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Bush Invokes Rules of "Castle Risk" Deploying 99 "Hidden Armies" for Self Governing Iraq

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posted on Oct, 4 2005 @ 12:57 AM
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Now I'm full of "bull#". Fine moderating skills. I'm sure ATS is proud of the way you handle the Conservative members.

So-called reporters take a statement from a radio address, and scream that it is a failing situation in Iraq...when all he said was:

"I'm encouraged by the increasing size and capability of the Iraqi security forces. Today they have more than 100 battalions operating throughout the country, and our commanders report that the Iraqi forces are serving with increasing effectiveness," Bush said in his weekly radio address. Which is completely true.

Of this 100, there were 3 battalion FULLY CAPABLE of operating with ZERO US military assistance, as we learned from the US Commanders in Iraq:

During congressional testimony on Thursday, Gen. George Casey, top U.S. commander in Iraq, and Gen. John Abizaid, top U.S. commander in the Middle East, said the number of such battalions had dropped since July to one from three, out of the roughly 100 Iraqi battalions.

Obviously, the reporting pool failed to report his full testimony that he no doubt gave, which outlined WHY there is but one battalion now....which was a command change. The other two battalions are still fully trained and ready to go, but the new command will need time to catch up to the rest of the men. When that happens, Iraq will again have 3 fully combat ready battalions

This is normal, it happens with all militaries....which is a subject I know quite a bit about

Mr. Nice's further research, allowed you to see the "whole picture", rather than just a quick soundbite that left much un-answered. Combine Mr. Bush' radio address, with GENs Casey and Abizaid statements to Congress, and then use the research brought forth by Mr. Nice, and you have the complete story with all the relevent facts intact.

I realize you think I'm just full of bull#, but I thought you'd like to use ALL of the facts, rather than base your opinion on soundbites and out of context statements....but that doesn't fit your personal agenda, does it.




posted on Oct, 4 2005 @ 01:49 AM
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Originally posted by Army

I realize you think I'm just full of bull#, but I thought you'd like to use ALL of the facts, rather than base your opinion on soundbites and out of context statements....but that doesn't fit your personal agenda, does it.


They only have 3?

3 out of a total of 100 isn't something I'd be proud of either. It's like admiring the paint on the house that's burning down. Dismal and absoslutely pathetic are more words I'd use to describe the situation.
If we can scrape together 2 more, and we can finally form

THE GANG THAT COULDN'T SHOULD STRAIGHT



posted on Oct, 4 2005 @ 02:44 AM
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Festival Atmosphere


Originally posted by Army
Now I'm full of "bull#". Fine moderating skills. I'm sure ATS is proud of the way you handle the Conservative members.

There are different ways to interpret this, but I have found RANT to be nothing if not intellectually consistent.

I strongly doubt he would have addressed you in this manner on ATSNN or in pretty much any other forum, but this is the Slug-Fest forum, and while there are some things you don't want to do here, like post porn or other obviously bannable naughtiness, it's rather obvious from RANT's posts that ad hominem is A-okay here.

In general, there has been a loosening up on PTS to encourage candid exchanges on political subjects, with no "p-troll" enforcement and an apparent relaxation of "decorum" in the Slug-Fest forum.

Still not "anything goes", I take it, but some "slugging" is apparently not out of line, either.

After all, mods are expected to lead by example, so if RANT is taking off the gloves, I see no reason why he should resent your doing the same.

That is, unless he's full of bull#, of course.



posted on Oct, 4 2005 @ 03:45 AM
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Actually by the way he makes it sound they have '100' battalions that are ready to be used by the Iraqi Army however if they are fully trained they shouldn't be sent out into the field.

Also 1 isn't something to be proud of...if it takes 1 every two years you'll be in Iraq a hell of a long time.



posted on Oct, 4 2005 @ 06:22 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by RANT
... that couldn't find a civil liberty in the Constitution with CliffsNotes and a flashlight.

