U.S. troops using confiscated Iraqi AK-47s

Originally posted by Shining Wizard
The AK is a better weapon, less accurate but more reliable then the M-16, also carries a few different types of rounds. The issue here is the lack of firepower supplied to the troops, how can you go to war without one gun for one man, Damn Bill Clinton and his budget cutbacks.


AK-47 is one of the best guns ever made, period, most of the guns these Iraqi's are using are probably 20 or 25 years old and still holding up.


Hat's off to Kalishnakov (Spelling?) great gun

the AK is 7.62 and the M-16 is 5.56. id rather have an AK cause you can take a hand full of dust and put it down the barrle and the damn thing will still work

most guns will work if you toss dust down the barrel,it is the action that is effected by dust -n-dirt,An M-60 machine gun is one of those that will eat dirt,lots of room for it to fall back out of the weapon,and it has about a 400m accurate range,my sw760 has a taste for dirt too,it likes it.
Sand isn't good for anything,it messes everything up no matter what it is,but m-16 and ar types are especially troublesome in sandy environments,tolerances are too close,too complex of a mechanism.

Originally posted by Hyperspace
My favorite pistol is the Glock 21C 45ACP...I love mine.

I would be VERY careful with that G 21C.... I saw one go "convertible" on the range, a few tables down from me. He was shooting factory ammo, and it split the barrel, slide, and blew the magazine out the bottom of the gun...

Check this link out...

gunzone.sccltd.net...

Originally posted by uNBaLaNCeD
most guns will work if you toss dust down the barrel,it is the action that is effected by dust -n-dirt,An M-60 machine gun is one of those that will eat dirt,lots of room for it to fall back out of the weapon,and it has about a 400m accurate range,my sw760 has a taste for dirt too,it likes it.
Sand isn't good for anything,it messes everything up no matter what it is,but m-16 and ar types are especially troublesome in sandy environments,tolerances are too close,too complex of a mechanism.

im ment sand

Most of you know this...but to you that don't, The kill power of a AK 47 and 74 is greater to that of the M16 because it has a bigger bullet. Guns like the CAR-15 and MP-5 overpenetrate targets therefore making the target live longer.....which is the opposite of the point. Ak's, with larger rounds compared to the standard american guns, tear more fleash going through the body, and therefore increase the kill power of one shot. And as for kick-back the AKS-74 Beta Spetz Natz is the best bet in terms of Kalisnikovs.

Originally posted by omega1
Most of you know this...but to you that don't, The kill power of a AK 47 and 74 is greater to that of the M16 because it has a bigger bullet. Guns like the CAR-15 and MP-5 overpenetrate targets therefore making the target live longer.....which is the opposite of the point. Ak's, with larger rounds compared to the standard american guns, tear more fleash going through the body, and therefore increase the kill power of one shot. And as for kick-back the AKS-74 Beta Spetz Natz is the best bet in terms of Kalisnikovs.

Hmmm.. partially true.

The Ak-74 is actually chambered for 5.45x39mm, which is actually smaller in diameter than the American 5.56x45mm/.223 (and actually ballistically inferior to the American round).

The entire point of the AK-74 was to give the Soviets a full auto rifle that was easier to control in full auto and therefore (hopefully) more accurate than the original AK-47 in 7.62x39mm.

Now, consider what actually affects stopping power in most rifle bullets: tumbling. The first generation of M-16, VietNam era, actually possessed the highest point in stopping power for the rifle, (and consequently the worst level of accuracy). This was because it used a 55 gr FMJ bullet with a barrel rifling twist of 1 turn in 12 inches, far too slow to adequately stabilize such a light high velocity round. The result was a bullet very unstable in flight, leading to horrendous accuracy, but, when it impacted a human target, it tumbled, causing enormous soft tissue damage, far in excess of even an expanding hollopoint round.

