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What if You're Wrong About the Iraq War? A Hypothetical Question

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posted on Aug, 30 2005 @ 12:44 PM
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A week or so ago, another member asked what I thought was a very intriguing, challenging and provocative question of the Anti-Iraq War folks (of which I am one). The question was, "What if you are wrong?" And after some thought, I answered it along with a smattering of others. Original Thread

It was a strictly hypothetical question and unfortunately, some members couldn't seem to wrap their brains around that idea and argued with the original poster about the unlikelihood of his assertion. Eventually, the thread was scrapped because members weren't answering the question; rather they were debating the possibility of the question.

In other words, a hypothetical question of "What would you do if you won the lottery?" drew responses such as, "I wouldn't win the lottery because I have such bad luck." OR "How can you ask what I would do, what would YOU do?" OR "The lottery here never gets very high, so I don't play."

I would like to ask that question again, only have it open to both the Pro-Iraq War set and the Anti-Iraq war set and see just how open minded we can be in imagining if we're wrong in our assumptions about this whole thing. No ulterior motive, no wish to debate or argue, just an exercise in mind-expansion. It's a Good Thing. I'm not asking anyone to give up his or her beliefs or admit to anything. This is hypothetical, so the answers are as well.

Just do your best to imagine if all the assumptions you've made and all the beliefs you have about the war; it's inception, the reasoning, the politics - turn out to be proven wrong, how would you feel? What would you do?

For the purpose of this exercise, all the details don't have to be filled in (it's hypothetical, remember), just imagine one day you awaken and hear on all the credible news sources irrefutable proof that:

For the anti-war folks: WMDs were found in Iraq, Bin Laden has been captured, Iraq's new government is thriving and the Iraqi people are happy and thankful for the freedom that the coalition served them, and the terrorism in Iraq has dwindled to nothing.

For the pro-war folks: Bush confesses that 9/11 was a cooperative effort of the PNAC team to begin a movement to invade the Middle Eastern countries to make money from the oil there and the whole administration resigns. All the troops return home and Iraq settles into its new government, whatever that may be.

Now, before you tell me, I KNOW these aren't going to happen. I KNOW they're illogical. That's why it's called hypothetical. It's an imaginary scenario, the purpose of which is to stretch one's mind, get a glimpse of the other side. If you want to do this, then I'd love to hear your responses.

If you don't want to play, then take your ball and go home.
If you don't understand the purpose of this question or how answering it could possibly create anything of worth, then take your ball and go home.
If you want to argue about the premise of the question, then take your ball and go home.


The question is: How would you feel and what would occur in your mind if you found out tomorrow that all your beliefs about the war in Iraq were totally wrong?




posted on Aug, 30 2005 @ 01:08 PM
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I'm vehemently anti war in Iraq.

If i'm wrong, first I would apoligize to my pro-war friends.
Next I would start a blog here admitting my faulty thinking, and respond to any thread admitting I bought the anti-war line.

I would feel very stupid. I have been wrong before concerning these matters but not often, in fact very seldom do I feel the need to apoligise for my stance on anything. I will though readily, if I'm wrong.

Is this what you wanted; a peremptory mia culpa?

[edit on 30-8-2005 by whaaa]



posted on Aug, 30 2005 @ 01:11 PM
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Ok, I will bite. I like this thread already.
As someone who is completely against this war in Iraq, I have always hoped I would be wrong so that there would be a point to all of this. I had hoped that they would have found large stock piles of WMD. I had hoped that they would have found all or some of the so called evidence that Saddam was preparing to attack us. I had hoped that they would solidify their claims linking Iraq to 911. If these things had happened, I would call the friends that I had lost due to our differences. I would forgive my one buddy in the army who had spit in my face when I was trying to tell him why the war was wrong. I would try to see where I missed the mark. All I can see is a horrible war plan, chaos where order (even if you dont agree with it) once existed, US soldiers getting killed and several US companies profiting from all of it.

