What was the best unit during WWII?

I would like to nominate the 11th SS Volunteer Panzergrenadier Division Nordland. They were one of the few SS units that had no war crimes.

I have also heard that the Estonian SS were good soldiers.

The movia about Winter War is named (suprise suprise) Winter War, and it's worth watching one of the best movies i know.
And the SMG was named SUOMI (=Finland in Finnish) but majority of the army was armed wiyh shortened Mosin-Nagants nicknamed pystykorva

The Winter War, the one time the Russians haven't been able to rely on the winter, probably because they were attacking instead of defending!

A great deal of Finland's success is to do with Marshall Mannerheim. He was a canny leader and he was facing the survivors of Stalin's purges. ie dynamic thinking versus frightened, plodding donkeys.

The Russians also had some of the worst tanks available, remember this is the end of the era of multi-turret tanks, it was this experience that led directly to the T-34.

Traditionally the Russians had always carried out aggressive, expansionist wars in summer, and were trained and equipped for it. The Finns were trained to defend their country regardless of the season. They were also far more motivated than the Red Army. (And Churchill had a plan to send UK troops to Norway, from where they could violate Sweden's neutrality to aid Finland!)

I've never seen Winter War, but there's a great German film called Stalingrad. Nastiest winter combat scenes I've watched on film.

Mannerheim is overrated as a commander, he was a great leader and inspiration to people, but the true geniuses in Finnish HQ were his planners like Gen. Airo, or divisional/army commanders like Gen.Lagus or Gen.Siillasvuo and many other brave a intelligent men...

And when it comes to weather winters in Finland differ from those encountered in russian steppes. The temperatures are the same, but more snow, less light, and endless forrests that prevent effective use of armour..

Well, i have always admired the British SAS, and the american rangers if we're talking about ground troops... My favourite divisions i still the 82nd wich made a "hell of a job" in Normandy.. Of course I respect the
www.normandyallies.org... "Bedford boys" who made a real sacrafice during the Normandy invasion... They lsot their best friends, their closest mates for our freedom...

[edit on 11-8-2005 by Figher Master FIN]

If its any service then Id have to go with 617 squadron RAF Even ignoring the achievments on the Damnbusting raid. They were responsable for sinking the Tirpitz, destroying many vital bridges, canals and aquducts. Heavily damaging the V1 and V2 production. And on the eve of operation overlord convincing the German radar operators that the invasion force was heading to the Pas de Calais instead of Normandy

Cheers

Debaser

Originally posted by Debaser
If its any service then Id have to go with 617 squadron RAF Even ignoring the achievments on the Damnbusting raid. They were responsable for sinking the Tirpitz, destroying many vital bridges, canals and aquducts. Heavily damaging the V1 and V2 production. And on the eve of operation overlord convincing the German radar operators that the invasion force was heading to the Pas de Calais instead of Normandy

Cheers

Debaser

Yes, In my opinion they did a good job too... To sink Tripiz wasn't an easy task... But they wouldn't have been so special if it wouldn't have been for their main engineer Barnes Wallis and fleet leader Guy Gibson...

[edit on 11-8-2005 by Figher Master FIN]

gibson left shortly after the damn busters mission he was replaced by leonard cheshire.

Wallis rocked one of the best weapon designers of his time.

But the crews were supurbly trained and credit should be given to them

Originally posted by Debaser
gibson left shortly after the damn busters mission he was replaced by leonard cheshire.

Wallis rocked one of the best weapon designers of his time.

But the crews were supurbly trained and credit should be given to them

Yes, the crew was very good...Trained to the ultimate... I will always respect them...

An old friend of my father (now sadly departed) served with the army commandos, told a great story about how came to be in the commandos.

He was in the lifeguards driving little ferret armoured scout cars. Now he was a really big guy (over 6ft 2in and nearly 20 stone (280lb to yanks 120-30kg for rest) and he reckoned it took him up to 2 minutes to get in and out of the vehicle - not good as if they got hit they tended to catch fire very quickly.

So he decided to look for a transfer only 2 units were open for him to transfer to paratroopers - well he did not fancy jumping out of an perfectly good aeroplane - and some new-fangled thing called Commandos - well nobody could tell him what the unit did so he assumed it would be a cushy number something to do with command HQ - probably being a driver or an orderly - so he joined up.

