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Yes it is--and in the case of the rich man/Lazarus speech--who is He speaking to?
Originally posted by TheEmpiricalIdeal
This is Jesus talking.
Originally posted by queenannie38
Jesus spoke to everyone, except His disciples, in parables.
Originally posted by queenannie38
What you are citing as 'proof' of eternal torment in a place called hell is a parable.
Originally posted by TheEmpiricalIdeal
How can there not be a Hell? Heaven is the oppostite of Hell. There has to be a Hell where the people who dont believe get sent.
Originally posted by TheEmpiricalIdeal
Hell has to be present to counteract Heaven.
Originally posted by TheEmpiricalIdeal
Since you say there is no Hell does that mean there is not a devil? Certainly not.
Originally posted by TheEmpiricalIdeal
Some things are beyond our mental capacity.
Originally posted by Danie
there you go, hell exsists as sure as God exsists
Parables are of the highest value--but only if you understand the utility of parables. Literally interpreted they lead only to a tangle of confusion. Proven in this very thread.
Originally posted by TheEmpiricalIdeal
Ok, maybe that was not such a great example, parable's do have some face value to them though.
Not likely at all. Where, pray tell, is 'Abraham's Bosom?'
And in this particular case the text did not specify the speaking of a parable Jesus adressed the Pharisees and then told the story of Lazarus. This could very well have been true and it most likely is because only Jesus could know what had happenned in Abrahams Bosom.
So is Jimi in hell, too?
How can there not be a Hell? Heaven is the oppostite of Hell. There has to be a Hell where the people who dont believe get sent. Hell has to be present to counteract Heaven.
Nonsense. We will never understand it if we try to reason it out from our own human perspectives--but that is why we are to seek the kingdom of God and His righteousness--in doing so, we will receive understanding, also--through His Spirit.
We will never understand it but he doesnt expect, or ask us to.
Originally posted by spamandham
Originally posted by TheEmpiricalIdeal
Some things are beyond our mental capacity.
Why are you willing to accept that? It's easy enough to understand once you give up thinking that you have knowledge on the subject.
You have voted spamandham for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.
:originally posted by spamandham
Why is god bound to your concepts?
:originally posted by spamandham
How could the devil have made Jesus a credible offer of the entire earth if the earth was not his to offer?
Originally posted by Krissy
we have to agknowlege the teaching of Gods written word the bible and say that by default if you dont follow christ with your whole heart hell is where you'll end up
I would NEVER knock Jimi. He is one of my top five. He was a musical genius and from what I've seen of any interview or footage of he, himself, talking, I believe he was truly a gentle soul full of nothing but love. I know a lot more than just that his name is James Earl Hendrix, he played a fender stratocaster strung backwards and played upside down because he was left-handed, and he was born and buried in Seattle, Washington. I know he didn't care much about money till the end--then he found out one of his managers was embezzling from him; not long after that he was dead. He didn't have to die--he did not drown on his own vomit, contrary to popular rumor, he died in a hospital emergency room and the circumstances are suspicious.
Originally posted by TheEmpiricalIdeal
Are you trying to knock Jimi??
I know exactly what Peter is saying.
In I Peter 3 you quote "Always be prepared to give a defense to everyone who asks you to explain the hope you have."
That is pertaining to the hope we have in Christ Jesus, the promise we have that makes us joint heirs with Jesus Christ--the promise that makes us Sons (and Daughters) of God. That hope is what sets us apart from the world, it is the gospel that saves souls.
Not at all. You can't make hell fit in with the truth.
Jesus is what Peter is saying to give defense to not on whether there is a Hell or not.
Did you not read the verses I cited? The Holy Spirit reveals all these things to us.
As for things being beyond our mental capacity, why would Almighty God be able to totally fit into our tiny brains that dont even have the greatest mental capacity ever (that would be Einstein)?
Obviously he didn't ask God for help on that answer!
Milton battled with question pertaining to God being omniscient and if he knows the sins we are going to commit when we commit them. He didnt find an answer.
'Morality' is something not of God, but of humans. God has no use for our confused idea of what is 'right' and 'wrong.' 'Right' is to listen to God, 'wrong' is to listen to anything else and feel it's right.
Ayn Rand brought up points on humans being a volitional being with a 'tendency' to be immoral. The two cannot cooperate. This is the same thing I have found in the Bible with man having free will but at the same time having a sin nature. To have a sin nature is to have a tendency to sin, that equates to being a robot with no choice only a 'tendency'.
What we currently have is not 'free will' -- it is the 'opportunity to choose.'
Through human reasoning you deduce that you can have a sin nature or you can have a free will, again, Either-Or, not both. Obviously, because the Bible is true, there can be both. How, you ask? I have no idea, I might find the answer one day but for now I have to come to terms with the fact that I dont know.....yet
I know what it is...I just was trying to pin you down so you would understand that it is a figurative term--a big clue that something is a parable is that it uses figurative terms.
