NEWS: Martial Law Declared in New Orleans

Well, its no police state, thats for sure.

The cops are looting! Anarchy!
www.nola.com.../mtlogs/nola_Times-Picayune/archives/2005_08.html#075195

thanks for understanding. glad we resolved this.

I think some people are confusing martial law with the national guard helping out with relief efforts (sandbags, search and rescue etc).

Martial law is the administration of justice via military institutions against civilians.

This is completely unconnected with getting the military in to aid in the clear up activites, its purely a judicial matter. Now I can understand this being instituted because New Orleans courts are out of action currently. No criminals caught in New Orleans can be prosecuted at the moment so martial law has a place in that respect.

What I dont understand though, and what probably is lingering in the minds of others, is that if New Orleans is completely evacuated then why do you need martial law? Who is going to be staying in New Orleans to come under New Orlean's martial law?

The people evacuated out of New Orleans would come under the jurisdiction and courts of that area, martial law would not apply.

We all saw the National Guard helping out prior to Katrina hitting so those who say Martial Law is needed because of the devestation are missing the point. They can help out completely in every respect without instituting martial law.

reports of people attempting carjackings and looting has become more widespread and situation has become much more dangerous in the Superdome with people losing their tempers, etc..

I was without power for two days and I can tell you that close to the end of that time, myself, kids and husband were all getting very testy and aggravated with each other, I can only begin to imagine how the situation at the Superdome is, with thousand of strangers in a flooded building with overflowing toilets, no ventilation and probably no food and water either, I hope those few hundred national guardsmen can keep the peace in that building.

We all saw the National Guard helping out prior to Katrina hitting so those who say Martial Law is needed because of the devestation are missing the point. They can help out completely in every respect without instituting martial law.

What about for when the waters receed and the looters come out in force? That's the largest issue I see with the need for Martial Law IMO

[edit on 30-8-2005 by sardion2000]

Originally posted by sardion2000
What about for when the waters receed and the looters come out in force? That's the largest issue I see.

Then wouldnt it be preferential to use the courts in the rest of Louisiana before hauling them through a court martial? There are more courts in Louisiana than just the ones flooded in New Orleans.

[edit on 30/8/05 by subz]

Originally posted by subz

Originally posted by sardion2000
What about for when the waters receed and the looters come out in force? That's the largest issue I see.

Then wouldnt the courts in the rest of Louisiana be used to try the accused before hauling them through a court martial? There are more courts in Louisiana then just the ones flooded in New Orleans.

[edit on 30/8/05 by subz]

So you say leave it up to the locals? New Orleans stands alone against the looters? lol I'm not american but I'm a landowner and if that were the attitude of the provincial and federal gov't I would stay on my own property with a shotty regardless of the risk.

Originally posted by jammerman

Originally posted by Indy

And to force people to evacuate...

Also, the use of martial law likely has more to do with assistance and maintaining order than just protecting property from looters. Deployment of the national guard is not only a good idea here but a necessity.


Peace and prayers to those involved

yes, forced to evacuate all those thousands that are semi trapped in the SuperDome as a shelter.
early assessments say it will be weeks & perhaps 10s of weeks to get the needs for civil living & basic survival infrastructure up an running in N.O.

I suppose the Mayor or Governor proposed Martial Law in some areas,
but i guess the whole metro area will eventually be declared a disaster
area & under Martial Law...

so that some organizationl authority will be able to
direct & protect the FEMA and RED CROSS personnel,
who in turn will coordinate with disaster-relief and Corps of Engineers
and all those other clean-up & law&order necessities in this day-&-age !

sounds like they got a plan....
a plan in need of a Joe Arpio type of Sheriff to respond to all those
thievery opportunists who made it a point to stay while ignoring the
mandatory evacuation order and not at least going to the authorized
and sanctioned shelters like the many other upright citizens.

the plight of those sneaky opportunists is beyond my concern

umm what's the difference between a 'state of emergency' - which is normally what's called in these situations and 'martial law' (apart from the fact everyone loses all their civil rights)?