ROFLMAO! Do you have a list of these somewhere ar are you making them up? If so, you should be on stage!


But life isn't fair. You know, last night's new Daily Show did this joke (two days after me) showing the actual back to back clips of General Casey's Iraqi readiness assessment followed by Bush's exponentially exaggerated reassurance to the American people. All Jon Stewart had to do was pretend to do the math in his head. Everyone got it immediately. And now Jon Stewart is home in his million dollar Tribeca loft enjoying a nice manischewitz, while I'm still trying to explain it to the Army three days later.


I guess the butt of every joke doesn't need to understand why he's a butt for it to be funny or true though.

There's also all kinds of Ad hominem, and indeed another moderator (not me who happens to just be a poster in this thread) had to give up and move this to slug fest to my own posting detriment because he couldn't keep up with deleting the attacks on me and this website because this thread even existed. The "tame" off topic attacks remain I'm told.

This is what an Ad hominem attack looks like in a topic about Bush's bull#.


Originally posted by MrNice
It’s misleading threads like this started by moderators that have really convinced me that this board is a DNC / Green Party / Leftist propaganda site...

Sites like this one are VERY guilty of this...

Why do we have MODERATORS on this site who cannot do the same amount of critical analysis???

It’s amazing to me this thread was even allowed to be opened. Nothing about “Deny Ignorance” was supported in it. Indeed, “Spread Ignorance” seems to be notion supported here.



Originally posted by Army
Fine moderating skills. I'm sure ATS is proud of the way you handle the Conservative members.


I don't care who you are, when your argument begins and ends with attacks on a poster's nationality, motives, english or unrelated volunteer service to this website, you already lost the debate and deserve whatever you get in spades.

This was explained already by an uninvolved moderator acting as a moderator a page ago.

And, with apologies for the unwarranted insult to retarded people, Bush is still a 'tard.



posted on Oct, 4 2005 @ 10:20 AM
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Originally posted by RANT
But life isn't fair. You know, last night's new Daily Show did this joke (two days after me) showing the actual back to back clips of General Casey's Iraqi readiness assessment followed by Bush's exponentially exaggerated reassurance to the American people.


I saw that and thought of you. See? I told you that you should be on stage! You'd only have to work 4 days a week and all the ladies luuuuuvs Jon Stewart!

He was freaking hilarious, though! And to be fair his last show was last Thursday and all this hadn't happened yet. (I think?)



I don't care who you are, when your argument begins and ends with attacks on a poster's nationality, motives, english or unrelated volunteer service to this website, you already lost the debate and deserve whatever you get in spades.


Exactly. It's an age-old tactic of attacking the person when your argument can't stand on its own. I don't remember who, but a moderator here said something like, If you're talking about another poster, you're off topic, if you're talking about the subject, you're not.


So, I'm off-topic. So I'll get off here... in a second. Being a moderator with strong opinions and a scathing sense of humor can be a lonely position. Just know that even though you may not hear as much support as you hear criticism, there are those who look forward to reading your posts.



posted on Oct, 4 2005 @ 11:42 PM
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Sad for you. I tried civil discourse, yet you still want to be nasty and name call.

Mr. Nice and I presented all the facts, and you still failed to acknowledge them.

Bull#? You started this thread with "half-truths and lies", then bitched to your dumbass leftist followers about how the Conservatives just kicked your ass with reality...and you claim bull#?

Take out the anal probes, they apparently don't help your thought process one bit.....oops, forgot, being a leftist waddle you aren't allowed to think.

This thread was nothing more than you wanting to scream your hate, and to hell with anything that gets in the way, especially the truth.

Later loser, I'm done with you.



posted on Oct, 5 2005 @ 12:40 AM
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Originally posted by Army
Sad for you. I tried civil discourse, yet you still want to be nasty and name call.

Mr. Nice and I presented all the facts, and you still failed to acknowledge them.