He told me many other stories about his life in the commando - but never about any action he saw, save once caught him a bit melcancholy - he said thinking about a raid across a lake in Italy - said he saw things that no man should see he would not say anymore than that.

patton's 3rd army -2nd infantry-5th division-(red diamonds) was probably the best.They had the most battles and traveled the furthest into enemy ground.Most notable was the battle of the buldge and the normandy invasion. NO QUESTION THEY WERE THE BEST. GOD BLESS THEM ALL.

Dad's army...BBC Television 1970's

a classic..

seriously it was a team effort, units in the right place at the right time

Originally posted by northwolf
The movia about Winter War is named (suprise suprise) Winter War, and it's worth watching one of the best movies i know.
And the SMG was named SUOMI (=Finland in Finnish) but majority of the army was armed wiyh shortened Mosin-Nagants nicknamed pystykorva

Is this the finnish "Talvisota"...? If so, here is what i think about it...

The movie wasn't good, it was really unrelistic, soldiers made it from the worst places, and sometimes a plane, a big bombplane tried to kill only one man... The tanks didn't look real... , sorry Northwolf, that's just my opinion...

[edit on 13-8-2005 by Figher Master FIN]

It's a matter of opinion... i liked it
but a fact is that the tanks in the talvisota were real russian tanks from finnish museums.

btw it's based on book by Antti Tuuri (i don't know if it's translated to English)

What about the scene when a bombplane tried to kill one man with a horse...?

Originally posted by timoothy
patton's 3rd army -2nd infantry-5th division-(red diamonds) was probably the best.They had the most battles and traveled the furthest into enemy ground.Most notable was the battle of the buldge and the normandy invasion. NO QUESTION THEY WERE THE BEST. GOD BLESS THEM ALL.

No no no

3rd army was only formed after the bulk of the hard Normandy fighting was over with Brits and Canadians facing the vast bulk of the Panzers in the worst terrain possible.

Patton had to be ordered to close the south jaw of the Falaise Pocket after the Polish 1st Armoured's heroic & sacrificial action after refusing many requests - allowing many, many germans to escape the pocket.

Better than SS Panzer? Hardly!

Originally posted by Popeye
An old friend of my father (now sadly departed) served with the army commandos, told a great story about how came to be in the commandos.

He was in the lifeguards driving little ferret armoured scout cars. Now he was a really big guy (over 6ft 2in and nearly 20 stone (280lb to yanks 120-30kg for rest) and he reckoned it took him up to 2 minutes to get in and out of the vehicle - not good as if they got hit they tended to catch fire very quickly.

So he decided to look for a transfer only 2 units were open for him to transfer to paratroopers - well he did not fancy jumping out of an perfectly good aeroplane - and some new-fangled thing called Commandos - well nobody could tell him what the unit did so he assumed it would be a cushy number something to do with command HQ - probably being a driver or an orderly - so he joined up.

He told me many other stories about his life in the commando - but never about any action he saw, save once caught him a bit melcancholy - he said thinking about a raid across a lake in Italy - said he saw things that no man should see he would not say anymore than that.

Nice story - not sure it could be a ferret though - it's a post-war vehicle (many still running / road legal ). Main UK armoured car AFAIK was the Rolls-Royce or the Humber (?)

put on your reading glasses,you asked for it


The 1st Infantry Division, which had suffered heavy casualties in the landing, was relieved in the line by the 5th Infantry Division, which had come ashore at Utah Beach on D+3. , but when the 1st Division pulled back,some stayed in the line as a member of the 5th Division, exchanging their "Big Red One" patch for the red diamond of the 5th.

On July 26th, 1944, the 5th Division launched its first attack of the war, on the town of Vidouville. In August, the 5th Division was transferred to Patton's Third Army. The 5th Infantry Division was part of Patton's great break-out from the Normandy beachhead, and the division raced to seize bridgeheads across the Loire and Maines Rivers, quickly capturing the city of Angers. The division then moved north, capturing Chartres on August 19th. The division raced on capture a series of objectives to the south of Paris, severing German communications and supply lines between Northern and Southern France. The 5th Division continued to drive east, crossing the Marne, and capturing Reims on August 29th. On September 1st, the division captured Verdun, having fought 700 miles across France in just under four weeks.

The division was soon back in combat, however, attacking a German defensive line on the Moselle River. After suffering 1,400 casualties, the division breached the German lines and established a bridgehead. On November 9th, Patton's 3rd Army began its assault on Metz, perhaps the most heavily-fortified city in Europe. Metz fell on November 21st, but 3rd Army suffered some of its heaviest casualties of the war.

