Going to War, Goering Style

All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.

Hermann Goering, Hitler's second-in-command, Nuremburg trials, 1946

The Last Refuge of a Scoundrel

Tactic sound familiar? If so, you should really read the rest of the quote on the link.

I would also like to add this quote from FDR

But I venture the challenging statement that if American democracy ceases to move forward as a living force, seeking day and night by peaceful means to better the lot of our citizens, then Fascism and Communism, aided, unconsciously perhaps, by old-line Tory Republicanism, will grow in strength in our land. - November 4, 1938

This is exactly what concerns me about the conduct of the war on terror by our government. Does anyone else see what I'm getting at?

Does anyone else see what I'm getting at?

Umm no, I don't get what you getting at. Please tell me. If this is simply another thread trying to convince the world that Bush is equal to Hitler and the Terrorists and Saddam are poor martyrs...then save your typing...we don't want to hear it!!

[edit on 26-9-2005 by 12 12 2012]

No it isn't about Bush being like Hitler, only the mindset behind the general public's support of a war. Push the right buttons, and there you go, cannon fodder!

I know everyone is walking on eggshells about the political baiting thing, but this isn't about Bush, its about the machine behind him that has our government in a chokehold. Not the Republican machine, the Military-Industrial Complex machine. Aren't we all, witting or unwitting, accomplices?

12 12- You don't speak for everyone. You and whoever else you refer to as "we" don't have to read or respond to the post. Icarus is just showing us "once again" that the tactics being used are not new. How rude of you to try to silence such wisdom

Cindy,

Thanks. Great quote from Ike in your sig. Another great man who warned about giving too much power over to the MIC.

I'm not trying to stir up trouble, just trying to make folks think outside the box and reflect on the perspective.

Originally posted by CindyfromFlorida
12 12- You don't speak for everyone. You and whoever else you refer to as "we" don't have to read or respond to the post. Icarus is just showing us "once again" that the tactics being used are not new. How rude of you to try to silence such wisdom

I was not trying to silence anyone. As we I mean the persons responible for creating the NO BAITING policy here. I am not saying that I am supporting Bush or The War Machine, I was just asking for clarification. Remember he is the one who asked " Does anyone else see what I'm getting at?" in his original post. I liked Icarus Risings repsonse to me. Thank you for clearing up MY misunderstanding of your post. Now, lets talk war machine within the United States Government. Icarus Rising
do you believe this is the same machine that has been in charge of the military since Vietnam or even WW2? What do you believe is the end goal of said machine?

[edit on 26-9-2005 by 12 12 2012]

"In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way." -- Franklin D. Roosevelt

i hear you IC. it's not about bush being like hitler...i think it is more like the current u.s. citezenry being like 1930's german public. a public made scared by the great violence perpetrated on them by the govt...er, I mean terrorists. it's about manipulation of the public at the highest levels...a forced changing/manipulating of a society....it just so happens that the nazis were masters at this and the techniques used back then are being used now.........................

Originally posted by Icarus Rising
Does anyone else see what I'm getting at?

I see exactly what you're getting at and I'd have to say I've been seeing it for a couple of years now and agree with your point.

Unfortunately, we have obviously NOT learned from our mistakes and are doomed to repeat them. History is repeating itself. It's clear to some and not so clear to others.

Aren't we all, witting or unwitting, accomplices?

I guess so. Most times I feel more like an observer than an accomplice, though. Just watching in horror as my country is taken away from the people and turned into some sort of dictatorship.

Great article, by the way!

Postscript

Not long after writing this, the author was banned from a school system where he was teaching after speaking to a high school civics class about the evidence of prior knowledge of the 9-11 terrorist attacks within the U$ government. Several students turned him into the administrators and filed written reports which led to his banishment.

"A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves." --Edward R. Murrow

That's a great Franklin D. Roosevelt quote clearmind and one of those which stuck in my mind since I heard it.

Here's another which I recently put up in my Bio and I thought might be pertinent here;

~ Hermann Goering, April 18, 1946, while awaiting the Nuremberg trials.

Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people don't want war: neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.

I particularly like the comment about patriotism there which brings to mind another famous quote;

~ Samuel Johnson 1775
Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

Jak


[edit on 26/9/05 by JAK]

To me, this manifestation of the war machine is the most threatening of all, because it has learned from its past mistakes, become so integrated into our society, and has such powerful backing. If you listen to them, they will tell you even God is on their side, if such a claim can be made.

And they have created, yes created, the nearly perfect enemy, one that is everywhere, and nowhere, cannot be caught, but will never go away.

In the perpetuation of conflict, we will sow the seeds of our own destruction.

Sun Tzu said, "There is no instance of a country having benefited from prolonged war."

We must reconsider what this noble cause has been turned to, question the motivations of our government leaders, the no-bid contracts, the profiteering, the spread of violence. We must question whom is benefiting from the sacrifices of our best and brightest individuals.

That is our duty as citizens, at the very least.

