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U.S. troops using confiscated Iraqi AK-47s

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posted on Aug, 25 2003 @ 01:07 PM
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JAKAMO, i didnt say that as a sniper rifle, i said that it is to be used in SINGLE SHOT MODE, AIMED SHOTS, ACCURATE.. If you fire bursts with it accuracy drops to ZERO %.

AND LIKE I SAID IM AM A MARKSMAN, EXPERT WITH AK TYPE AR, GOT ME A GOLDEN MEDAL TO PROVE. ALL SHOTS TO THE TARGET AT "SHOOTING SKILL TEST", many times. every time i want.



posted on Aug, 25 2003 @ 01:08 PM
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bah,
screw your bullets.
I'll take a pocket full of shells.




posted on Aug, 25 2003 @ 01:12 PM
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I thought the AK had to be modified to fire a single shot? I am pretty sure that when you buy one here in the states you have to modify the firing pin to make it semi/full auto? Can someone clarify please?



posted on Aug, 25 2003 @ 01:16 PM
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Originally posted by Jakomo
Fulcrum/Uninen: WHAT?! Are you some sort of drunken wanna-be military expert?

The AK-47 is for SINGLE SHOT? ?!? It's to be used as a SNIPER RIFLE?! Haha. It's an ASSAULT RIFLE, not a sniper rifle, and it's capable of firing 600 rounds per minute.

If you're going to pretend you know what you're talking, try a little harder.

Real Name - AK-47
Manufacturer(s) - Too many to list
Origin - Russia
Classification - Rifle, Assault
Feed - 10, 30, or 40-round removable magazine
Caliber - 7.62 X 39mm Soviet (.30in)
Rate of Fire - Cyclic, 600 RPM
Fire Mode(s) - Semi-automatic, Automatic
Operation - Gas-operated
Trigger Mechanism - N/A
Weight - 4,300g (9.5 LBS) Unloaded

Show me a SNIPER rifle that can fire 600 rounds a minute. Show me an assualt weapon that has the same effective (EFFECTIVE) range as a sniper rifle. Like the M40A1.

Good luck!

Jakomo


The Automat Kalashnikov - '47 is an assault rifle. Emphasis on the word rifle. Rifles are accurate, and if you switch the AK - 47, or it's later variant, the AK- 74 to semi-automatic, and fit a scope to it, it can be a highly accurate sniper's rifle within 500 metres. That's not to say it was originally intended for this purpose. It just goes to show how flexible the rifle is.



posted on Aug, 25 2003 @ 01:17 PM
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Fulcrum: "JAKAMO, i didnt say that as a sniper rifle, i said that it is to be used in SINGLE SHOT MODE, AIMED SHOTS, ACCURATE.. If you fire bursts with it accuracy drops to ZERO %.

AND LIKE I SAID IM AM A MARKSMAN, EXPERT WITH AK TYPE AR, GOT ME A GOLDEN MEDAL TO PROVE. ALL SHOTS TO THE TARGET AT "SHOOTING SKILL TEST", many times. every time i want."

Buahahaha! We're not talking about a target range, Mr. Marksman. We're talking about wartime.

"Excuse me, Mr. Enemy Soldier, can you hold up there a second so I can get a bead on ya? Much obliged."

The kick from a burst is substantial, but usually you're fighting MULTIPLE troops. Best to spray their line with hot lead then to sit there calmly aiming and then fire. If you can see them enough to get a clear line of fire at them, they have a clear line of fire to you, and that's your funeral.

A burst has a considerably higher accuracy rate than zero percent, too, but I guess you'd know that, what with your "Golden Medal" in Marksmanship or whatever it was. (Where did you get this, by the way)

It's not capable of firing 600 rounds per minute as a little add-on feature. It's the MAIN use for it.

CiderGood_HeadacheBad: Yep, it can be retrofitted to be used as a long-range rifle, but it still pales in comparison to an actual sniper rifle. AK-47's are not meant to be long range singleshot rifles when they roll off the assembly line, they need modifications. Most effective sniper rifles aren't fully automatic or usually even semi.