If I was wrong, I would apologize to everyone that i offended, and do whatever I could do to spread the truth. Unfortunately, I have yet to see any evidence that supports our reasons for going.



posted on Aug, 30 2005 @ 01:20 PM
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I have always been against the War in Iraq.

If things were to prove me wrong, then i still would be against it. I don't want my son going back there, even if it is proven that it is right.

The pain you go through by "the not knowing" is terrible.

So, it doesn't matter weather this is proven right or wrong. My son , and many others sons/Daughters will still be there.

Hope this comment helps BH

[edit on 30-8-2005 by Bikereddie]



posted on Aug, 30 2005 @ 01:27 PM
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Biker you just hit the nail on the head. 99% of us are not for the war in Iraq, but some of us get labelled that way because we still remain patriotic and support our troops, and *GASP* proud of our countries.

I dont know that I can answer this questions because I was never for the war in Iraq. But my country is there and I have to deal with it. If they are there, then I want my country to prevail and finish what it started. Even if your opinion is that it shouldnt have started in the first place.


I will never be for war, but I will always support my troops and be a pratiotic American. If you hate me for that, then so what.

[edit on 30-8-2005 by skippytjc]



posted on Aug, 30 2005 @ 01:36 PM
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Originally posted by skippytjc
Biker you just hit the nail on the head. 99% of us are not for the war in Iraq.


Thanks for that mate. I just hope it helps in what BH is looking for in the replies to his thread.



posted on Aug, 30 2005 @ 01:36 PM
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Wow, I really like this question. So much so, that I'm going to make this my first post here, although I have been browsing the boards for some time now. It amazes me that people would be so closed minded that they wouldn't, actually make that couldn't, even entertain the idea they could be wrong as a thought experiment. That just proves that blind sheeple aren't worth listening to.

Personally, I believe we were all lied to about the reasons we went to war with Iraq. If we weren't lied to, it would probably be the first war in history that was fought without exaggerated propaganda, but that is beside the point...

If I were truely proven wrong, it would probably shake the foundations of most of my belief systems. I certainly wouldn't start to whine and continue to be stubborn in the face of the truth. I would have to admit that I was swayed by media disinformation instead of government disinformation, and have to think long and hard about the way I view society in general, as well as individual behavioral psychology.

Then I'd have to go back and research all of the old news with this new perspective, and rethink my position...

Bottom line though, if Iraq really was linked to 9/11 and had WMD's with our names on them, I wouldn't just be supporting the troops with words, I'd be over there kicking some serious butt along with them!

I'd have to totally eat my words and admit that it would have been foolish to sit on our duffs just waiting to be attacked. A preemptive strike would then make complete sense to me. It's just a shame that it's a policy that can be so easily twisted and misused. But, if you have the truth on your side, it would be criminal not to take immediate action.

I'd still probably be really disappointed with this administration for much of the public relations bungling that has gone on though. Of course it's good to be able to make tough decisions in a pinch, and not appear cowardly, but a good leader knows how to rally public support on all fronts. Perhaps if Gore were elected we would be in the opposite mess, with the UN walking all over us until we're all glowing, but being subborn and unrelenting with your rhetoric can create it's own pile of problems, of few of which we would have seen regardless if the war was "right" or "wrong."

Also, despite my misgivings about the reasons behind the war, I have always supported the troops. My support would simply evolve into more action on my part if we were truely in imminent danger. Anyone who is willing to give their life to keep the rest of us safe should be honored, never scorned. I also believe that if you are the one sitting behind a desk about to make a life or death decision that affects them, you better darn well honor them too by ensuring their sacrafices aren't squandered or disgraced for personal gain or manipulative political games.



posted on Aug, 30 2005 @ 01:45 PM
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For one I never bit on that dog and pony show about WMD's and terror links, so we can just save that for the sheeple crowd to chew on. Was readily transparent to me from the get go, considering I spent time in Gulf War I. So the blew smoke all over the masses heads, but who here was really fooled by that charade?

If the Iraq war wasn't about securing oil resources, I sure as hell would want to know why they spent $190+ billion dollars and lost 2000+ US soldiers for a desert wasteland.

costofwar.com...