"All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked..."



"Tell" them they are being attacked? "Tell"?


Here is a list of 2996 people who were "told" that they were being attacked:

www.september11victims.com...

I would post it all, but I dont want to waste the bandwith on your garbage analogy.

*Sigh

Really Skippy, if you cannot read any deeper than that I'm surprised you bothered waste any bandwith. :shk:

Originally posted by skippytjc
"All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked..."



"Tell" them they are being attacked? "Tell"?


Here is a list of 2996 people who were "told" that they were being attacked:

www.september11victims.com...

I would post it all, but I dont want to waste the bandwith on your garbage analogy.

Communication mediums werent so evolved as they are now, now ''tell''
is being switched with ''see".
The tactics are the same skippy, only diff we live in the communication age now.

As to your example of people who saw we were being attacked on 9-11, nobody of them saw the real enemies, the goverment 'told'' them that it was al queda

Originally posted by JAK
*Sigh

Really Skippy, if you cannot read any deeper than that I'm surprised you bothered waste any bandwith. :shk:

I read it all, and you would be suprised at how "deep" I can understand any and all implied meanings. But the poster chose to use this as an analogy between todays war on terror and Hermann Goering comments over 60 years ago.

So I choose to call him out on this particullar refference and state it as bunk, its simply a terrible refference to today situation. No comparison.

The certain member who cannot read deeper is the kind of person who relies on devices such you find in soap operas where the characters thoughts are audible, so you know exactly what is going on at any given moment. "Damn that Ridge. Damn him for getting my plastic surgeon's brother's wife's cousin's accountant's mother pregnant. I must wait for him to go to sleep before I execute my cunning plan which will be to..blah blah blah."

Similarly, these people hold their breath in anticipation while greased up WCW wrestler #1 holds a chair over greased up WCW wrestler #2, and shriek in surprise when it comes "crashing" down. Critically injuring greased up WCW wrestler #2 for life (or at least until the after match "interview")



As for comparisons, why does almost every republican including the President try to compare this war with world war II?

[edit on 26-9-2005 by cargo]

I am outraged as well by the terrible tragedies of 9/11, the Anthrax Attacks, 3/11, and 7/7. Again, what has this noble cause been turned to?

Didn't our very own military machine create the master-mind supposedly behind all this mayhem, and fund his operations against the Soviets, before we left him dangling in Afghanistan the first time around, 'making' him turn rogue?

Again what segment of society has benefited from all this hoopla? Does the average person feel any safer these days? I'd venture to say the average person is half worried out of their wits by now, and we've still got the weather damage to contend with and gas is going out of sight. Still, the rich get richer on their no-bid contracts, cronies cashing in.

But I said I wouldn't get political.

Do you think the countries we've invaded over this feel safer now? How about the world in general. Do you think the people of the world feel safer now?

I feel like the MIC took the movie "Fight Club" to heart, and is duking it out with its own alter ego, while all the tough guys stand around going, "Hey! let me try that!"

How's that for an analogy?

"Tell" them they are being attacked? "Tell"?

They were attacked by Iraq?

That's news to me.

The problem with your quotes is they are out of context.

All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.

Hermann Goering, Hitler's second-in-command, Nuremburg trials, 1946

No one needed to tell the US public they were being attacked, as Nazis needed to be convinced - it was obvious to all that the US was under attack. In this case there aren't any peace makers, because peace is wanted by only one side. This war on terrorism is not against a particular nation (though some nations may be involved in it) but against an ideology which wishes to enslave the rest of the world under radical Islam.

Anyone who thinks that it is at all viable to negotiate a peace between the Western world and Radical Islam is just fooling themselves, just as Europe was fooling themselves into thinking that peace with Nazi Germany could be achieved.

The US military industry certainly has a very large influence - I will not argue that point as it is obvious to any objective onlooker - but to somehow connect the military industrial machine that the US has and the war on terrorism is simply wishfull thinking.

What seems to be overlooked here is that the industry it's self was already schedualed to make a lot of money. They aren't making any more money by having this war, just making it in different ways. Instead of making it by doing cutting edge research on future weapon systems, they are making it by making munitions.

Interesting POV, and not without merit.

You, of course, discount the very real possibility that 9/11, the Anthrax Attacks, and maybe even subsequent terror attacks, could well be a 'red cell' scenario run amuk. You're familiar with Dick Marchenko and Team Six's 'rogue warrior' ops? You know, 'red cell'.

Where do you stand on the creating Bin Laden angle? You don't seem to buy into that, either.

I take it, then, you won't be going along with the "Fight Club" analogy.

Oh, well. this is a conspiracy forum, you know.

very brave of you Icarus Rising for pointing out the obvious despite knowing that you may be attacked for it

As usual, some here will call your arguments "garbage" because they cannot accept the fact that their govt also uses propaganda to hoodwink its citizens to support wars. Such acts are only reserved for "totalitarian regimes" or so they believe.

Anyway, nice post!