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Satan is our free will?

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posted on Oct, 5 2005 @ 10:06 PM
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Interesting sidenote,

On CNN tonight they mentioned a catholic bishops conference where they publically stated for the first time that it's ok to have a non literal view of the bible.


Different source but I found a link to the story
news.scotsman.com...
we've got an atsnn thread too
www.abovetopsecret.com...


[edit on 5/10/05 by redmage]




posted on Oct, 5 2005 @ 11:35 PM
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Originally posted by Michigan_Granny
The Bible is mostly written in parables! So maybe there was never a Serpant or a Devil, maybe it is our own free will that was givin us when God created us. Could He have been explaining our human nature in a parable? Maybe the tree was a symbol. Eve heard her own mind speaking, not Satan. Just a thought that popped in my mind tonight!


A golden thought, indeed! Thank you for sharing it.

Some say the bible is of arbitrary individual understanding until the bitter end--but I no longer can agree with that. There is a hidden deeper lesson amidst its myriad of priceless education of all sorts--everything from how to treat your neighbors and what to look for when shopping for a wife to quantum physics and molecular biology. (no kidding)


But the sad irony of man's perspective and use of the bible lies in the fact that
to mention the word 'parable' or 'allegory' to someone who has not yet glimpsed the real treasure in the meat that comes after the milk--and you'd think you'd have said that John Wayne was a closet homosexual who couldn't ride a horse, shoot a Colt .45, or knock someone out with a solid right hook! How dare we not take the bible 'seriously' by saying it is full of parables or, even, *gasp* a 'parable of parables'--IMO it is an allegorical masterpiece of epic proportions that could only be spiritually derived; by evidence of its unity, harmony, and consistent developing lesson that is applicable to every soul who ever lived.

It is not a crime to view the bible as an allegorical lesson (the application of which has absolutely nothing to do with historical value or accuracy--those are physical yardsticks that matter none if the spiritual curriculum is disdained in favor of carnal 'proofs.')

The definition of allegory is

According to dictionary.com:
A visible symbol representing an abstract idea--the representation of abstract ideas or principles by characters, figures, or events in narrative, dramatic, or pictorial form.

According to Merriam-Webster Online:
The expression by means of symbolic fictional figures and actions of truths or generalizations about human existence; also : an instance (as in a story or painting) of such expression

Lastly, Etymology Online says the word origins are:
1382, from O.Fr. allegorie, from L. allegoria, from Gk. allegoria "description of one thing under the image of another," from allos "another, different" (see alias) + agoreuein "speak openly, speak in the assembly," from agora "assembly."

Truly, the only way God, who is pure Spirit--could possibly convey to man's carnal thickened skull and blinded eyes (for our own good, mind you--yet still a handicap for the interim) spiritual truths necessary for advancement beyond our present fallen state (fall from 'consciousness of Spirit and true reality') is by way of allegory! How can we perceive things which have no shape, form, or tangible substance (in the way that we reckon these things to our abilities to understand) unless they are represented in a way that we are familiar with?

************

In a sense, there is no 'devil.' Yet, in a sense, there definitely is.

God is within us, but is the 'devil' who covers that knowledge--with that which we call 'skin.' It is our delusions of separateness and of independence from one another and from our sourse and First Cause, arising directly from our particular perspective from the inside looking out of our bodies (like goldfish in a bowl--that is our illusion of our 'world') that causes selfishness, rooted in self-orientation, which lies at the heart of the matter of what most call 'sin.'

To be an 'overcomer' is to see through the eyes and heart of Christ--who overcame duality (being Spirit not consumed by fleshly delusions) and 'evil' through the unstoppable weapons of love and truth--and who showed us that we can and will live after our bodies die. We must believe that He rose, because only through that can we break free of our 'devilish' prisons and live a life of true freedom (in which the literal idea of 'free will' will become apparent as opposed to our current situation of having the 'ability to choose').



posted on Oct, 10 2005 @ 06:26 PM
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satan is something real in our life and we cant just hide this fact. satan is always trying to get u in traps and tries his best increase ur bad deeds and if ur willing to learn more u could just read the HOLY QURAN and i swear u gonna belive every word written.



posted on Oct, 12 2005 @ 10:43 AM
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You have voted queenannie38 for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

You pretty much summed it Queenannie, your view is EXACTLY what my spiritual friend has been teaching me, I'm a simple man though and am still weak in my grasp of the subject so I cant seem to convey what I've learned thus far...but you did


Satan was one of God's first angels, the lord created Satan perfectly, very smart, very tricky, and if thats not bad enough, when he rebelled he took a good number of angels with him...that do his bidding, to do against God. He is the Prince of Air, he has no physical form, a spirit undetectable by many he tempts us very subtley. On a side note that some may find interesting, recently my buddy told me he remembered reading that Satan has a love and great interest in music as well, makes you think.