Bull#? You started this thread with "half-truths and lies", then bitched to your dumbass leftist followers about how the Conservatives just kicked your ass with reality...and you claim bull#?

Take out the anal probes, they apparently don't help your thought process one bit.....oops, forgot, being a leftist waddle you aren't allowed to think.

This thread was nothing more than you wanting to scream your hate, and to hell with anything that gets in the way, especially the truth.

Later loser, I'm done with you.


Sorry you still don't get "nuance" Army, but you remain "full of it." And that's not name calling. Though once again, you contribute nothing but personal attack.

I can call prominent political figures names. So can you. But you can't directly call other members names. Certainly not off topic personal attacks anyway.

Smart debate and sharp wit are most certainly encouraged on PTS, but the TAC always apply, even in slugfest.

You may claim you think "Conservatives kicked my ass" and you even find such and such from another poster to be "bull#" with some restraint (as I expressed myself).

But you can't call other members dumbass this and that's or suggest anal probes or call people "losers" just because you're not smart enough to spar with sharp intellect.

That's all here that requires a response. You've yet to make an on topic point I haven't addressed repeatedly. People that can read know.

May Mods have mercy on your posting privileges.



posted on Oct, 5 2005 @ 12:46 AM
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Bush doesn't even know what a battalion is. Every time that guy opens his mouth - every time I see him on TV, I just wonder how people can't see the obvious clown that he is.

I've heard it said a few times that one reason they like him is because he's a 'regular guy'. I'd like to kick some of these people in the shin. Don't you think you would rather have exceptional people in positions like MOST POWERFUL LEADER ON THE PLANET?!!!

Some of us Americans have been duped. Or paid.



posted on Oct, 5 2005 @ 10:00 AM
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Originally posted by DeltaChaos
Bush doesn't even know what a battalion is.


Well, I think he does and if it's been explained to him slow enough he may even know the difference in a fully self supported Level 1 Iraqi battalion and 99 others being run, equipped and largely supported by the US Armed Forces.

The problem is he'd just rather dazzle the simple minded with obfuscating BS than come clean on our lack of progress toward US troop withdrawl.

For example, I have 100 leaf blowing battalions currently patrolling my yard. 99 of them aren't manned or equipped, but they're there in theory (as per this post). According to the Yellow Pages, it's virtually a self sustaining operation to keep the leaves out of my yard... again, in theory, and given money I don't have or wish to spend. Really, you should see my deficit. It's impressive.

Therefore the only "battalion" equipped with an actual leaf blower remains the one I lead.

But this army of one has other things to do at the moment. So although I'm not anywhere near libertated from my ever increasing yardwork obligations, my 99 imaginary yard battalion friends simply make me feel like I've got the situation under control.

Clearly I deserve a 5 week vacation away from my responsibilites. And with any luck a hurricane will solve all my leaf blowing problems while I'm out fishin'. Or it could just make things worse. Difficult to say. Yard presidentin' is hard work.



posted on Oct, 5 2005 @ 11:34 AM
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RANT, I so love your posts.

I can have the worst day in the World and come online, to ATS, read the majic you push fourth and it makes the sunshine once more...



posted on Oct, 6 2005 @ 06:04 AM
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I think the Army uses one simple Rule:

"If you do not Understand it - Shoot at it!"

Well maybe it works on the Battlefields.

But you can't shoot your Opponent in a Debate to shut him up.

to debate:
- To engage in argument by discussing opposing points.
- To engage in a formal discussion or argument.



posted on Oct, 6 2005 @ 04:44 PM
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Originally posted by Souljah
I think the Army uses one simple Rule:


No offense, how about you not contaminate yet another thread. You may disagree with the same people I disagree with, but you're not on my side.
Your post is an opportunstic attempt to cash in, and service your own agenda.



posted on Oct, 7 2005 @ 11:49 PM
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Originally posted by RANT


For example, I have 100 leaf blowing battalions currently patrolling my yard. 99 of them aren't manned or equipped, but they're there in theory (as per this post).


