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Convincing Someone

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posted on Aug, 20 2005 @ 06:06 PM
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I just have a simple question for all the UFO / Alien posters.

What, in your opinion would you consider the best evidence you could provide to a non believer.


Example:
In my opinion telling someone a "Dulce" story is gonna get your nowhere. It may have "facts", but what can be backed up? You cant exactlly show them photos etc.

Just for my example I would try to present the Michalak Falcon lake case.
www.ufoevidence.org...

Why? Because I believe it has some credibility, it has some physical evidence, and it has some "unexplainable" attributes to go along with it.

This is just an example, but I would appreciate it if people went into depth.

Remember this is you trying to convince someone.




posted on Aug, 20 2005 @ 06:09 PM
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I dont need to convince anyone, I know for a fact that they are out there, but ill play along.

Either an actual body or ship, but not in government hand, one me and a mate just stumble on in a field maybe. Or maybe some really convincing footage.

Lots of really.



posted on Aug, 20 2005 @ 06:44 PM
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First, you would have to convince them the possibility exists. And even then you have the obvious hurdle of developing a confidence with them and maintaining an air of believability, somewhat as a teacher instructs a student.

Part of that teaching should include phases that allow them to test and develop their own theories and explanations so that they can determine fact from ficton.

From that point introduce the evidence, whether it be physical, video, or photographic, providing enough to stimulate as many senses as possible allowing them to question and analyze as suits their needs.

Ask for feedback, their opinions and advice, but do not lead them into a trappings of a single viewpoint. Remember you are trying to open their mind become an angst to their learning.

These things are most important at the outset.



posted on Aug, 20 2005 @ 07:04 PM
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I would say showing them Stanton Freidman's work, the Pheonix lights case, the Zimbabwe encounter, the Battle over Los Angelos in WWII, and the Hill abduction case ought to be enough to convince any reasonable person.

But in order to prove beyond reasonable doubt with physical evidence then you would indeed need a body or a craft or undoctored picture of one.



posted on Aug, 20 2005 @ 07:10 PM
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As someone that is not a real believer I would need a body (would be nice if it was alive too) or other tangible evidence such as a craft. Although I do believe in the possiblity I have yet to read or view anything that has really convinced me.



posted on Aug, 20 2005 @ 07:28 PM
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In this day and age it would be extremely hard to convince a non-believer. Photos and videos could be digitally enhanced, eyewitnesses can be deceived or easily debunked by their past misfortunes.

I believe there aren't that many non-believers out there really. Alot of the people you see debunking pics and stories are believers but they don't want to have the wool pulled over their eyes. The true non-believers are so close minded that no matter what proof you bring out for them, they would call it fake. You could park a UFO infront of his/her house and they would say it was a secret airforce plane or something other than what it is.

It's easier to debunk evidence than to prove it. So don't worry about trying to convince the non-believers but convince the rest of the world that really want to believe.



posted on Aug, 20 2005 @ 07:40 PM
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OK, there are so many things that people can say... But now, this goes in both directions...

The best thing so far is: why not? Also, why?

No proof is simply no certainty. We all have our opinions on the matter, but no certainties so far, unless those certainties that you have for yourself.



posted on Aug, 20 2005 @ 07:51 PM
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Well, what exactly do you mean?

In order to convince someone that Aliens exist, I'd take a hunk of logic and slap 'em across the face with it. As for Aliens visiting, it'd take a lot more. I don't think you could do it to a really staunch opponent without them experiencing it first hand, but if they're smart, showing them some of the weird stuff, while it may not convinve them, should at least make sure their mind is a little more open, and that they are a little more alert to things going on. I don't mean like "zOMG SHINY LIGHT I DON'T REMEMBER LAST NIGHT" weird but "Hey, here's a perfectly geometric crop circle and did I mention it appeared at the same time that I found this?" *shows physical evidence*

It's the little things.



posted on Aug, 20 2005 @ 09:27 PM
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With something this Big you must start very small, and slowly build up the amount and complexity of your information.

Math
Hubble Telescope
Current estimate: 125 Billion Galaxies
Galaxies can have 100s of Billions of Stars
Bigger Telescopes, other types of Sensors, 100x more maybe 1,000x
minimum

No matter how we got here, we are here, and in all that
we cannot be it.


Then show them the picture from The Battle of LA
Give the date, the place, and the time of the event

This picture is real, that is a fact.