God knows this and has known this since he created Satan, as someone else stated, I firmly believe that Satan is kind of a test to us, God wants all men to make decisions for themselves, not based what the adversary says.

Queenannie, I would really like to discuss some of these matters further with you sometime, I've only really observed 2 or 3 people here on ATS with your knowledge on these matters.

[edit on 10/12/2005 by JKersteJr]



posted on Oct, 12 2005 @ 10:53 AM
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The Bible was NOT mostly written in parables. Who told you that?
AS a matter of fact, your entire premise is based on false data.

I think this might be due to either not reading or maybe a comprehension problem. For example, it is clear that there is no conspiracy in this but you placed your thoughts in the conspiracies forum even though there are directions not to do that.
I'm thinking we might be getting down to the heart of the matter, the core of the problem!


I'll pass this off to the people at BTS to solve this.



posted on Oct, 12 2005 @ 11:01 AM
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I wouldn't go so far to say that its entirely in parables, but there are very many symbolic and allegory meanings and there is a reason for that. It was written that way so that only certain people, Saints and disciples, ones who had attained the spirit could understand them, the real meaning is hidden so that people like the Romans didn't find it.



posted on Oct, 12 2005 @ 11:49 AM
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Satan as I understand it is the mindset of identification with the flesh, with the ego, with our self-centered nature. Our free will can indeed be used to choose to identify with such things, or not.

However you brought a very interesting point about the tree of knowledge. Once we ate from it suddenly we had a great tool, knowledge. But with knowledge comes duality, just as the name (good and evil) suggests. If we ever want to return to "eden", we must once again go beyond duality, in a state where things ARE, rather than judged.



posted on Oct, 12 2005 @ 12:26 PM
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Originally posted by AkashicWanderer
Satan as I understand it is the mindset of identification with the flesh, with the ego, with our self-centered nature. Our free will can indeed be used to choose to identify with such things, or not.

However you brought a very interesting point about the tree of knowledge. Once we ate from it suddenly we had a great tool, knowledge. But with knowledge comes duality, just as the name (good and evil) suggests. If we ever want to return to "eden", we must once again go beyond duality, in a state where things ARE, rather than judged.


I agree with your basic principles but....are suggesting that Satan doesn't actually exist as a spirit/angel/being, but is merely symbolism? Interesting theory indeed, but I can't say thats what I've gathered from the Biblical studying I've done thus far, but then again I am early in my journey.

I was always one to believe that evil people were solely responsible themselves, for their actions, 95% of the time, but the more I read from the scriptures about who Satan is and how he works the more I believe he is actually a being that is influencing us. When I take that knowledge and look at some real life situations it really starts to make sense that maybe someone is "whispering" in our ears.

How many times have you heard about crimes that are so unbelievably wrong that you wonder how on earth any human could come to that conclusion short of having brain damage, like serial killers or cannibals for instance.

[edit on 10/12/2005 by JKersteJr]

[edit on 10/12/2005 by JKersteJr]



posted on Oct, 12 2005 @ 01:59 PM
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Originally posted by JKersteJr
I agree with your basic principles but....are suggesting that Satan doesn't actually exist as a spirit/angel/being, but is merely symbolism? Interesting theory indeed, but I can't say thats what I've gathered from the Biblical studying I've done thus far, but then again I am early in my journey.


There are some powerful beings who have awakened to darkness, although the name Satan itself I do not think refers to one of these beings, rather their mindset.



I was always one to believe that evil people were solely responsible themselves, for their actions, 95% of the time, but the more I read from the scriptures about who Satan is and how he works the more I believe he is actually a being that is influencing us.


These people are so identified with the ego, that you can say that they are not responsible. In the words of Jesus, "They know not what they do."



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