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Originally posted by Herman
From someone who does believe in Hell, would I go to Hell for my beliefs?
in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[m] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Originally posted by Jehosephat
People forget that God never sends people to hell, people choose to go to hell by not beliving in God and his plan for slavation.
Originally posted by TheEmpiricalIdeal
If you are going to believe in something such as the Bible it is rather hard to pick and choose what you believe. God's Word is true and never wavering, God cannot lie so he cannot and would not lie about Hell.
It is futile to not believe in something in the Bible because one percieves it to be false because if it is false that would mean God is a liar(which he isnt) and that would mean that John 3:16 is a false and that Heaven is a lie.........
Originally posted by Machine
God is 100% Love
God is 100% Wise
God is 100% Just
God is 100% Holy
True, as well. It is for this reason that we can trust what He spoke through the prophet Isaiah:
And God is all powerful and omniscient.
In all actuality, we will all die in the same 'state of sinfulness' that we were born in. That's why we've been pardoned of that inevitability--all of us.
If we die in our sins we must be punished by a just God. He cannot do otherwise.
Nothing is outside of God's power--what He does not do is according to His wisdom, not because of any limitations whatsoever.
God cannot violate his own nature it’s outside of his power.
Please don't take offense, my friend, but it is you who is wearing the lenses in this situation--you are viewing others through the eyes of human judgment--and what you see you deem not worthy of forgiveness and life...
You look at your friend through the lens of a sin filled mind. From your sinful perspective you deem his sins as slight and not worthy of eternal punishment.
There, you see, you've pinned down the essential truth of this issue rather neatly!
But stop and see with the eyes of God that same friend and you will begin to have a new perspective. Look at sin from the eyes of a pure and holy God, a God of perfect justice and absolute power and majesty.
For which cause we have been given a pardon--that curse was taken upon by another--and so there is no more curse, for anyone. What's done is done--no more selection, no more choosing sides.
The only just punishment befitting someone who sinned against a perfect and eternal God is an eternal one.
Surely God is far more forgiving and wise than even Herman, who clearly isn't swayed too much by the illusory perception of selective salvation! Is God the type who sees the glass as half empty? Or does He see it full to overflowing, for each of us?
Now, let’s take another look at this friend of yours. From your perspective he is kind and caring. From God’s perspective he is wretched and full of wickedness.
Well, gosh, its not hardly presented fairly in its true light to most 'non christians'--who could blame them for shunning such a hard-to-believe system of injustice at the hands of a God who loves only those who love Him? The very things you are saying in this thread do far more damage than good--you are not spreading the gospel, you are spreading discontent and hurt feelings. You are hurting the feelings of others in the name of God--who would not have you to do so.
He has also refused to accept the free gift of eternal pardon paid for by his own blood.
How can God be offended? He is pure spirit and spirit does not get offended.
How much greater is this insult to a perfect and holy God?
How can he throw down something which has not been fully shown to him, in the first place? How can he refuse something that has already been given to him, even before he heard of it?
God removed himself from eternity and perfect peace to become a man. He bore the weight of a sinful world and yet was without sin. He suffered the humiliation and agony of the cross to make a way for your friend to be pardoned of his sin and your friend’s response to this is to throw it down and refuse it.
Now I know that I didn't just read that--I know you wouldn't be so mean-spirited as that.
His condemnation is deserved.
Hello! It's been taken care of--both the intercessor and the friend. After all,
Your friend from Brazil needs a righteous and holy prayer warrior to intercede on his behalf. He doesn’t need a friend who denies a Hell that he will one day find himself in.
Herman's friend is truly a blessed person, because obviously Herman is more of a friend than you would have him be--he seems to be following in the correct footsteps, the way I see it.
Are you really his friend?
Your friend is dead and you may very well be the only one who will care enough for him to intercede on his behalf before he himself will be forced to pay for his crimes against a holy and just God.
Originally posted by queenannie38
Is that in the bible?
Herman, please continue to read your Bible and ask God to give you a right perspective concerning Hell. Satan wants you to deny the existence of Hell. By denying Hell you deny God’s holiness and justice. When you do this you open yourself up to a great many errors in thinking and understanding. Most importantly, you lose your zeal to reach the lost and become disinterested in the eternal welfare of others. Your friend from Brazil needs a righteous and holy prayer warrior to intercede on his behalf.