Geebus! Is that why you have been so beligerant? I get it now!

You honestly think there is but ONE battalion of Iraqi soldiers ready to fight? Is that your basis for this thread? If so, then it is apparent that you do not allow facts to get in your way!

I have tried to explain it. Mr. Nice has tried to explain it. But you just don't get it....or don't want to.

There are CURRENTLY, RIGHT NOW, AT THIS TIME, IMMEDIATELY AVAILABLE, over 100 Army and Police battalions of Iraqi personel in the fight against terrorism in Iraq, for Iraq. Not "imaginary", not "made up", not "half-truthed", but real live Iraqi men and women manning the lines.

Of three battalions that have been trained up to be totally autonomous of US personel in combat operations, TWO have been temporarily stood down from operations in order to re-establish the command structure...this leaves the aforementioned ONE combat ready battalion that can conduct and execute military operations with no US military assistance, guidance, or presence. This still leaves over 100 trained and equipped REAL AND ALIVE battalions that currently conduct military operations against terrorists, ostensibly with US military assistance, guidance, and presence.

THAT'S the reality. THAT'S what is really happening. No cover-up, no conspiricy, no lies or half-truths.

I realize I said before, that I was done with this thread, but until you posted the above, I didn't know that you were so full of........stuffing. NOW that I DO know that you really had no clue about the reality of this whole situation.....there really is no sense to continuing talking to a wall.



posted on Oct, 8 2005 @ 02:22 AM
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Army, in my job, if you are not trained to work alone than you are not trained. I would assume the same thing applied to the Military as well...they tend not to throw untrained people out there to do the job of trained soldiers, otherwise it'll cause a lot of problems...

So in reality, there is only 1 that can be used right now if the other 2 have been stood down.



posted on Oct, 8 2005 @ 06:52 AM
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Originally posted by Army

Originally posted by RANT


For example, I have 100 leaf blowing battalions currently patrolling my yard. 99 of them aren't manned or equipped, but they're there in theory (as per this post).


Geebus! Is that why you have been so beligerant? I get it now!

You honestly think there is but ONE battalion of Iraqi soldiers ready to fight? Is that your basis for this thread? If so, then it is apparent that you do not allow facts to get in your way!


The disconnect continues.

My basis for this thread was to provide links to two important news items. One was General Casey's testimony to the armed services committee and the reaction to same. It was significant if you saw the video and McCain's heads exploding, but the article itself quotes other Republicans concerns. Concerns over Iraqi progress is both real and valid.

The second was a link to Bush's reaction. Which was to basically say 'everything's fine.'

My presentation of these concepts is where you and I just don't meet eye to eye. I'm telling analogous jokes, and you're screaming from the back row "It's impossible to walk into a bar with a duck on your head! City Ordinance #10003 forbids livestock from public arenas where food and drink are served. I want this entire club shut down. I want the patrons arrested. And I want Jay Leno's head."



I have tried to explain it. Mr. Nice has tried to explain it. But you just don't get it....or don't want to.


Yes, you've repeatedly tried to explain what I conceded immediately and everyone already knows.

There is a continuum of Iraqi battalion combat readiness. Bush is quoting the high end of the spectrum to the public with no illumination as to what that really means. General Casey's testimony shocked the nation indeed and left much to the imagination, but Bush's response was just obfuscation. Not coming clean.

Some of those 100 battalions are pretty close to Level 1 I'm sure. Several others, though not close to independent, are still able to "lead" missions with actual Iraqi troops. Many, many others however are almost exclusively US led with merely Iraqi observers largely still in training.

Yes they're all real, alive, and all that other "City Ordinance" crazy talk you keep hammering at an audience 5 steps ahead of you. But as to the overwhelming majority of them (officially 99% of them) not being able to take over independently tomorrow...

THAT'S the reality. THAT'S what is really happening. No cover-up, no conspiracy, no lies or half-truths.




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