I would then leave the country, cause with such high level incompetence in the administration the nation is bound to collapse soon.

Just for the record, I don't support any war that is based on empire expansion to secure resources. That's called theft in my book, not liberation. It would of been a far greater gesture to dump all that money into new energy alternatives, and one that would help the future generations.

So if Saddam had nukes, could you blame and kill his people if he did? I can't, especially with powerful nations looking at me like a lambchop ready for the bbq.

So here we are with higher oil prices and one step closer to global war...got nukes?


[edit on 30-8-2005 by Regenmacher]



posted on Aug, 30 2005 @ 01:49 PM
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As with the other respondents, I would have to start by publicly owning up to being wrong in my opinions.

Then I would take a good long hard look at where I got my information. Given the polarity between what has come to be called the MSM and internet-provided news, I would have to either do a better job mixing my sources, or do a better job comprehending what my sources were saying.

If WMDs were found, Bin Laden captured, etc, which would indicate that the views of the Bush Administration were correct, I would then have to start promoting the next step - the 'taking down' of Iran, Syria, N. Korea and probably others. If the claims of the Bush Administration were proven correct in Iraq, that would lend serious credence to their claims elsewhere. We are in extreme danger, and should take active steps.

If the Bush Adminstration admitted to lying about the Iraq situation, I would promote their immediate imprisonment pending trial, as they are legitimate to consider as flight risks. I would require that a government that truly represented the US and the ideals of the US were installed here, and that that government immediately move to make reparations to Iraq for the damage done there by the rogue Bush government. This would necessitate immediate increases in taxes in the US to pay for these reparations. Further, I would insist on a major overhaul of how government in the US operates. No more 'secret' government. If something is so shameful as to require being hidden, it should probably not be going on.


The detailed consequences of either situation are extensive and beyond the scope of this reply, but very interesting...


edit for spelling

[edit on 30-8-2005 by Open_Minded Skeptic]



posted on Aug, 30 2005 @ 01:54 PM
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Thanks for the answers so far. Again, that's all I'm looking for, no mea culpa, no bait to bite, no hating anyone, just a question to provoke thought, contemplation and open minds.

I am vehemently against this war. Here's my answer from the original thread:

I would feel sardonic. My reaction would be that BushCo completely lucked out. I would still believe we were lied to, that the invasion into Iraq initiated the terrorism there. I would question the validity of the 'found' WMDs (did the US plant them?) and I would question whether they had Bin Laden in custody all along and chose to 'capture' him when it was convenient.

I feel like know too much to be happy about the outcome of this disaster. The ends wouldn't justify the means in other words.

I would however be happy for the people of Iraq as long as they were happy. I would feel that somehow, some good came out of this mess, however accidently.

I would stll mourn for the loss of life all around and feel that it was not worth it.

Had this fantasy happened in 2003, without all the discoveries since then (Downing Street Memo, 9/11 Commission report, PNAC, 9/11 conspiracy, etc.) I would have felt justified because I supported the war at that time. But since then, I have educated myself and have come to see that it was all a huge deception.

So even if everything did turn out peachy, in my opinion, it would be quite analogous to a murderer breaking into a house and finding a burglar there. The murderer kills the burglar as the authorities arrive only to be handsomely rewarded for his heroism. Akin to stumbling into accidental success.

Now, if I found out that the Downing Street Memo, 9/11 Commission report, PNAC, 9/11 conspiracy, the lies of the administration, etc. were all faked, then I would gladly admit that I was terribly wrong. I would be embarrassed and feel foolish for being so against this war and so sure I knew what I was talking about.

Addition: I would tell my one pro-Bush friend that he was right (Ouch!) and he would never let me forget it! I would come on here and admit that I was wrong and apologize for some of my more adamant Anti-Bush ramblings.
I still don't think I could bend my mind around to trust him again, though...

[edit on 30-8-2005 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Aug, 30 2005 @ 09:02 PM
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If I am wrong then we will lose.

If the Jihadists are wrong then they will lose.