I'm sorry but why declare martial law in NO? The city is ruined! These people have nothing to drink or eat and I for one would not go to the superdome and be hearded around like a cattle in this situation either! I wouldn't bother with looting material items, but FOOD, WATER, YES! And they should be able to, which they are, the food in the NO stores are just going to go to waste and spoil if no one takes them, people shouldn't care about this.

Now, with that being said, I think the real problems lie in Gulf Port, and Biloxi. Those two cities have been leveled over but there are still a lot of people there trying to live. This I think is going to lead to major problems in these cities. I think in the next few days, we will se massive looting and rioting in Biloxi and GP too. I hope I'm wrong about this in a way though, this is such a terrible nightmare for so many people.

Originally posted by Nerdling
It's never too early.

Originally posted by RANT
Man, I hope the Daily Show isn't another repeat tonight.

This is FoxNews Solid GOLD.

Martial Law was declared briefly today by FoxNews given the largest natural disaster to ever hit America. Calmer heads eventually prevailed however, when the National Guard could not be reached for comment,[picture of reservist in the Iraqi desert wearing a life preserver] and FoxNews realized it wasn't actually allowed to declare Martial Law... at least ahead of schedule [2008 JEB WINS! graphic]

I was gonna say something, but realized you're not worth it. Stuff like this is the reason I only come here about once a month. I hope neither of you lost loved ones from this, because a hell of alot people are going to.

Originally posted by SpilledBeans
I'm sorry but why declare martial law in NO?...

Try adding the word "not" between "why declare" and then continue on with your thoughts...

Semantics.
Gazrok hit it on the nail, anyhow.
Martial law clarified

The state Attorney General's office on Tuesday sought to clarify reports in some media that "martial law' has been declared in parts of storm-ravaged southeast Louisiana, saying no such term exists in Louisiana law.

But even though no martial law exists, Gov. Kathleen Blanco's declaration of a state of emergency gives authorities widespread latitude to suspend civil liberties as they try to restore order and bring victims to safety. Under the Louisiana Homeland Security and Emergency Assistance and Disaster Act of 1993, the governor and, in some cases, chief parish officials, have the right to commandeer or utilize any private property if necessary to cope with the emergency.

Authorities may also suspend any statute related to the conduct of official business, or any rule issued by a state agency, if complying would "prevent, hinder or delay necessary action'' to mitigate the emergency.

It also gives authority the right to compel evacuations, suspend alcohol and weapons sales and make provisions for the availability and use of temporary emergency housing.

The law gives mayors similar authority, except they do not have the right to commandeer private property or make provisions for emergency housing, according to a background brief prepared by the state Attorney General's office.

seekerof

Martial law, definition 2 from dictionary.com

2 : the law administered by military forces that is invoked by a government in an emergency when civilian law enforcement agencies are unable to maintain public order and safety

Troy

Just throwing this thought out there...

Anyone considering the differences between looting out of necessity and looting out of greed? Are both equally punishable? On the one hand you have people looting diapers and other NEEDS to continue living - While on the other hand you have people stealing the WANTS....For no purpose other than to make money and to say they did it...

I see a difference....I'm not condoning the act of looting, and I think once we finally restore order, any form of looting should be punished....But at this time and place, one has to ask, what's reasonable and what's not? What's available in the form of free aide to these people, and what's not?

When you’re in survival mode, the practice of scavenging can be very useful....

Way ahead of you Enron...

The Psychology of Looting



Martial Law in this particular situation? Sounds about right to me.

Will it be abused or taken advantage of down the road? Who knows.

It takes two to tango.
.

Originally posted by Gools
Way ahead of you Enron...

The Psychology of Looting

Awesome Gools...As proven in the past, we usually find ourselves thinking in the same fashion

I'll read through that thread...

Ok people lets analyze the reality of the situation and why certain things are unable to occur.

Cell phone are obviously out because we all know that cell phone towers placed in varying locations are what allow our mobiles to reach a signal (unless you have a very expensive hard to find phone that taps directly to a satellite). In that kind of wind and flodding it is understandable that the towers are either (a) destroyed, (b) downing of power lines caused them to lsoe energy, or both. So that rules out any communication through mobile phones.

