates it.

It seems that a "good Christian post" would not be complete without quoting a little scripture, so without further ado:

... and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.

[edit on 27-10-2005 by Raphael_UO]



posted on Oct, 28 2005 @ 04:29 AM
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My very dear friends in Christ,

It is my position that we are all saying the same thing, in different words.


by JungleJake: "There are no guarantees, though. On top of that, if your plan is to repent on your deathbed and live life today ignoring God...What are the chances that you'll be faithful to that idea? You have recognized there might be a God, but you really don't have any faith in Christ as your savior"


The big problem with my post is that I was being a mite factitious. When I said that I thought it would be better to "stay current with God" instead of depending on a last minute reprieve. Jake was right to correct my language. He has said that my words seemed as though I did not recognize Jesus as my Savior.

I do recognize Jesus as my Savior and that is why I believe that I show my love for Him by loving my neighbor as He has loved me. That means, to me, that I could not and would not ignore anyone who needs my help. Unfortunately sometimes I must disappoint Jesus by not always seeing or doing the right thing.

I posted:

Could it be that God gives everyone one the Grace, but some do not recognize it or do not want to accept it?


JungleJake answered:

What is Grace? How does He show us grace? It is true that we cannot convince someone Christianity is the true path without God opening the person's heart, but at the same time, Revelation reveals that He stands at the door and knocks


I think that Jake did say the same thing that I did, only with better words.

DaTruth said:

Faith without actions is dogma so i would have to say no. It's all about your deeds not your creed.


Saint4God answered:

The faith requirement is scripture, not dogma (John 3:16). I think a lot of people like saying the word "dogma" because is has the word "dog" in it and sounds like a relative to karma.


Dictionary: Dogma: a doctrine; belief; a body of theological doctrines strictly adhered to:
Dictionary: Doctrine: something taught. as the principles of a religion.

I think DaTruth is saying that you show your faith by your works and actions. (DaTruth, please correct me if I have misunderstood.)

Raphael_UO: has perhaps said it best of all.

My friends, it is not about faith; it is not about works. It is about divine love (agape). Faith and works are too often thought of as different aspects of a spiritual life, but they are both reflections of God's perfect love cultivated within our hearts.

Faith is nothing more than loving God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength. It is through God's love for us and our love for Him that we are saved. Works is nothing more than loving your neighbor as yourself. It is through our love of others that we do works. If one loves as one should, one cannot walk past one in need without offering assistance. But, it is not stopping and giving which is treasured, but the love which motivates it.


Raphael_UO quotes:

... and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.


I would like to continue with 1 Corinthians, 13: 4-7, Love is patient, love is kind. It is not jealous, (love) is not pompous, it is not inflated, it is not rude, it does not seek its own interests, it is not quick-tempered, it does not brood over injury, it does not rejoice over wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

Quote by JungleJake:

James 2:14: "What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him?"


quote by Saint4God:

For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life.

John 3: 21, But whoever lives the truth comes to the light, so that his works may be clearly seen as done in God.


Saint4God also asks:

"If it were the other way, I'd have to ask (yet again on this thread) how many "good deeds" does it take to "earn" your way into heaven?

It's all about your creed, not your deeds. "


This question gets to the heart of the "debate", faith or works. I don't think there is a magic number of "works" to do before reaching heaven. I believe that if I Love God with all my heart and soul and believe that Jesus is my Savior than I must also love my neighbor as He has loved me. And to me that means that I cannot see my neighbor in need and neglect him. This is the meaning of "works" for me. If I have faith than I must follow His commandments to care for my brothers and sisters.

I believe this scripture helps to clarify the question also:


Matthew chapter 25, The Judgment of the Nations: Verses 32 and 33: and all the nations will be assembled before him. And he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. " Verse 35,36: For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty
and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.
Verse 40: And the king will say to them in reply, "Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me."
Verse 45,46: He will answer them, Amen, I say to you, what you
did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me. And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."



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