Jakomo
never got a shooting medal in my life





[Edited on 25-8-2003 by Jakomo]



posted on Aug, 25 2003 @ 01:27 PM
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1. ALL AKs starting with AK-47 have 3 position safety switch:

1.pos: Safe (up)
2.pos: Automatic (middle)
3.pos: Self-loading (down)

2. Got my medal FROM FINNISH ARMY at ATT -> AMPUMA TAITO TESTI -> SHOOTING SKILL TEST.

3. I am SQUAD LEADER. NCO at rank of CORPORAL.

4. Skilled at 7,62 RK 62 (AK TYPE AR..), 7,62 KVKK 62 (7,62mm LMG..), ITKK (12,7x108mm NSV..), 66mm LAW (US LAW M72..) and Hand greanades..

More guestons?


[Edited on 25-8-2003 by FULCRUM]



posted on Aug, 25 2003 @ 01:40 PM
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Btw we trained mostly against targets at range of 150m and the targets were visible only for 3 seconds and only after those target turned (showed themself) could we aim, so some thing like 2-2,5 seconds to aim and fire as the butt stock was on the ground so we must first "raise" the weapon, then aim and shot.. and i did hit every time.. at torso size target. same thing standing 3 second targets, range 50m.. barrel must point to 3m to front of you and only after the target has turned can you raise, aim and fire.. and in the end that 3 seconds felt like 1000 years.. at single shot mode good shooter can put in this time 3 shots at the target.

[Edited on 25-8-2003 by FULCRUM]



posted on Aug, 25 2003 @ 02:05 PM
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I used the AK extensively in the 82nd airborne div.US Army from 1981 to 1984,got a lot of time on one out on the range in orientation
.You are correct,rock and roll full automatic is a waste of ammo,the muzzle rise on an AK is reduced with a spoon compensator.
The AK is a lot like the weapon which I have for personal use now,SW760 9mm semi-auto,functionally more than mechanically,by no means a sniper rifle,good range to 200m if you're lucky,semi-auto rapid fire is even useless because of muzzle rise,nearly impossible to jam,long single row mag so it can't double feed,designed similar to the sten sub-machine gun.
I am surprised that the US troops don't have a weapon short enough for clearing buildings effectively,even an AK is a little long for that with the stock folded.
Guns are fun!!!.



posted on Aug, 25 2003 @ 02:22 PM
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Yes guns are fun..
But for CQB.. i allways thought that M4 carbine is short enough? And us military DELTA TEAM at least, and i would think that other personel also have MP5s at their disposal? And the "new" Benelli M4 shotguns.. why arent those used?

And if M4 carbine is too "long" Israelis have cure for it:

www.isayeret.com...


Sawn Off CAR15 outfitted with an Elbit Falcon Reflex sight.

Ok.. it is a CAR-15, but it is basicly M4.. isnt it?

I dont know about US ARMY by in Finnish defence force in every company/battery, etc we have one gunsmith capable making modifications like these and repairing of "groups" weapons, small arms, cannons, mortars, etc..

And this "Sawning off" seems like good solution.. to me at least..



posted on Aug, 25 2003 @ 02:26 PM
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I like the Idea of using the enemy's own weapons against them. Plus, as it was said earlier, the AK is just a better weapon.



posted on Aug, 25 2003 @ 02:32 PM
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Yeah but; When you need SHORT WEAPON, it is not in out in dusty desert, but in streets and houses of Baghdad.. there these extreme conditions (dust, etc..) arent so much of an hazard..


[Edited on 25-8-2003 by FULCRUM]



posted on Aug, 25 2003 @ 03:29 PM
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Was used by Navy seals in viet nam,proved very reliable and robust,has a quick change barrel too.
The M-4,or sawed off Ar-15 are very sexy,but they are also complicated and expensive,I have learned that simpler ,blowback weapons prove to be more reliable in many cases,also cheaper so I can afford them.
Sw760 $500
AR-15 $1000+
AK-47 $300
I could have bought an AK for less,but ammo was more expensive,9mm is absolutely everywhere and cheap.
Maybe someday we can hook up and terrorise some beer cans.



posted on Aug, 25 2003 @ 04:10 PM
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This "Sw760 9mm" is it infact Swedish Carl Gustav SMG?

www.mst2-vietnam.info...&W_Model_76.htm

Yeah..



posted on Aug, 25 2003 @ 07:29 PM
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For whoever asked about the SW760, yes, it is a domestic version (made by Smith and Wesson), of the Carl Gustav SMG, popularly known as the "Swedish K".

I do not find anything surprising about US GIs taking AKs off of the enemy. My father did so in VietNam, along with half his unit.

