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jesus haveing mortal qualties

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posted on Oct, 17 2005 @ 11:23 PM
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does anyone know anything about the voting process that took place to put only the books of the bible that made jesus seem immortal into it?( i think it was the catholics) (happened before the bible was mass produced to) im looking for the name of the voting process, who did it, what books were not included, and etc. any help would be much appreciated




posted on Oct, 18 2005 @ 12:54 AM
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does anyone know anything about the voting process that took place to put only the books of the bible that made jesus seem immortal into it?( i think it was the catholics) (happened before the bible was mass produced to) im looking for the name of the voting process, who did it, what books were not included, and etc. any help would be much appreciated


It's called the davinci code voting system. Sorry couldn't help myself, I think that was a fictional theory in Dan Brown's head.

Mode Edit: Fixed Quote Tags.

[edit on 18/10/2005 by Mirthful Me]



posted on Oct, 18 2005 @ 03:58 AM
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Better have a closer look at Jesus Christ,Savior-God nr 16:
www.jesusneverexisted.com...
Baloria



posted on Oct, 18 2005 @ 10:25 AM
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Originally posted by seeuathemovies
does anyone know anything about the voting process that took place to put only the books of the bible that made jesus seem immortal into it?

There was no such process.


( i think it was the catholics)

The RCC didn't exist before the bible was relatively established.


im looking for the name of the voting process, who did it, what books were not included, and etc. any help would be much appreciated


Here are a few threads that will prove very informative on this matter:
Questions on the bible!
The Conspiracy of the 'other' Gospel
Who Wrote the Bible? And Is it Still "Pure"?
Gospel of St. Thomas

and especially:
Council of Nicea - NO reincarnation, NO books of the Bible
Constantine, and the council of nicaea
Reincarnation and the bible ... an old horse flogged to death - repeatedly



Hope that helps.



posted on Oct, 18 2005 @ 10:52 AM
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I think what your talking about is the Council of Nicea. This is where Constantine wanted to unify the "Holy" Roman Empire under one religion. He had a vision/dream where he saw a cross and a voice said. "Under this you will rule". Well he followed the advice of the voice in his dream/head and assembled all of the rich and powerful popes of Rome. At that time their were two schools of thought as far as Christianity at the time. Some that thought that Jesus and God were the same and some that thought that Jesus and God were to different entities. They came to agreement that Jesus was God transcended. This please both side and the rest was history. Funny how one mans dream can change the course of human history.

gbgm-umc.org...



posted on Oct, 18 2005 @ 11:32 AM
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thanks everyone for your help. sorry i couldn't do a better job of explaining it, but dathruth got it.
thanks



posted on Oct, 18 2005 @ 06:48 PM
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Originally posted by seeuathemovies
does anyone know anything about the voting process that took place to put only the books of the bible that made jesus seem immortal into it?( i think it was the catholics) (happened before the bible was mass produced to) im looking for the name of the voting process, who did it, what books were not included, and etc. any help would be much appreciated


One of the most beatiful elements of Christianity is that Jesus agreed to live with the frailities of man, to suffer fear, thirst, pain, human joys and sorrows. We believe that He accepted this incredible sacrifice to save humans from Original Sin. It is considered to be doctrine by most - if not all Christian faiths that Christ was God who became Man. He chose to teach us, He chose to suffer, He was the Perfect Sacrifice that broke open the gates of Death and Hell and opened the Gates of Heaven for us all. His blood, His pain, his death were the coin that paid for our sins. There were several heresys that were addressed in the early years of the Church.

Nestorians: One person, two hypostases, two natures.
Catholics: One person, one hypostasis, two natures.
Monophysites: One person, one hypostasis, one nature.

Hypostasis means subtance of essence. CAtholics and Monophysites believe that Christ 's human and divine essence or source were unified. The Nestorians, a sect that was founded by Nestorius believed that there was One person - Christ, but he has has two distinct essences; that nothing Divine can be contained in an imperfect mortal shell. The differnce with Monophysites and Catholics is the concept of nature. Catholics believe that Christ had a divine and human element to his nature. Monophysites believed that there could be only one nature - one cannot distill the mortal from the divine.

How were these decisions made? a number of synods - the first indeed being hte Council of Nicea - wrestled with the controversies and schisms that were erupting in the world. A Catholic or universal - faith needed to be one with one doctrine. To understand, the best a man can understand such mysteries, required the ardous study, reflection, prayers, and discussion by learned scholars and priests.

As to the bible and what's in and what's not in, this is very much - and has always been - an examination of what was available. Remember, much of the bible was compiled in any unified form decades and in some cases centuries after Christ's death. The Dead Sea scrolls and the Gospel according to Thomas remain very controversial works that may or may not be included as doctrinal.

Sorry for the biblical history lesson.... hope this helps.



posted on Nov, 15 2005 @ 09:38 AM
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there are plenty of facts every day coming to light as to who jesus was or was not. jesus was a man from egypt bringing the osiris cult with him. that enough information to peak your interest. there is REAL information out there and its bringing to light many new things. it is sometimes hard to sort the fact from fiction. just remain to question everything and treat it like learning the real history and keep religion out of it



posted on Nov, 16 2005 @ 08:58 AM
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The Gospels in the "canon of the Bible" and the material contained in most of the NT do not contain "pure" biographical information about R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean ("Jeeezuzz") except in pieces and odd spots here and there, and most of the Greek material in the New Testament "canon" outside of the core letters of Saul of Tarsus ("Paul") was written AFTER the Jewish War against Rome (the NT canon was still being argued in terms of exact lists/contents in the west as late as 400AD) which resulted in the destruction of the 2nd Temple of Herod in AD 70, and the more strident language of the early Messianic movements to be toned down.