By December, 1944, American units, including the 5th Division, had reached the end of their supply lines, and were settling into fixed positions to rest and resupply. This momentary calm was broken when the Germans launched a powerful counter-offensive in the Ardennes. They broke through thinly-held American lines, aiming to recapture Antwerp and drive a wedge between U.S. and British forces. Patton, in one of the most celebrated maneuvers of the war, reoriented his entire army and launched a counter-offensive within days. The 5th Division was again at the forefront, relieving the battered 4th Division at Luxembourg City, and attacking the southern flank of the German salient or "Bulge.
The division drove the Germans back onto the Sauer River, decimating two German divisions, and recapturing much lost American equipment. As the lead division for the XII Corps, the 5th Division then crossed the Sauer, breached the Siegfried Line, moved North to Bitburg and then east to the Rhine river. The division regrouped at the Rhine River near Oppenheim. On the night of March 22, 1945, units of the 5th Division crossed the Rhine without a shot being fired. By the next day, the entire 5th Division had crossed the Rhine and established an extensive bridgehead.

Next the 5th Division drove towards Frankfurt. Expecting to make another river crossing, the 5th Division fortuitously found a bridge still standing. Advancing under heavy artillery fire, the 5th Division crossed the bridge and entered Frankfurt. Over the next four days, the infantry regiments of the 5th fought house to house. By March 28, Frankfurt had been cleared of German forces.

On April 7, 1945, the 5th Division was ordered to link up with the III Corps of the 1st Army to clean out the "Ruhr Pocket." The 5th Division assaulted the center of the pocket. Several German divisions were wiped out, and tens of thousands of prisoners were captured.


On April 23, the 5th Division began a rapid advance to their next objectives, on the Czech/Austrian border, 300 miles away. The division arrived on April 30 and attacked east into Czechoslovakia. The division met little resistance until May 7th, when they ran into elements of the 11th Panzer Division. A violent fire-fight ensued, but ten minutes into it, both sides received word of the German surrender. With that, the war in Europe was over for the 5th Division.

In June 1945, the 5th was relieved, and prepared for transfer back to the U.S., and service in the Pacific. Fortunately, the Japanese surrendered before the 5th was required.

In his farewell address to the men of the 5th Division, General Patton said, "Nothing I can say can add to the glory which you have achieved. Throughout the whole advance across France you spearheaded the attack of your Corps. You crossed so many rivers that I am persuaded many of you have web-feet and I know that all of you have dauntless spirit. To my mind history does not record incidents of greater valor than your crossing of the Sauer and Rhine."

I do have more on the 5th if you like,just ask.

The Germans had the best equipment and troop training, along with their fanatical drive. The SS Liebenstandarte by far was the first "big" ultra-trained fighting group. THE most effective and battle-proven small special forces group was led by Otto skorzeny, his Special Forces group did the impossible numerous times, including landing gliders at night on a rocky hill assaulting a castle on that hill, and taking the entire complex with no shots fired, and rescuing "El Duce" and getting him out of there. skorzeny's other numerous feats include kidnapping the President of Hungary's son with just him and two other SS soldiers.

www.adolfhitler.ws...
en.wikipedia.org...
www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk...
auschwitz.dk...
homepages.ius.edu...


The evidence is overwhelming that Otto alone is the Greatest commando of ww2 but most importantly it shows that his Commando unit did FAR GREATER things than any other small Allied Special Forces did.

And here is the link to the 1st SS division, one of the most battle-proven units ever created.

en.wikipedia.org...
[edit on 14-8-2005 by horten229v3]

[edit on 14-8-2005 by horten229v3]

Originally posted by timoothy
put on your reading glasses,you asked for it


Edited to prevent yet more warnings

I do have more on the 5th if you like,just ask.

Good post mate. I'd agree it's an impressive record, there are many, many others and many brave young men died on all sides. My point was they weren't 3rd army 'till August as Patton was 'commanding' the phantom army in Kent.

Patton isn't quite the war-winning general he and his PR would have you believe. His post-war treatment by the US Govt does indicate he'd got far too big for his boots. With the weight of media / film the US has American generals tend to be talked up above other more worthy candidates. For Example General 'Uncle Bill' slim was probably the best, most-capable allied general but is unknown in the states and hardly-known here.

Pax - let's add the 5th to the list of quality units who fought & died as were ordered.