I'm willing to wait and see the result. Talking
about it now won't make much difference.



posted on Aug, 30 2005 @ 09:46 PM
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For the pro-war folks: Bush confesses that 9/11 was a cooperative effort of the PNAC team to begin a movement to invade the Middle Eastern countries to make money from the oil there and the whole administration resigns. All the troops return home and Iraq settles into its new government, whatever that may be.


First off im not Pro-War, Im Pro-USA Im Pro-Defeating the enemy of my country If it where my call a US/Coalition soldier wouldnt have ever stepped foot in iraq, Id have just pushed a button,

Second, Im not Pro-Bush either, I just agree with him more so then I do a Democrat, there are many things I dont like about him or his administration, With that said, If it came to be that all that was stated in your scenario were true I wouldnt oppologise at all, I would however, support his imprisonment/Punishment, along with anyone else who participated in his plan.


TBH, noone regardless of what side you support, Noone will know for a few years whos right and who is wrong.

[edit on 30-8-2005 by C0le]



posted on Aug, 30 2005 @ 10:03 PM
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im am totally against the war.

if i am wrong, the U.S. finds stashed WMD's, documents proving saddam's involvement in 9/11 and funding/assisting AQ in any way i would go to sleep much less worried and have some new found trust in our government. i would give them the benefit of the doubt that they are doing the right job and all means used were acceptable for toppling saddam's regime and instilling a dictatorship-less government in iraq.

but what if im right? it's a far scarier scenerio which has yet to be proven/disproven. if anything, with blatent deal cuts with buddy corporations handed down by the administration, abuse scandals, improper conditions for troops, embezzelment of iraqi funds, missing oil $$$, i can go on. if all of these oversights are proven to be true in the near future as a grand conspiricy and is reported to the public we can move on as a country and attempt to fix our wrongs.

i ask, would you better be on the side were you have nothing to lose but some dignity if proven wrong or an incredible amount of restructuring due to corruption that has been left unchecked?

my obvious answer is to be a skeptic to a degree, don't allow anyone's words to be passed off as a 'fact' until it's been proven to be it.



posted on Aug, 30 2005 @ 10:35 PM
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The sad thing is that we are all probably wrong about the Iraq war. I doubt that any of us really knows why we are there. Is it for oil? For freedom? for WMD's? I think they hide the truth from us all so that we are too busy pointing fingers at one another so that we never see the man behind the curtain. We all get caught up in nationalism because we are directly affected in some way.

A few people that I work with who are very anti-war (They don't tell everyone, but yes, they exist) have come up to me recently and stated that if petrol/gas prices go up any more that they don't care who we have to kill or nuke, but get it done so that cheap oil comes back. I though this was a pretty silly thing to say, considering that they would abandon their morals and ethics to keep their cars full of cheap gas. Yet another way that the nationalism will affect us.

I would imagine that it is a fairly easy thing to do. We have become a nation of complainers who never solve any problems at all. We go into Iraq and try to help. We end up not helping anyone but large businesses who have hefty contracts for arming/re-supplying this group or that group. The economy does well and we all fall asleep again sipping beer watching the drool tube known as television.

I try to figure out all the plots and characters and can almost glimpse the truth like looking at a movie through fog. Then the solution slips away as quickly as it came.

I can armchair quarterback all day long, but at the end of the day, I go to bed and wake up early to go back to work. I help feed the leviathan which stomps its way across the world because my family needs to eat. I fill my fuel efficient automobile because it gets me to work so that I can feed my family. I pay a quarter of my annual income to Uncle Sam so that I can go to work and feed my family. I pay auto insurance so that in case I wreck my car, I can get another one and drive to work so that I can feed my family.

We all must do what we must so that our families can make it one day longer. As it was in the very beginning of time when we set out to hunt food so that our families could survive. We eventually had tribal wars over resources (land and game) so that the victors' families could survive.

When you think about it on the most basic of levels, we all do what we must to insure our family's/tribe's survival. Is it right? I guess it depends on which side you are on. No one wants to be on the side that loses.