It would be unlikely to see any internet updates because the communications companies in the area have completely lost power, therefore the ability to make boradcasts.

The fact that over 50% of major roads being inaccesable makes it impossible to even get to the back roads of other parts of town, and transportations in probably 80% of the city is limited to boat.

Hopefully instead of stocking up on 100's of gallons of water which was probably lost due to flooding anyways, most consumers went the smart way and purchased several water filters (Brita or PUR) and would be able to save rain water in large containers to be used gradually through the filters. Fact is if they lost their gallon waters to flooding, ANY water they drink from the streets will give them tuberculosis, bacterial infection, or certain death due to the amount of chemical backwash from roads and automobiles/household cleaners/fertilizers/laundry detergants/dish soap/sewage/ all kinds of other consumer chemicals. They cannot be ingested for your own health of course. This will leave people to dehydrate or die from attempts to drink extremely polluted water.

All that is left is looters. I strongly doubt there will be many looters for the simple fact that nearly all normal needs for human survival are gone and a person in the area now has to struggle just to survive the next few days literally. However, because of Martial Law any looter can and will be shot on site. As the only accountability is in the hands of the military and there is zero communications or any way of anyone knowing whether there will be any foul play, any person in the area could theoretically be shot and killed then dumped out to the sharks. Yea if these walls are actually breaking up like the reports are saying and the water level is that high there is the possibility of sharks in the water.

Conclusion, the only thing we as citizens can do is drop off our donations to your local connection center, and wait for communications to be reset. In my opinion the declaration of Martial Law is a tough one to argue. Without the resources of the National Gaurd any remaining survivors will begin to perish soon. Perhaps those rumored American "detention camps" were built to house displaced citizens as a result of something like this?

Keep our eyes and ears open and grab and print any relevant news as soon as you find it. Aything can be shut down in a matter of minutes if the Feds do not want it to get out.

Can a mod please change the erroneous title of this thread? Martial law has NOT been declared (and I'm pretty sure LA does not even allow martial law to ever be declared).

New Orleans is not only known for the French Quarter and beignets, but also for its crime rate. This disaster is only going to exacerbate that problem. Although the homicide rate in the city peaked in 1994 and had declined for a time, murder rates per capita are still ten times the national average for a city of its size and are currently on the rise once again. Louisiana also boasts the "highest state prisoner incarceration rate -- nearly double the national average -- and this without the accompanying nation-leading crime rate."

Louisiana also has the highest infant mortality rates in the nation, as well as the largest percentage of its residents receiving food stamps, nearly double the national average. These folks are definitely not living the all-American white bread suburbanite dream.

Now I am not at all saying this makes for "bad people". What I am saying is that the combination of all these factors in an emergency situation on a mass scale is not a tasty cocktail. In an area that was already disproportionately filled with "desperate people in desperate circumstances", this is probably the worst thing that could have happened.

From my experience, there is a marked sense of division between residents and police, especially along racial lines, and anyone who has attended Mardi Gras in the French Quarter can tell you that the cops don't play if you even so much as breathe wrong. Regionally, they are compared to L.A. cops, as far as community relations and public opinion are concerned. Still, in a city with this serious of a crime problem, I don't know how long my patience and positive attitude would hold out either, if I were a police officer. It will be interesting to see how the local police and National Guard handle the situation.

There should be fewer problems in Gulfport and Biloxi, however, with looting most likely confined only to certain areas. While the Mississippi Gulf Coast is heavily dependent on tourism and hospitality, it is also the home of several major military installations and the locals there have a bit more respect for authority (whether it be civilian or military) because it is such a large part of the demographic cross-section. It's my opinion that the locals in this area will pull together in a much more cohesive and harmonious manner than New Orleans residents will, despite Mississippi taking the heavier hit.


Sources:
nobulletin.blogspot.com...
www.msnbc.msn.com...
www.nola.com.../base/news-4/1124521075239200.xml
www.sfgate.com.../news/archive/2003/10/23/national1349EDT0612.DTL



[edit on 31-8-2005 by Stegosaur]