However, the military decided to "fix" things, by going to a 1 in 7" twist barrel, which stabilized the bullet, and resulted in nice neat tiny .22 caliber holes in the people the army was shooting at, with an enormous reduction in stopping power. This was further exacerbated when they went to the new 62 gr steel core penetrator round with a 1 in 9" twist, creating very dangerous levels of overpenetration and even lower stopping power.

Hey, what do you expect from the army?

The Russians, to thier credit, at least attempted to overcome this problem. They designed a round with a copper jacket, with a lead core at the base of the round, and a hollow airspace at the point of the bullet. When fired, the lead core remained at the base of the bullet, it was properly stabilized and (for the russians anyway) acceptably accurate. On impact, the lead core would slide forward into the air space, destabilizing the round and making it tumble, which, in theory, should vastly increase the stopping power.

I do not know how effective this round was, although I understand that troops issued with the AK-74 in Chechnya requested repeatedly to be rearmed with the older AK-47, and indeed, many used captured AK-47s from dead Chechens when possible.

The AKS-74Beta is an interesting development... ballistically, it is nothing new to the AK-74, as it uses the same round. However, in the quest for better controllability and accuracy, it was made with a wierd wire pully system under the forward handguard to control rate of fire. Upon firing, the first 2 rounds fire at 1800 rpm (essentially fire as one round), before "kicking down" to the normal 600 rpm rate of fire. This allows a double tap to be fired as a single round (in terms of the recoil impulse), and not a bad idea actually, as it doubles you impact energy and stopping power, while not decreasing your hit rate.

Also, the muzzle break on the Beta uses the old sonic whistle that you used to use to call your dog: this was due to the fact that troops issued with the AK-74 had a higher rate of loss of hearing, due to the increased muzzle blast. The muzzle break on the Beta shifts that muzzle blast into the ultrasonic range, and does not damage the human ear.

I know what ya mean by recoil on the 7.62 round. i picked up my first weapon that fires that round this weekend and I'm a big guy but that thing has some kick to it.





I really like it nevertheless and I got it for a song.

The M-44 is the close cousin of the Russian made Mosin Nagant M-91/30 and brother to the Russian Mosin Nagant M-38 Short Rifle chambered in the faithful Russian 7.62x54R (the same round that the famous Russian/Chinese made Dragunov sniper rifle is chambered in).


i actually bought it as a novelty really but after shooting it, I have really began to look at it for more utilitarian puposes. The foldback bayonet is cool too. Engaging and disengaging the safety is a little awkward and noisy but I can deal with it.

The Moisin Nagant M-44 Carbine is chambered in 7.62x54R (rimmed), and is ballistically equivalent to the 30.06, which is significantly more powerful than any of the assualt rifle calibers. The 7.62mm NATO/.308 Winchester is about equal in power.

The M-44 is a cool little carbine, although it is a little light (and therefore very impressive recoil) for such a powerful round. This would likely be helped a good deal with the installation of a good soft rubber recoil pad though.

Originally posted by dragonrider
The M-44 is a cool little carbine, although it is a little light (and therefore very impressive recoil) for such a powerful round. This would likely be helped a good deal with the installation of a good soft rubber recoil pad though.

Good idea D.R. That will be a good weekend project and will make that little kick much softer. I'm not sure if it kicks hard enough to make me pull off the shot but better safe than a miss and my arms are a bit long for the short stock as well. I really need a little more length which a pad would take care of also.

Pacmayr makes a recoil pad called the decelerator with various degrees of hardness and softness. They run about $20-$40 depending on which one you get, and they do have many no-gunsmithing models that you basically just unscrew the existing buttplate and screw the recoil pad on with replacement screws. However, I doubt they have any for the Nagant rifles, which means doing a bit of gunsmithing, or getting a gunsmith to fit it for you.

Still, should be able to get it done for about $60 or total.

You can get them up to 3" extra length of pull.

Good luck!

