US troops upload photos of dead Iraqis for porn

Excerpted from:
news.independent.co.uk...

By Andrew Gumbel in Los Angeles
Published: 29 September 2005

The US military said yesterday it was opening an investigation into reports that soldiers based in Iraq were posting gruesome photographs of dead Iraqis, including explicit shots of severed body parts and internal organs, on a Florida-based website in exchange for access to the site's pay-only archive of pornography.

The photographs have outraged Arab and Muslim advocacy groups in the US and prompted human rights organisations to question whether they are not also a violation of the Geneva Conventions. They also constitute another potential public relations disaster for the United States as it continues to state publicly that it has the best interests of ordinary Iraqis at heart.

Some of the graphic website images are accompanied by openly racist comments from the soldiers who posted them. "What every Iraqi should look like," is the commentary next to a picture of a corpse whose brains and entrails are spilling out. In another image, six men wearing US Marine uniforms are smiling for the camera as they point to a burned body at their feet. The caption: "Cooked Iraqi."

*please visit above link for details*
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Lord have mercy. I am surprised that the military would even allow soldiers to take pictures of any kind, especially of battle scenes. I thought there were dedicated military photographers for that?

But morally, and clearly to me anyway, I think this is wrong. Wrong because of lack of respect for another human being's life, regardless of the differences in political and wartime actions.

Well with respect...what about the other side?
I mean...thats the question I want to ask as well...

devil, do two wrongs make a right?

I read this, its basically one of the stories that seems like a big deal on the surface, but its really nothing at all. They say no felony was made. I bet a few "be carefulls" and a slap on the wrist, but thats it.

And they guy mentions its just not porn, its other extreme stuff as well.

I dont think anything will become of this at all.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
devil, do two wrongs make a right?

Nope, but netheir does reporting one wrong make it right.

Well, I see your point devil, but that doesn't change the fact that is not right imo. Yeah, they have published lots of photos and videos of dead and dismembered Americans and other coalition soldiers. This is true. But why must we stoop to their level?

I think is very immoral what they did with the pictures.

My husband brought plenty of photos from the first gulf war with death bodies and he even stand next to some of them.

But none of those photos are circulating in the INTERNET as trophies, is something call bad taste and been disrespectful of the death.

I have those photos in my Attic where they belong away from prying eyes.

I wonder how much Havoc this news would incite in the Public, if the Tables were turned and the Title was reading like this:

Terrorists Upload Photos of Dead US Soldiers for Porn.

Good for you and your husband Marg! I am glad to see that there still are some discriminating people left on this planet.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
Well, I see your point devil, but that doesn't change the fact that is not right imo.

Never questioned that mate, I agree with you BTW.

Yeah, they have published lots of photos and videos of dead and dismembered Americans and other coalition soldiers. This is true. But why must we stoop to their level?

Thing is we didnt...
The soldiers did this frankly for their own gain...not the military's.

Originally posted by Souljah
I wonder how much Havoc this news would incite in the Public, if the Tables were turned and the Title was reading like this:

Terrorists Upload Photos of Dead US Soldiers for Porn.

Probably not a lot since there isnt that much coverage of that here.


[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]

But morally, and clearly to me anyway, I think this is wrong. Wrong because of lack of respect for another human being's life, regardless of the differences in political and wartime actions.

We live in a 'sad' world .

And 'Love thy neighbour as thyself' .........Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you,
Do ye even so to them:
For this is the law and the prophets.
(Matthew 7:12 KJV).

*Sorry for bringing Scripture into this*.

helen

Originally posted by Souljah
I wonder how much Havoc this news would incite in the Public, if the Tables were turned and the Title was reading like this:

Terrorists Upload Photos of Dead US Soldiers for Porn.

Well Souljah, at that point you'd expect if there are any decent, morally grounded people left on that side of this planet, they would want to report it, and lament it, too.

[edit on 29-9-2005 by TrueAmerican]

TA,

If only those posting these pics would pause long enough to consider that it could very easily be THEIR pics, being laid out for all to see. (i.e. family, friends, etc.)

Do they even stop to consider that what they are doing could very well be a means by which to add fuel to their opponent’s fire, hell the Internet is global and freely accessible by most of the world?

I know from my service there were a few in our squadron who entered the military with little or no morals or values to start with. I can only imagine to what depths they would stoop after being desensitized by dealing with death on a daily basis, and the effects of seeing their buddies one day being blown away the next. Not that it justifies these types of actions, nor do I feel this represents any majority (at least I hope not) of those currently serving.

As for being allowed to take pictures . . .whether allowed to or not it would prove very difficult to enforce any type of NO PHOTOS rule. With camera phones and digital cameras less than palm size and with memory cards the size of postage stamps they are very easily concealed.

IMO the worst part here is that, once again, we have a situation where the actions of a few will most likely be used in an attempt to represent the whole. I know, and have known, many active and reserve duty military members who would actually kick your before allowing this to happen. Then again, I have also known a few whom I could easily see taking these types of pictures and feeling perfectly justified for doing so.

