The War on Ignorance has many fronts, conspiratorial and otherwise. ONE of the fronts is politics and the people we elect to office. This is exemplified by the single "political conspiracies" forum on our site.

Over the past several weeks a disturbing, thoroughly UNenjoyable trend has emerged that ENDS NOW.

This trend is the unmitigated and obnoxiously repetitive insertion of "the Neo-Cons are all crooks/murderers" and "the bleeding heart Liberals are all traitors" and many variations thereof in threads that have NOTHING to do with either of those comments.

This is a "slick" way to hi-jack a thread and turn a good conversation into yet another tiresome political bickering match. I say "slick" because it doesn't violate the TAC directly.

Additionally, the never ending debate/sniping between the Liberals and Conservatives is NOT ATS subject matter PERIOD. The Administrators and owners of this site have bent over backwards to give the membership a place to have those arguments, P@ATS, a unique and COMPLETE message board with all the bells and whistles.

I know a certain amount of political infusion is unavoidable in many conversations, that's fine. The rational input of a political perspective or ideal is a normal course of discussion. The insertion of anti-liberal/conservative diatribe in a discussion about another subject is NOT fine. The insertion of pro-liberal/conservative diatribe in a discussion about another subject is NOT fine.

The continued sniping and baiting, posting something you know is going to get a reaction out of another member for the sole purpose of "getting a reaction out of another member", is no longer going to be tolerated.

This is not limited to politics either. Religious diatribe and anti religious diatribe for the sole purpose of continuing or starting ludicrous argument is not welcome here either.

This has gotten so far out of hand that the Moderators have been asked to go to "STRICT ENFORCEMENT" mode.

This means ANY POST deemed a "bait" a, "snipe" or any post that has the above mentioned interjections mixed in it when they are utterly out of place will be edited, the member will be warned.

The Moderators are going to edit the post since too many GOOD threads have been hi-jacked and moved to another forum because a few people can't seem to say anything without adding their political-anti political/religious-anti religious commentary.

When you are typing out a reply, imagine you are talking to that person face to face. Would you add "Bush is a criminal" or "The liberals are weak traitors" in response to a conversation about a criminal who is about to be executed?

Let's look at it...

A conversation about favorite lunch selections...

Bob - "I think I am going to have a big fat chesseburger for lunch George what do you want? "

George - "It figures you'd ask me that Bob, the Liberals are all weak traitors and you are too because you didn't vote for Bush that's why you like cheese on your burger"

Or...

A conversation about irrational fears...

Bob - "When I was a kid I was afraid of clowns"

George - "That's because you are stupid Christian and you've been brainwashed into thinking the world just appeared out of nothing despite all the scientific evidence."

George wouldn't last long in my neighborhood, and I, for one, don't want him around my "Digital neighborhood" if he's going to act like that.

Effective immediately, George is going to be edited and warned until he gets with the program or moves on.

Springer...

Point well made.
It gets infuriating sometimes when ignorance takes over and the labelling starts. How those starting the name calling can tag someone as a liberal, right / left winger etc, without even knowing them is beyond me. It does, as you have pointed out, stifle debate rather than encourage it.

I've spent my last few weeks on here specifically trying to avoid those types of posts, but like you said they are getting out of hand. I'd like to think I'm innocent of such baiting/retalliating, but I'm sure I'm wrong. Either way, I'm VERY glad you made this post Springer, and more importantly I hope it has the desired effect.

true....too often a serious opinion, query or concept is simply dismissed in order to toss out a "one-liner". If you do have a good "zinger" -- great but have something else to add besides simply entering into a childish interchange; i.e. "Did so", "Did not", "Did so" exchange. I always thought of a "good post" as one that had something of substance to add to a conversation. If a bit of humor can be injected, great but, again, there has to be "something" of value to add to the discussion....not merely a witty or crass remark.

Here here. I cannot tell you how annoying it has been to have to sit through endless and pointless back and forth arguments about two sides of American politics. Especially for us non-Americans who don't even really know what it is that is being promoted/denigrated.

Here's hoping that ATS can rid itself of such pointless squabbling.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

I am very happy to hear this. I got so tired of the bickering I just stopped posting most of the time. Looking forward to 'Strict Enforcement Mode".

I feel sorry for the mods, you've got a big job ahead of you. Good luck.

I agree 100% Springer. Brilliantly said on everyone's behalf here at ATS who is sick of the bickering between people. Frankly, it doesn't make you look smart, and people don't want to listen to the point of the thread when that happens. We're all in this together, so why can't we just get along?

I agree with this move.
If someone posts on a subject all further posts should directly relate to the subject.

