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Unites States Superiority...

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posted on Sep, 5 2003 @ 02:10 PM
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To not take away from Jakomo's thread,
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I've decided to create this thread to determine whether or not the United States is the most powerful nation in the world...
So then is anyone better than the US?

I'll go ahead in throw in my 50 cents from my blog about a month ago:

Why the US would own China in a war on any level of the playing field anyday
The U.S. would own the Chinese if it ever came to full-scale conventional war. While there may be a lot more Chinese than Americans, apparently none of you who site this fact have any understanding of military logistics. For every soldier in the field, there are ten people at home in the fields providing the food for that soldier, in the factories building the weapons that he fights with or fabricating the clothes that he wears, in the MASH units ready to sew him up if he gets hurt, etc. As you can imagine, this tends to cause the added "attritional bonus" offered by China's superior numbers to dwindle and evaporate quite quickly. Furthermore, the U.S., by virtue of it's superior farming and manufacturing ability, can actually mobilize a much greater proportion of it's population than can the Chinese without impacting productivity in the slightest, so you might actually find numerical superiority to be on the side of the Americans if it ever came to mass conscription...

Then you have to factor America's immense technology advantage. The Chinese field a small and antiquated air force composed primarily of older model MiG's, which historically have been smashed to pieces when going up against American F-15, F/A-18, F-14, and F-16 aircraft, even when they have the numerical advantage (which in this case is unlikely).

On the ground, the T-72 is completely inadequate to the task of stopping the M1A2 Abrams. With the chobham armoring on the Abrams, the only way to penetrate is to get directly behind and fire a round right into the grille on their six. In all engagements to date, no tank force has ever been able to disable an Abrams, and the only time they've been disabled at all was when facing ambushes from infantry wielding RPG's. Meanwhile the 120mm on the M1 can kill a T-72 in a single shot. In one instance during the first Gulf War, a single shot had so much penetration power it actually went clean through one Iraqi T-72 and then disabled another directly behind it.

As for infantry, the Kalashnikov is okay, but not especially accurate. It's often said that the only people who buy a Kalashnikov are those who can't afford an M-16, standard issue for Americans.

Another reason is simple training and tactical superiority. Americans are far better trained on average than the regulars of any other nation, and their tactics are better to boot. Should the Chinese ever wind up in combat with us, they would quickly find their C3 complexes gutted with precision airstrikes, which is especially devastating when you consider how centrally-controlled Chinese military doctrine is. Without command, the Chinese cannot function. In the meantime, every time a group manages to mass, they would quickly find themselves to unrelenting saturation bombardments. A few daisy-cutters would either force them to scatter into units too small to form any cohesive defense, or be shredded.

To sum it all up for those who don't wanna read, We'd own China' @$$ in war!!!



*ooh, ohh it's the mad hotness, you just can't handle this*
Can anybody argue with this?
- Tassadar




posted on Sep, 5 2003 @ 02:13 PM
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So then is anyone better than the US?


The answer is simply NO. We have our share of problems, but this nation will be and will continue to be the must powerful nation in the world.



posted on Sep, 5 2003 @ 02:18 PM
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be the must powerful nation in the world.


Your Freudian slip is showing, hehe....

Yes, we are certainly the most powerful militarily speaking in the world...no doubt about that one.... With our carriers, we can place a force more powerful than most nations' entire arsenal, anywhere in the world...



posted on Sep, 5 2003 @ 02:21 PM
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War isnt specs, it isnt science.

Anything can happen.

Most of your hardware is goo enough and some are even as good/better to anything that others have.

But it isnt the machines that win war it is soldiers manning them, and current US training standarts are quite low when compared to Elite Russian or Western europes standarts.

But the Chinise arent really at this moment a any treaht, in 10-15 years mayby.. but at this moment their masses rely on form of human wave tactics.. so if enough firepower can be used against them they will be easily over come.. (MASSIVE FIREPOWER.)

And they use lots of infantry, and takes from 15mins to couple of weeks to train somebody to use and maintain KALASNIKOV type assault rifle so..


THERE IS 1,3/1,5 BILLION OF THEM.. occupying China isnt a option.


[Edited on 5-9-2003 by FULCRUM]



posted on Sep, 5 2003 @ 02:34 PM
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Dammit Fulcrum, now I have to go think up soemthing to say!
*walks to refrigerator, gets out Chinese food, heats it up, then walks back*

Russia's "Elite" may be great, but so are the US's...
Besides, Russia isn't a threat, they'vbe got nukes, nukes, nukes, and no money!
They can't even support their own military!!