No one can truly say what he or she would do during times of war without having actually, "been there done that". Even some with the highest regard for human life, solid religious backgrounds, etc. have been known to "crack" when faced with what many of our troops are dealing with on a daily basis. The atrocities of WAR can cripple even the soundest mind.

I just hate to see the majority being drug thru the mud by the acts of the few.

Souljah,
I do not feel it would change the fact that it is morally wrong no matter which side of the coin you are on.

Peace2All

*Apparently, this story has generated a lot of interest on the Internet as his site has been experiencing bandwidth and database issues ever since this hit the news. D.O.S. [one can only hope]:O)

[edit on 9/29/2005 by 12m8keall2c]

Originally posted by devilwasp
Well with respect...what about the other side?
I mean...thats the question I want to ask as well...

Professional soldiers taking photographs of dead people and swapping them for pornography ?

What exactly is the other side of the story that I'm supposed to sympathize with or take into account ??

Thank you for that 12m8. And I want to be clear that in no way am I suggesting with this story that these are the actions of the majority. I did not post it with that intent, and I am sorry if that is the way it came off.

I simply posted it to illustrate what I feel like is wrong. Morally wrong. But you are right, 12m8. It's easy to sit here and play armchair warrior. I know our soldiers go through living hell over there, and even the best, most morally founded soldiers can crack once witnessing the horrors of war. But once they have been through many firefights, and lived, they still have reasoning ability. They must, or else they become a danger to their fellow fighters and must be pulled out.

I am just asking, I suppose, that these soldiers who did this use some of their reasoning ability left and see that this is wrong. Your points are well taken, however, 12m8, and I hear ya.

Originally posted by Souljah
I wonder how much Havoc this news would incite in the Public, if the Tables were turned and the Title was reading like this:

Terrorists Upload Photos of Dead US Soldiers for Porn.

Uh, they have. Where have you been - for years?

There is no excuse for this; no excuse at all. These people have lost their souls to the point where they give photos of destroyed physical bodies for photos of girls who are destroying their souls so that others can pursue lewd thoughts. There is a very huge rotting problem here, and Wasp, I'm not concerned with a tit for a tat here, this story can and should stand alone. Since when should we couple our ethics and morals (the ideals upon which the nation was created, not what we see displayed) with those of others? On the same hand, should we carve the heads off of innocent people just because the other side does it? If you want to do it from one side, you'll have to compare from the other side of the SAME coin.

Wrong is worng, and comparing it to another wrong does no good.

I am seeing a continuing chain of command problem. You aren't going to tell me that the chain of command was clueless. If they were, it is because they wanted to be clueless. Every problem I've seen arise from the Iraqi operations can be attributed to a weakening of the NCO chain. A large number of NCO's people need to embrace the NCO's creed and repair our military.

IMO, the sickos that posted the pictures should be flogged with wood batons, spat upon, shatted on and then tossed in an Armenian prison for.....say 2-3 years. That sounds about right.

I don't think the military has anything to do with this and should not be held accountable. I can see it now, every muslim activist group from here to Iraq is gonna sue for millions for all the emotional damage and devastation this has caused all of them....BS. Hold the perps for thier actions, not the US.

I am surprised that the military would even allow soldiers to take pictures of any kind, especially of battle scenes. I thought there were dedicated military photographers for that?

They have Combat Camera and journalist that do that kinda stuff, most troops can still have cameras of thier own. I took a few pictures myself, nothing really graphic though.

sporty



[edit on 29/9/2005 by SportyMB]

by Souljah:
I wonder how much Havoc this news would incite in the Public, if the Tables were turned and the Title was reading like this:

Terrorists Upload Photos of Dead US Soldiers for Porn.

As TC has stated . . .

Been hearing/seeing this for years, but we certainly don't need a few of our own troops compounding the situation by providing fuel for their fires.

I for one am damned tired of watching the actions of a few miscreants within our military/society being distorted in an attempt to represent the views of the majority.

Sick, why is it that so many Americans think stuff like this is "awsome" lol, childish and totally stupid. Why is it that in a country like america the only people the majority of them give a # about is their own people. Im sorry to rant, I dont have anything against america, im just glad im not part of it.

Im sure theres alot of caring americans, its just a shame that the only ones who have a voice abuse it.

Originally posted by woodsyboy
Sick, why is it that so many Americans think stuff like this is "awsome" lol

Have you travelled much? Ever been to the states? How much of the world have you seen? Africa? Middle East? Asia? Europe? Just curious

Originally posted by woodsyboy
Why is it that in a country like america the only people the majority of them give a # about is their own people.

why is it that a country like America has so MANY VOLUNTEERS overseas third in world countries helping out. Ever heard of the Peace Corps? or USAID?...what about the salvation Army...they travel around.

ever heard of US missionaries abroad?

For some reason the US is everywhere in the world.....and ya know what? that was all civilian agencies, groups and org's that I mentioned above...mostly volunteers. We may not be perfect, far from it...but damnit so many americans (as you say) do not think that kind of stuff is "awesome"...only a few sickos, just like all countries.

And what country are you from? I'm just dying to find out

sporty



[edit on 29/9/2005 by SportyMB]