The real problem-as I see it- is we are all a bunch of very passionate people on certain issues. Also, most /all of us feel that ATS is one of the only places where these highly charged topics can be discussed. We all have such strong feelings that sometimes we don't realize what we are doing-changing the topic from what is was to some personal insult/attack.

I think we all can stand to take a step back and think before we post. I know on several occastions I had written a very nasty reply to a post, but had the sence on mind to reread it and not post it.

This is awesome, I'm glad to hear all of y'all have seen that, too, and are doing something about it.

Bob - "I think I am going to have a big fat chesseburger for lunch George what do you want? "

George - "It figures you'd ask me that Bob, the Liberals are all weak traitors and you are too because you didn't vote for Bush that's why you like cheese on your burger"
...
Bob - "When I was a kid I was afraid of clowns"

George - "That's because you are stupid Christian and you've been brainwashed into thinking the world just appeared out of nothing despite all the scientific evidence."

That was hilarious!!!

The only reason you are doing this to us is because you are a commi-christian who does/doesn't care about the future of america/canada/england and I bet you even voted for the $#&^%%$ bush/kerry/blair.

All kidding aside...very VERY good idea. Lets take back ATS and discuss things we really want to discuss....now where did I put that alien anal probe I found outside when I was looking at the crop circles that government contrail creators said didnt exsist..oh well...nevermind!

Take notice of this post.

It will be strictly enforced by staff.

How about peoples signatures that are designed to spread dissension, non thread debate, and generally make others angry. Isn't this just a subtle way to get around TAC? Baiting!!
Even some avatars are extremely distasteful and flamable. Baiting!!

I hate the emoticons. If you got something to say, Say it. Baiting!!
[edit on 19-8-2005 by whaaa]

[edit on 19-8-2005 by whaaa]

[edit on 19-8-2005 by whaaa]

Maybe I'm guilty of this although I've never been warned or anything. Frankly, I think this "no-politics on ATS" is a battle you will be fighting for the site's existence. Conspiracy seem too intertwined with politics to really separate it, particularly when there is a wide range of communication skills on ATS.

I saw the black band is still up, even on the new logo. Is it still a problem? Honestly I wish we could have some example threads of what is overtly unacceptable posting behavior, because although I don't see myself as baiting, I am sarcastic at times. If I've never been warned, does that mean I'm okay?

It seems tough to keep people from discussing politics, particularly with ATS growing so fast. IMO, some of the best points are made in flame-type posts. I tend to look at the content of the post as the mark of its value, even if it's five pages deep of arguing. Discussion of politics doesn't bug me. It seems like the people who are either Dem or Repub are the ones who see this as a problem. As a member of neither party, I just don't see what the issue is. If I slam Clinton and Bush in the same post, am I baiting anyone?

Thank you. One of the main reasons I joined this site was how welcoming it was. When you logged on, you felt as though you were relaxing on the front porch chatting with neighbors about the UFO in the back yard and the underground base down the road and didn't have to worry about being snipped at about politics and religion. I was worried this was slowly drifting away. But, once again, my fears have been alleviated, and I am once again back on the front porch... Love ATS!

Originally posted by smallpeeps
Conspiracy seem too intertwined with politics to really separate it, particularly when there is a wide range of communication skills on ATS.

In War on Terrorism and Political Conspiracies politics is obviously involved.

That doesn't mean members can bait, name-call and disrespect other members.

I quote from Springer's initial post:

I know a certain amount of political infusion is unavoidable in many conversations, that's fine. The rational input of a political perspective or ideal is a normal course of discussion. The insertion of anti-liberal/conservative diatribe in a discussion about another subject is NOT fine. The insertion of pro-liberal/conservative diatribe in a discussion about another subject is NOT fine.

The continued sniping and baiting, posting something you know is going to get a reaction out of another member for the sole purpose of "getting a reaction out of another member", is no longer going to be tolerated.

Biggest problem I see these days is that people jump to conclussions with the weirdest logic (I actualy mean, without logic, since they reply without even thinking).

Someone states:

I don't believe in the death penalty.

Someone answers:

You treehugging liberal.

The first someone elaborates his standpoint:

I'm an atheist and find that the death penalty is the easy way out for criminals since I don't believe there is an afterlife, I rather see them rott in jail for the rest of their life and if posible, they should reach the age of 100 without ever leaving jail!

I guess this is exactly what you mean with people starting lefty/righty flames in topics that have nothing to do with the subject.

Sorry, I've been a bit funny lately - dunno why but I have been a bit snappy and left bait and taken it too. *twitch* time for more meds I think...

*EDIT * - time to learn to spell too..

[edit on 19-8-2005 by AgentSmith]

Way to go Springer !!!...

P.S. love the quote in your signature.