You asked where is Abrahams Bosom....first you have to know what it is before you should answer where it is. Abrahams Bosom is the place before the ressurrection of Christ where the people who died went till they could be judged when Jesus died and rose again. This is Biblical I dont have access to it now but If needed I can get the reference. Its awful hard to know where it is, just like its awful hard to know where heaven is....
No, God cast the devil down to earth, not hell.
God cast Lucifer and all of the angels (1/3 of heaven I believe) into Hell because they exalted their name above God's. This is somewhere in Isaiah.
The devil follows God's orders directly. The devil doesn't do 'as he pleases.' Only God does.
The devil isnt bound to Hell he can roam where he pleases. In Job the devil himself comments abuot where he has been saying, "roaming about to and fro devouring whom ever I may devour" (paraphrase Job 1).
He may be the prince of this world, but the world belongs to Christ. The 'lease' is soon done, and then it all goes back to it's rightful owner--Christ whose inheritance it is.
Thats easy, the Devil owns the world thats why. The Bible says he is the prince of the Earth.
Not really--just hard to find someone to discuss it with.
It is very difficult to discuss metaphysics.....period.
Because they don't ask God, they ask themselves, and they ask each other.
Not even the greatest philosophers in the world could come up with a concrete answer, every answer varied.
This is what this discussion equates down to, metaphysics.
What spamandham has a problem with is people that don't read the bible, but act as if they are an authority on it---and the contradictions and opinions they set forth as 'biblical truths' are nonsense and contradict what the bible really says.
We have it layed out before us via the Bible, that is concrete, if you dont believe it that is your personal opinion.
Not if you stick purely with scripture. You're misquoting and misunderstanding, and that's why your 'argument' falls through. It's not accurate or based solely on the bible.
Every argument you produce can be countered by someone else just like every argument I produce can be counterred as well.
No set of 'opinions' is correct--opinions are not 'facts.'
Only one set of opinions is right, I guess we will have to see when we die, thats when we'll know for sure.
Originally posted by Krissy
if you look in the bible HEll is mentioned all through it
Originally posted by TheEmpiricalIdeal
2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast [them] down to hell, and delivered [them] into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
God cast Lucifer and all of the angels (1/3 of heaven I believe) into Hell because they exalted their name above God's. This is somewhere in Isaiah.
The devil isnt bound to Hell he can roam where he pleases.
Originally posted by TheEmpiricalIdeal
:originally posted by spamandham
Why is god bound to your concepts?
Why is God bound to yours??
Originally posted by TheEmpiricalIdeal
Thats easy, the Devil owns the world thats why. The Bible says he is the prince of the Earth.
Originally posted by TheEmpiricalIdeal
Every argument you produce can be countered by someone else just like every argument I produce can be counterred as well.
Originally posted by TheEmpiricalIdeal
Only one set of opinions is right, I guess we will have to see when we die, thats when we'll know for sure.
Originally posted by spamandham
Is Abaddon/Apollyon (destruction) translated as hell in some translations?
No doubt! Maybe even a thread about his death--I definitely think it was not 'kosher.' Probably for the most part because in 1970 a black rock-n-roller guitarist was not highly esteemed by those not directly affected by his genius. Too bad. He was totally one of a kind--no one has ever come to close to his style, and never will, I am certain.
Originally posted by TheEmpiricalIdeal
That is sooo cool you appreciate the 'master of the stratcaster'!! lol You like totally rock. We should discuss Hendrix sometime.....
I think regardless of what you believe, whether there is a Hell or not, whether everyone goes to heaven or just the ones that have Jesus as their saviour, you should make it your highest goal to live a happy life here.
I truly feel that is God's priority, too--our happiness. Not like most believe, because of so many of the misconceptions promoted by christianity.
The true happiness of a man is his highest moral purpose.
That's true! The good thing about it is, that if there is no hell (and I know there is not) then even those that believe there is will have good news at the end, just like everyone else!
I look forward to the debate but am not trying to persuade anyone, just compare ideas and standards. Each one of us is upheld to his convictions and will probably not change them so why try anymore.
Originally posted by D
Remember that Hell is eternal separation from God. Imagine a place where there is no God, a world made purely of your own doing. I reckon that as a Christian, that is hell enough.
Originally posted by sinta_ilfirin
I don't think that not believing in hell will cause you to not go to hell, as the bible clearly states numerous times that all you must do is believe that Jesus was the son of God and that he came to earth and took on a human form. That he died on a cross and rose from the dead. You simply must believe that, and confess it with you mouth that Jesus is Lord and you will be saved.
Originally posted by Ras Dedan
I've mentioned this somewhere in another thread and didn't get an answer,if you need to follow christ or go to hell,what happens to those who have never heard of him or who lived before him? Do you get a free pass to heaven or is it straight to hell?