If you're going to use Iraq as an example, don't.
Most of those soldies were 4 year enlisted men with about 1 year of training under their belt!
We disassembled Iraq in two months!!

Have you ever seen one of the Delta Team's trinng videos?
Those guys capture full battalions of troops! 12 capture 400+!!
Our Seal Teams will dominate all!!
Marine Force Recon troops were in chargeof liberating Veitnamese POWS...(and they did a good job)

hold on *microwave's finished*

As for Western Europe, could you name some countries please...?

Germany - After the whole Hitler thing theyjust kind of sit arond and do nothing
Spain - While I do like mariachi, I haven't even heard of ther military
France - Hot chicks, in league with Hussein and Putin
England (no I didn't orget you guys) - Ok, SAS troops are alright, but in ever publicl disclosed wargame, our special forces beat them...

Anything I missed?
- Tassadar



posted on Sep, 5 2003 @ 02:38 PM
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But it isnt the machines that win war it is soldiers manning them, and current US training standarts are quite low when compared to Elite Russian or Western europes standarts.


Actually, US forces are some of the best trained in the world. Couple that with the fact that they are all there VOLUNTARILY and are professional soldiers, not just conscripts, and I think you'll begin to see the difference....



posted on Sep, 5 2003 @ 02:47 PM
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I arent here to argue/to start a fight.

But:

The best yet "US" SF trooper:


"In a country that revels in its martial tradition, the exploits of reconnaissance men during World War II (WWII) have become a part of Finnish folklore. Former President Dr. Mauno Koivisto (SDP) (1982-1994) was a member of a long-range reconnaissance company commanded by the legendary Lauri Torni , who later joined the U.S. Army as Larry Thorne. CPT Thorne was into a second tour of Vietnam with MACV-SOG when he was killed in a helicopter crash on 18 October 1966. Considered a national hero in Finland, CPT Thorne was awarded the Mannerheim Cross, Finland's highest military award (equivalent to the U.S. Medal of Honor) in July 1944."

Have you seen the "Green barets" movie by John Wayne? Hes acting this man in it.


From: www.specialoperations.com...

Also check:

www.taskforceomegainc.org...

Larry A. Thorne is the only American POW/MIA to fight communism under three flags - those of Finland, Germany and America.

[Edited on 5-9-2003 by FULCRUM]



posted on Sep, 5 2003 @ 02:48 PM
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Originally posted by Gazrok

But it isnt the machines that win war it is soldiers manning them, and current US training standarts are quite low when compared to Elite Russian or Western europes standarts.


Actually, US forces are some of the best trained in the world. Couple that with the fact that they are all there VOLUNTARILY and are professional soldiers, not just conscripts, and I think you'll begin to see the difference....


Most of your "pros" at Iraq are 19 year old children..



posted on Sep, 5 2003 @ 02:55 PM
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Well, well...
so much violence.

They were voluntary children that had been playing Ghost Recon, CounterStrike, and Socom all their lives and wanted the real thing.
They had gone to battle training school.
They were trained in the use of a wide variety of weapons.
They were traind in the use of the radio!!*schock and awe*
They were trained in the use of Night Vison goggles!!!*ooohhh ahhhhh*
They were trained....
They were trained....
They were trained....

And these kids had probably under 8 months of "BASIC" training.
Our special forces are either killing (errr, I mean fighting) someone, or training even more...
- Tassadar



posted on Sep, 5 2003 @ 02:57 PM
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Is America the most powerful nation in the world? I would probably say so...if power is the ability to kill people, if power is the ability to rain death and destruction. If that is what is termed 'power', then yes.



posted on Sep, 5 2003 @ 02:58 PM
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Originally posted by Tassadar
Well, well...
so much violence.

They were voluntary children that had been playing Ghost Recon, CounterStrike, and Socom all their lives and wanted the real thing.
They had gone to battle training school.
They were trained in the use of a wide variety of weapons.
They were traind in the use of the radio!!*schock and awe*
They were trained in the use of Night Vison goggles!!!*ooohhh ahhhhh*
They were trained....
They were trained....
They were trained....

And these kids had probably under 8 months of "BASIC" training.
Our special forces are either killing (errr, I mean fighting) someone, or training even more...
- Tassadar


Belive me, COMPUTER GAMES HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH REAL MILITARY/WAR.


I know, i have played all those games, and i also have been "trained"


Hell, i have trained others to be soldiers.. as i am a squad leader.. ">>" (CORPORAL..)



posted on Sep, 5 2003 @ 02:59 PM
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Originally posted by alien
Is America the most powerful nation in the world? I would probably say so...if power is the ability to kill people, if power is the ability to rain death and destruction. If that is what is termed 'power', then yes.