He doesn’t need a friend who denies a Hell that he will one day find himself in.
In all actuality, we will all die in the same 'state of sinfulness' that we were born in. That's why we've been pardoned of that inevitability--all of us.
Originally posted by Herman
But again, I'm still questioning whether or not I even believe in Hell.
Originally posted by spamandham
You simply will not find anything in the Bible that says "the unsaved will be eternally tortured". That's just a fun idea people like.
And in hell (also translated Hades and Sheol), he (the rich man) lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
That's closer to the true concept, although I don't think it is 'punishment.' Punishment is not a true biblical concept--it is man's. It is a morality based judgment that is inflicted according to one man's ideas of 'right' and 'wrong' applied to another. It is opinion, and as such, is an inherently injust concept.
Originally posted by Herman
I mean...maybe if there was a short period of time you were sent to Hell as a punishment.... But I don't think that's the case here .
Remember, though, that often our prayers are answered but we don't recognize it due to the fact that we often pray for a specific solution to a problem (asking for God to perform that which we think should be done but are unable to do ourselves) instead of truly trusting God and literally handing the problem over to Him for complete diagnosis and resolution. God doesn't see as we see--our solution may seem good in our eyes, but more than likely it is not for the good of all involved due to our inherent short-sighted human perspective.
And I do pray for my friend. I have other friends in similar situations, and I pray for them as well. I just really hope that God answers my prayers.
There is help for that. Go to
I most definitely will continue to read my bible, and I do hope that God will help me increase my understanding. I'll be the first to admit that I don't know as much as I should about the bible. I really do want to get down to reading the whole thing, but I just...don't. Part of the reason is that the only bible I have is written in that old-English stuff... I can't even understand most of it haha. I guess I need a newer one.
No, you are obeying Christ's commandments in a very literal sense. You are loving your neighbor as you love yourself. Hold on to that, and hold on to the idea that truth is available to you--and you've got your part pretty much licked. God will show you what's what. Just remember He leads you from within yourself, not from within other people.
It also seems like...I wouldn't really be able to live with myself, in Heaven, knowing that so many good people are suffering in Hell while I'm living it up in Heaven. People who may have lead better lives than I, but simply didn't believe in Jesus. Thanks again for your reply though, and any future replies, I know it probably seems to you like I'm trying to deny Hell, but I'm really not.
In all actuality, we will all die in the same 'state of sinfulness' that we were born in. That's why we've been pardoned of that inevitability--all of us.
We are all sinful, even believers. But it's the belief in Christ that forgives us of these sins, right? And without Christ, we can never be forgiven, which is why people who don't believe go to a place of Sin... a place without God. Or at least that's the logic behind it.
Originally posted by TheEmpiricalIdeal
Have you ever read the story of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16?
There is a rich man and a beggar named Lazarus, Lazarus just wants some crumbs from the rich mans table but the rich man doesnt give him any. They both die. Lazarus get taken by angels into Abrahams bosom and the rich man dies and gets buried.
Luke 16:23
Originally posted by TheEmpiricalIdeal
Contrary to popular belief influenced by any means (be it Dante or whatever) Hell is not a place of fire and brimstone but more than likely a dark, dark, place very, very, far away from the presence of God.
Originally posted by TheEmpiricalIdeal
The unquenchable fire, in my opinion, is one's thought process in Hell of constantly thinking about their sins committed and constantly thinking of all the times they could have made the confession unto salvation so they could be in the presence of the Almighty.
Originally posted by TheEmpiricalIdeal
This is the eternal suffering, pain, and anguish. Whoever is down there IS in anguish because of the fact that they live through each and every one of their sins and live the fact that they are cut off from the awesome, wonderful, presence of God.
Originally posted by TheEmpiricalIdeal
Knowing that he could not punish them in the physical world, he decieded to create his own reality and punish them in that reality.
Originally posted by TheEmpiricalIdeal
There is a Hell, and the people there are eternally tortured (not in the sick and twisted way people like) until the end of time when they get totally destroyed and exist no more.