The Gospels themselves were teaching documents for catecumens new to the faith and read in the churches weekly as part of Liturgy (e.g. early copies of Mark for example were divided carefully into 52 sections, one per week) and relied heavilly on the Rabinnic method of exegesis known as Haggaddic Midrash which seeks to undertand the present by digging into Old Testament verses (and pseudipigraphical and apocryphal literature such as we find in the Dead Sea corpus) and teasing out their "hidden meaning" (The technical term "Midrash" is from the Heb. root D-R-SH meaning "to seek out") .

Rabinnic students today would immediately recognise the gospel material (which is used for most "biographies of the historical Jesus") as haggadic midrash and would be more likely to see the old testament verses which underlie the text in the Hebrew and the Aramaic: the early church also quoted more from the Greek OT (the socalled Septuaginta written around BC 200-100) which is different from the modern Hebrew bible based on the Masoretic vowel pointed edition of AD 980 from the codex Aleppo in Leningrad/St Petersburg.

But MIDRASH is NOT history (e.g. look at Psalm 22 and Isaiah 53 for example and see how verse for verse these OT midrashic sources "guided" the crucifixion narratives---)

None of the gospels as they stand in the texts now received were written by eyewitnesses, only the 2nd and 3rd generation of followers who survived into the 2nd century long after Jerusalem was ground to powder, and the original Nazorean Messianic urgency message of "Jesus" was no longer valid (i.e. since the Jews lost the war against Rome in AD 70).

The Greek Gospels in the canon were softened in terms of its originally seditionistic rhetoric and made more "universal", where

"Preach the Good News of the Kingdom to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel scattered among all Nations"

was morphed into

"Preach ye the Gospel among All the Nations" etc.

So we are left with less than a skeleton of this R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean seditionist (executed for political sedition (armed sword wielding during a Feast) and breach of Lex Maiestatis during the reign of the divine Emperor Tiberius in c. AD 36, which was the 100th anniversary of the Invasion of the Roman General Pompey in BC 63 into Jerusalem.

It is impossible to understand the "historical Jesus" outside of the context of the Roman Occupation of Judaea, and likewise impossible to explain his execution by crucifixioin (a Roman capital punishment reserved for political seditionists) outside of the context of the 100th anniversary of the Invasion of the Kittim (Romans) in BC 63 which ended a 100 year (relatively) self-ruling period following the Maccabean revolt and the re-capture of the Temple from Syrian Greeks under Antiochus IV (i.e. the socalled Channukkah Event in BC 163)...

The original Nazorean church of Jerusalem (which fought so bitterly with Saul of Tarsus, see Galatians chapter 2) was at its core Messianist-zionist much like the Dead Sea Scroll sects who were waiting for a Deliverer to overthrow the Kittim (i.e. the pagan goyim Romans), but this "church" (Heb. Yahad, or Community of the Sons of Light) were all but destroyed by AD 70 when the gospels came to be written.

The only effectively propagating Christianities left standing after the war were the various Pauline churches in the outlying areas of the Roman Empire e.g. Galatia, Ephesos, Corinth, Thessalonike etc. and the gnostic "churches" in places like Alexandria etc. which had no direct link to the "historical Jesus" by AD 70 (with few exceptions, such as perhaps Yohannon the Elder who may have met him in Jerusalem, and may have been a follower (tho' not one of the 12) who "inspired" the fourth gospel and may have even witnessed certain things (e.g. "out flowed blood and water: this is the disciple who saw these things." and "we know that HIS testimony is trustworthy..." in the crucifixion narratives in the 4th gospel etc.)

The "historical Jesus" would have been unattractive to Greeks outside of Palestine: his words were carefully selected when translated into Koine Greek to soften his rhetoric, although the Nazorean inspired text of the Gospel of Matthew contains some remnants of his original zionist message:

The Times of the Gentiles are Fulfilled...Repent and Believe in the Good News of the Kingdom...The Son of Man was SENT ONLY to the LOST SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL scattered among the Gentiles....Since when is it right to take the bread of the Children out of their mouths and throw it away on the dogs under the table?...

Even Luke's hotchpotch gospel ("inasmuch as many have undertaken to write an account of the things most believed amongst us...it seemed good to me also to write down an account...") mentioned : "These be the Days of Vengeance of our god..." which is a quote from the War Scroll of the Dead Sea Scrolls...

The Dead Sea Scrolls after 1947 were carefully kept from the masses (and even today some are being held back in part) especially by the Vatican who had original control over these documents because they shed waaaay too much light on the actual context of the period before the Jewish War in which R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean ("Jesus") lived...and many of the terms placed into his mouth in the greek Gospels are direct quotes from the scrolls, which contain books not in the bible (e.g. the Testaments of the 12 Patriarchs, the Book of Jubilees (or Testament of Moses), I Henoch and The Wisdom of Solomon etc. etc.)...

In other words, recovering the Historical "Jesus" is like reconstructing the Pig from the Sausage....to quote C K Barrett...!!



posted on Nov, 16 2005 @ 12:46 PM
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Originally posted by seeuathemovies
does anyone know anything about the voting process that took place to put only the books of the bible that made jesus seem immortal into it?( i think it was the catholics) (happened before the bible was mass produced to) im looking for the name of the voting process, who did it, what books were not included, and etc. any help would be much appreciated


Not completely sure (I'm at work and don't have access to my books) but it may have happened at one of the Nicean counsels. There was a lot of changes during this time, to include baptismal formula changes. Cheers.



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