Well said!


Power to kill and destroy isnt a "power" at all, it is weakness..



posted on Sep, 5 2003 @ 03:01 PM
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Fulcrum,
where, may I ask, are you from?



posted on Sep, 5 2003 @ 04:40 PM
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Ahhhh......
I see Crpl. Fulcrum hails us from an undisclosed location in an undisclosed country. (Iraq, it's ok, don't compromise your squad's integrity...)
Seeing as how you have no national affliation (or are in fear of your own (commies?)), and you have presented no contentious evidence to prove another coutnry stronger than America, I'll broaden the subject....

What is the best country in the world to live in and why?
Are any better than the US?

[Edited on 5-9-2003 by Tassadar]



posted on Sep, 5 2003 @ 04:49 PM
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It is not a matter of individual strenght (person/equipment) it is other factors that matter in war, tactics and luck mostly.. luck is a major factor here


Or have you heard.. no battle plan survives first contact..?

Enemy does things that he isnt supposed to do. And your own troops will # up.. this happens to everybody, every time.



posted on Sep, 5 2003 @ 04:58 PM
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When was the last time the United Saets lost a war?
Vietnam is it, and we didn't really loose, we just didn't win.

Sure we've lost battles,
but First blood isn't important as Last Blood

Being a seasoned war veteran, have you ever encountered enemy frces bette tacticaly trained then your own troops?
I'm not talking like a platoon of US regs on foreign Spec. ops, just in a standard fight (hehe, there is no such thing).
- Tassadar

[Edited on 5-9-2003 by Tassadar]



posted on Sep, 5 2003 @ 05:11 PM
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Originally posted by Tassadar
When was the last time the United Saets lost a war?
Vietnam is it, and we didn't really loose, we just didn't win.

Sure we've lost battles,
but First blood isn't important as Last Blood

Being a seasoned war veteran, have you ever encountered enemy frces bette tacticaly trained then your own troops?
I'm not talking like a platoon of US regs on foreign Spec. ops, just in a standard fight (hehe, there is no such thing).
- Tassadar




What ever, like i said.. if there is better troops than US has they really are in a non-hostile/allied/neutral countries.

Nothing the US really has to worry about.

But like i said luck is everything! Even "crappy rag-tag gang" of Somalis can cause serious problems or an a defeat, if your plan is #ed up and the troops in the field cant adjust to the situation. Basicly any, even "guerilla/terrorist force" can fight and even win war against any nation even if armed only with rifles, MG:s, light mortars, MANPADS and RPG:s.. an most importantly the SUPPORT OF THE NATIONS POPULANCE.

Tanks and planes arent everything.. they are something, but against enemy that knows what it is doing these have little effect. Like in Chechenya wars part 1 and 2.

Surely did Russia planes and armor cause much damge and casualities. But: it was in the end the Russian SF/SPECIAL-POLICE[OMON/SOBR]/INFANTRY UNITS.. that had to finish the job, as the were no targets left for the heavy high-tech weapons.. and drag the mother #ing terrorists out of the sewers of Grozny..


And the job is still going on.. as some caucasian moslems nations harbor these terrorists.. that then do raids into Chechen territories.


[Edited on 5-9-2003 by FULCRUM]



posted on Sep, 5 2003 @ 05:26 PM
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Hell, i have trained others to be soldiers.. as i am a squad leader..


FULCRUM, you said in an earlier post you didn't have a car or a valid id. In every militaristic unit in the world, you MUST have a drivers liscense.



posted on Sep, 5 2003 @ 05:33 PM
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Originally posted by goregrinder



Hell, i have trained others to be soldiers.. as i am a squad leader..


FULCRUM, you said in an earlier post you didn't have a car or a valid id. In every militaristic unit in the world, you MUST have a drivers liscense.


No, you dont..
Wanna bet? In our defence force we have this "arm" called "transportation".. they provide the jeep/truck drivers.. i aint lying..


These "men" [dude that are too unfit for anything else.. ] Provide transportation during peace time.. during war situation.. there are no "safety rules" so anybody that know how to drive can drive.. licence or no licence.

And btw.. i have drived.. i just dont have the permit.. i dont want to get gaught by POLICE for driving with out licence.. it is as bad "crime" as is drunk driving.. so..


*edit*

And i am not in service anymore.. i was in 1999. Now i am a reservist. with a "war time deployment." Not all people have that.. i was good enough.. so i did get that..

[Edited on 5-9-2003 by FULCRUM]



posted on Sep, 5 2003 @ 05:35 PM
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No, you HAVE to have a driver's liscence. No excuses. You must be able to drive under any circumstances.





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