Now Tell them the story of The Battle of LA, while they look at the picture

Show them the story with the newspaper clippings if possible


We are not it, and sometimes some of them stop by and take a look.

Reports, Pictures, Cave Paintings, cover the span of human history.


Now if they are still talking to you, take them to the Famous Cases,
as listed in the Thread here. Most people however will not make it
far into any of the Cases the first time you talk to them. But they are
good for the follow-up questions the person is going to ask next time.


A.T
(-)

[edit on 8/20/05 by Alexander Tau]



posted on Aug, 20 2005 @ 09:48 PM
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I know one time I tried to explain the battle of L.A. to a friend. They just would not believe me no matter how much info I presented to them.

I dont blame them either. Take the battle of l.a. for example. This is one case where there are supposedly tons of witnesses, photographs (1 good one), the military is involved etc.

Now this all sounds fine, sounds like we have a good presentation. But when you try to back it all up, its pretty hard.

Can you find more photographs of the battle of L.A?
Just an example.

Presenting theory to someone is pretty much useless. People want physical evidence.



posted on Aug, 20 2005 @ 10:43 PM
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I don't feel the need to convince anyone of anything. But if they want to see SOMETHING, we can go drive around in the San Luis valley in So. Colo.
The chances are good that we will see a ufo or have a high strangeness event that is extremely hard to explain with conventional logic. Many friends of mine don't even like to talk about our trips up there and I don't remember anything memorable happening but they seem to. Is this evidence? Maybe on a personal level but it wouldn't stand up in court. That's what makes even looking for evidence of anomilies of this type so exciting. Normal everyday thought processes and logic don't work to well in Chapel Perilous or even in the immediate neighborhood. Concrete, tactile evidence is pretty hard to find and even if you do find some, it has a strange way of either being lost, stolen or otherwise disappearing; part of the mystery, the allure, the adventure of the ultra normal.

[edit on 20-8-2005 by whaaa]



posted on Aug, 20 2005 @ 11:34 PM
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Well, my girlfriend believes that other intelligent lifeforms exist, but doesn't believe they've been visiting us. According to her, it would take nothing short of being able to run down the street to Crazy Xyquatyl's Alien Artifacts shop, and being able to buy a ray gun and a flying saucer.



posted on Aug, 21 2005 @ 12:41 AM
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Dulcimer,

The best evidence you could provide to a non believer.

Its is not about teaching.
It is not about being open minded.
It's about mathamtical possibilities.
It is not about stories on personal web sites.

It is about truly Denying Ignorance

It's about studying all the facts and avoiding excuses
It is about presenting objective unbiased evidence in respected science journals.
It is about presenting irrefutable evidence that makes an unbelievers jaw drop. Something that has been bourne out by independant unversity or licensed laboratory tests.

Unfortuantely for over 50 years there has been a load of fraud and deception by unscrupulous people played on interested civilians. In many cases to make a quick buck. The study of UFOs is almost like watching a circus side show, haox after fraud after hoax. Lets face it, its so bad the tabloids often use UFO's in their headlines.

To get people to believe, individuals really need to learn to bring up hard cold material and facts. Put those to the test and apply some hard objective reasoning. Some real acid tests.


[edit on 21-8-2005 by nullster]



posted on Aug, 21 2005 @ 01:18 AM
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I would direct them to this debate.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

It's what opened me,a lifetime skeptic,up the possibility of alien visitation. While it didn't totally convince me it did lead me to do some research and after finding and reading cover to cover a book called Humanity's Extraterrestrial Origins I have little if any doubt that aliens visited/visit us rather frequently.



posted on Aug, 21 2005 @ 02:11 AM
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Rain King should have won.
My position hasn't changed.

People do put far too much emphasis on speculation and questionable theories to support their beliefs. It really is the root on blind faith. He also noted very well that people are too quick to accept internet posts as legitimate in providing proof. I see it allot here. Seeing and reading what one wants to see and read. A guy named Bill in California put it on his site, it must be true...so who is Bill and why should I believe him?

Not to mention the contradictory theories presented by BlackJackal. I won't even bother with Roswell. In his words The single most fascinating event concerning aliens visiting earth is Roswell 1947. May fascinating, but Roswell is the poster child of conspiracy accusations. It presents no hard evidence but conveniently/unfortunately applies misdirection for lack of any physical evidence. When I don't have proof, its a conspiracy or cover up.