I was starting to produce some foglights just before my divorce,lost my concentration...,but I bought a small mill ($400) and a small lathe($300) for light machine work,it also came in handy for other stuff,like the mags that my gun uses.
I bought 20 ea 30 round sten sub-gun mags for 2 bucks apiece,modified them on my mill and developed a system to attach the catch to hold them in,which was my own design and did not involve welding,much simpler...
A rubber butt pad would be easy to make from a block of silicone,or you could even use firm density foam to cut pieces and build it up in layers,(packing crates usually have this in them,it can be dug out of a dumpster,cut to shape with a breadknife...)recess a longer screw and washer in it to attach it,foam would be lighter too since it is mostly air,it could even be covered with a huge piece of heat shring tubing to make it look pretty.
Everything you need is in your toolbox,your toolbox is in your head,you may find yourself unable to find a gunsmith if things happen like this thread started out addressing...anyway...
I am sure that anyone who is a gunsmith would be closely watched by the NWO,or disappeared,guns are power,they don't want us to have any..
They're already here by the way (The NWO)

Simply switching our weapons from M16s/M4 to the AK47's would be the biggest disgrace in US military history. Why is it that you want to switch to the weapon that represents communism, terrorism, and tyranny? You dont simply switch to the enemy's weapons just because they're good! You go and make a weapon or find one that twice as good as the enemy's weapon!

Originally posted by AgentMulder320
Simply switching our weapons from M16s/M4 to the AK47's would be the biggest disgrace in US military history. Why is it that you want to switch to the weapon that represents communism, terrorism, and tyranny? You dont simply switch to the enemy's weapons just because they're good! You go and make a weapon or find one that twice as good as the enemy's weapon!

Why switch to the AK-47? Because no matter what you do to it, it will continue to function. If you sneeze on the AR-15/M-16, it will likely seize up on you (as it did during the 507th ambush, EVERY weapon jammed).

If you want something twice as good as the AK-47, we had it, about 50 years ago... the M-14...

the US military should switch over to the AK. itll be a good invesment in the long run. espically if WWIII is to break out. what am i talking about! its already begun

What has bolt-action Romanian rip-off of the Russian M44 carbine to do with anything?

But you are right, M44 carbine is short, light and agile weapon that packs good ko-power..

One just must hit the target every time..

[Edited on 19-9-2003 by FaithDefender]

Man, our country sure can be stupid sometimes. Posted by FaithDefender..

The adoption of the M-16 rifle and the 5.56mm NATO round is proof positive of this....

Originally posted by dragonrider
Man, our country sure can be stupid sometimes. Posted by FaithDefender..

The adoption of the M-16 rifle and the 5.56mm NATO round is proof positive of this....

Right on Bros!

Seriously, the weapon isnt as bad as is claimed, it is not the weapons fault if morons cant / remember / want to keep it clean.

Even AK-series weapons can get jammed due wrong handling.. easiest way to do this is:

There is sub zero temp in 'out side'..

You practice (or whatever) all day in 'out side' in the snow with it..

Then you go in to 'heated up tent' where there is +10-15 celsius temp.

Then you go at some point back 'out side'..

Then magazine will freeze and doesnt feed the weapon.. and that is a bitch..

And also the whole mechanims can freeze, but that is easily fixed.. cook the weapon and fire..

It will work again..

But the magazine must be disassembeled..

That is why 'we' learned / were to told after that episode to keep weapons/combat gear (where the mags are) against the wall of the tents (inside still..), so they wont freeze / melt.. (and so generate problems..) and this worked fine.

Fulcrum,

Why bother training for combat in snow? Just let the enemy freeze to death

(JK)

Yeah, right..

This is one reason why i am not all that concerned about NWO reaching Finland anytime soon..

as US (NWO) troopers fear snow, cold and dark (winter), and will most likely to meet their destiny at -30-55 celsius..

Ill just keep going with my comrades

Its a bitch.. but doesnt kill..

(At least when you are at your 'native' in artic circle. )