So many people bring up the native americans here on this board. They say that the US wiped them out to take their land. Yes. it is true. So what? The native americans had fought with each other for the very same lands and game when resources were scarce. Who was right then? The US showed up and defeated them all. Did the French or Spanish do anything different when they arrived in the new world? Nope. Same thing.

At the end of it all, no one is right and no one is wrong, we all just do what we must do to survive one day longer.



posted on Aug, 30 2005 @ 10:51 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
For the anti-war folks: WMDs were found in Iraq, Bin Laden has been captured, Iraq's new government is thriving and the Iraqi people are happy and thankful for the freedom that the coalition served them, and the terrorism in Iraq has dwindled to nothing.

The question is: How would you feel and what would occur in your mind if you found out tomorrow that all your beliefs about the war in Iraq were totally wrong?


Interesting......

Being Anti war myself, I suppose if the "official line" turned out to be true, I would be the first to cut myself a giant slice of humble pie, to enjoy whileI sit back and reflect on some of my ideals.

Perhaps I would enjoy the fact, for once, that my country of birth while being responsible for some of the worlds greatest horrors, actually did turn out to also be responsible for some of the worlds greatest good.

I suppose I would be surprised, and I would owe plenty of people an apology.......

Then again......

What if the sun were blue and the sky was yellow?............



posted on Aug, 30 2005 @ 10:55 PM
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Originally posted by xman_in_blackx
At the end of it all, no one is right and no one is wrong, we all just do what we must do to survive one day longer.


Way Above, just for that one line. Great going.


I hate to admit it, but that's the reality of the world. It's who we are. Sure, we should always strive to be better, but it's not easy. We might as well just admit it and just go on with it.

That's why I don't understand the position of the anti-war folks. What are we supposed to do, lose the war?

Then again, I don't understand the people that try to justify EVERYTHING. I'd rather people just accept it as it is and live.

[edit on 30-8-2005 by sweatmonicaIdo]



posted on Aug, 30 2005 @ 10:59 PM
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Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
That's why I don't understand the position of the anti-war folks. What are we supposed to do, lose the war?



Without trying to derail the thread, but to answer a question posed....

We are supposed to NOT START it. In the event that fails, then we, the people, should hold our government accountable for starting a preventable war.......

Neither of which have been done.....as of yet.



posted on Aug, 30 2005 @ 11:39 PM
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I am anti-war, and to be quite honest I would feel a great deal of relief.

Relief that the world was as clear cut and simple and that people didn't have ulterior motives.

I have often wondered whether my beliefs on the matter were correct. I have placed myself in the other's shoes and I can understand the reasons for the war, though they are not the ones that Bush and others have suggested such as for terrorism or weapons of mass destruction.

Regardless of the truth, or truths, whatever it may be my world will not crumble whether I am proven right or wrong. I believe what I believe because I haven't seen anything that can really convince me that the other side is correct.



posted on Aug, 31 2005 @ 01:20 AM
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Ok, i was for the war in iraq, not because of WMD's because i knew they had no means of delivering them and the chances of them falling into the hands of terrorists were slim, nor did i care about iraq becoming a democracy,(I dont think middle eastern people believe such a thing can exist and maybe they are right). The truth was i thought we were there to secure oil resources and make the price of oil go down not up. Bush lied about how he would pay for this war, he claimed he would pay for it with iraqis oil or at least america would reap the benefits of it. I know it seemed cold hearted and yes it was because of greed. I freely admit that, something bush will never do. I also wanted some payback for 9/11, and afghanistan did not, in my opinion, make a good enough example of those who carry out terrorist attacks.

If bush said this:

"Bush confesses that 9/11 was a cooperative effort of the PNAC team to begin a movement to invade the Middle Eastern countries to make money from the oil there and the whole administration resigns. All the troops return home and Iraq settles into its new government, whatever that may be."


Then after he resigned, id hope he would be arrested and a tribunal convened to charge him with a number of crimes.



posted on Aug, 31 2005 @ 02:26 AM
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You have voted xman_in_blackx for the Way Above Top Secret award.


Very nice post.



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