I need a crashed UFO or alien body. After 60 years we have none. Or I take that back after 200,000 years we have none. However long aliens visited teh planet.



posted on Aug, 21 2005 @ 03:31 AM
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A ufo landing on the whitehouse lawn, all the while I'm jumping up and down scream told ya so!!!


Actually I think anyone of gazrok's post would be a nice starting point. The Betty hill star map is interesting, Roswell does have some evidence, plus the goverment is still trying to cover it up even if the tech is just a secret project. Even the stealth tech is unvailed and it wasn't started on til decades later. Battle of LA as well.

But to make a non believer a believer, it will take a face to face meeting with an ET.



posted on Aug, 21 2005 @ 03:33 AM
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Well,as I said,it wasn't that Black Jackal convinced me. It was that he provided enough suggestion to make me decide to do some research of my own. Once I did that I found there was much more evidence of extraterrestrial visitation than I'd ever thought. And scientifically speaking it soon became more of a stretch to me to think we hadn't been visisted than that we had.



Originally posted by nullster
I need a crashed UFO or alien body. After 60 years we have none. Or I take that back after 200,000 years we have none. However long aliens visited teh planet.




But the thing is,once you research you soon understand that there can be bodies lying everywhere and we still wouldn't "have" any because it gets covered up. That's documented. It's not a matter of not having any,it's a matter of what will and won't be revealed publically about what we have. Bodies become a matter of perspective in these matters. 35 aliens could be found lying on a farmer's land and Joe Citizen would never hear about it. And any eyewitness that reports it would be declared crazy. That's by design. So bodies are not what you're waiting for. What you're actually waiting for is admittance of bodies by the local news. Which is unlikely to happen no matter how many bodies there may be. If you want to really explore extraterrestrial life you have to think outside what you are commonly told.



posted on Aug, 21 2005 @ 04:56 AM
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One possible convincing report might be the 1980 Rendlsham US Airforce incident in Britain at a joint US/British Base.

It has Military people: Sgt Jim Penniston, Col Halt eyewitness detailed reports. As well as other Military personnel. There were craft, and physical proof through pictures and castings of tripod indentations of landing involved.

Both the Ret Co and Sgt are still alive today and supporting the event. Many documentories on the case have been made since /96, (most of which I still have on tape).

Dallas



posted on Aug, 21 2005 @ 05:26 AM
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Originally posted by Dulcimer
Just for my example I would try to present the Michalak Falcon lake case.
www.ufoevidence.org...


From that page:

Summoning his nerve, Michalak approached the open door and stuck his head inside. There he saw a maze of lights on what appeared to be a panel, and beams of light in horizontal and diagonal patterns. There was also a cluster of lights flashing in a random sequence "like on a computer."

To be honest even if I saw a picture of this, the actuall item and a certificate from an alien that its 100% real alien technology, I would still laugh hysterically at it due to its description, lol!!!


Unless aliens really DO have computer panels from the 60's and 70's

Sure the sighting was made then, but what are the chances they would have that stupid design? You'd think aliens would employ monitors.

Anyway, what I would do to convince anyone is not to refer to any particular sighting... I would tell them to read about ALL major sightings. When you sit down after reading them (like on www.ufocasebook.com) and think on it, you cant ignore it anymore. There IS something out there.

[edit on 21-8-2005 by merka]



posted on Aug, 21 2005 @ 05:53 AM
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Simple - present the statistics my friend along with credible sources and
they may just start to sway,then tell them go look for yourself.

What i mean by that:

There are more stars in the Universe than grains of sand on all the beaches in the world.
Does anyone actually think that 'our' grain of sand is the only grain to contain life (not my quote)? So that puts the stats of us being alone at 1-99999999999999999 damn i guess that number just goes on.

Then the 'Credible' witness statements by this i mean gloablly -
Pilots
Astronuants
High ranking officials
Military sightings on cockpit displays
Not your everyday crackpots.

Then there is all the pics and footage (no not shakey Prohpet Yaheww)
I mean NASA footage there is plenty.

I think when one weighs up everything What else could it be. ?
Personally i think our minds are being conditioned to accepts UFO's and Aliens maybe not our minds but certainly our childrens.
I say this as i was reading a book to my 3 year old girl .
Out of all the pictures on the cover she reckonized the 'Space ship'
and shes only 3 .
All the films over the 20 or so years like Independence Day/ MIB/ ect ect
They are there to open the minds so the shock factor will not be there in another 30-50 years or so as we will have a new generation who will have grown up with UFO's and Aliens as a kinda normality.

Well thats my 2 cents worth anyway.




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