The AK is a bulky, somewhat cumbersome weapon, and not exactly blessed with accuracy, but it has one attribute that the AR-15/M-16 seems to be missing... when you load a clip, point it downrange and pull the trigger, it goes BANG, each and every time.

A lot of people like to say that the M-16 is "battle proven".... ummm yeah. I do know that when Jessica Lynches unit was ambushed, by the time it was all over EVERY SINGLE M-16 IN THE UNIT HAD FAILED OR MALFUNCTIONED, AND AT LEAST 3 DIFFERENT SOLDIERS HAD RESORTED TO INDIVIDUALLY LOADING SINGLE ROUNDS INTO THE CHAMBER BECAUSE IT WOULD NOT FEED FROM THE MAGAZINE.

Not exactly a glowing endorsement of the M-16s reliability.

I have had experience with both the AR and AK, and to be frank, Im not all that impressed with either of them, but for different reasons.

For the AR, besides the absolutely horrendous reliability issues (which in my book completely shoots it down from consideration for anything other than a plinker, but then, thats what you get when you design a rifle by committee), the caliber 5.56mm/.223 is next to worthless in my opinion. It is nothing more than a little .22 bullet that gets all its magic from its extremely high muzzle velocity. There is not enough bullet weight or sectional density to decidedly settle a serious situation, it lacks penetration, and is easily deflected by any possible obstructions.

Also, considering that the high muzzle velocity is the ONLY hope the 5.56mm has, consider that the newest fad in the AR family are the new shorty carbines, epitomized by the M4 carbine with a 14" barrel. What a lot of people dont understand is that when you chop that much barrel off, you are dropping your muzzle velocity to the point that you are now shooting the equivalent of a .22 Hornet, just a step above the .22 rimfire magnum. Do you want to trust you life to a rimfire pistol round?

(If any wish to dispute this, I will be more than happy to quote ballistics facts to back this assertion up)

The AK has 2 major advantages over the AR... it works, flawlessly (so, 100% preference in my mind over the AR), and, although its not exactly a true powerhouse, it does have a good bit more impact energy than the 5.56mm. However, (and I say this from personal experience) the AK is not a particularly accurate weapon. For the average military marksmen (ok, biting my tongue here), it will generate hits on a man sized target to 100 meters, and if you have a true Rifleman, with an above average grade AK, you can probably extend that effective range to 200 meters or so.

In terms of rifle performance, that is lackluster accuracy to be sure, but its still 2 steps above the AR!

For my money, I prefer a REAL rifle:






For the same weight as an AK, I can get 2.5x the impact energy and penetration, and about 3x the effective range....

My advice, get a real gun...



posted on Aug, 25 2003 @ 07:34 PM
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When I went through Combat Training I made it a habit to keep my rifle out of the dirt. But when your doing squad rushes through sand it;s basically impossible to keep the damn thing away from the sand. It would jam on me on every run, even after I cleaned it 3 or 4 times a day. If it would jam that much in a contained enviorment, i can't imagine dealing with it in battle. I would want a weapon I could rely on, dirty or clean.. to get me out alive. It's a beautiful weapon when it works... but who knows, maybe I was just issued a screwed up rifle. b



posted on Aug, 25 2003 @ 07:38 PM
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Grunt Ignited,

I hate to say it, I dont think that you were issued a particularly screwed up rifle... sounds like most ARs I have had experience with.

I took the Urban Tactical Rifle Course at Thunder Ranch: the rifles present were an M1A (M14), M1 Carbine, 2 AKs, and 8 AR clones. During the course, EVERY AR malfunctioned at least once a day every day. The M1A, M1 carbine, and both AKs didnt burp once.

One of the guys in the class with an AR had brought a friends, saying he was going to wait till after the class to buy his own, and then decide what bells and whistles he would need, based on what he learned in the class. After seeing what happened with the AR, and seeing what happened with everyone elses... he went and bought an AK.



posted on Aug, 25 2003 @ 07:55 PM
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Have no fear though.
The US is currently going to a couple new designs:

XM-8:
world.guns.ru...



XM-29 SABR/OICW Assault Rifle:
world.guns.ru...



regards
seekerof



posted on Aug, 25 2003 @ 07:56 PM
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Hey, not only will the US military now have guns that dont work well, they'll have guns that dont work well, that look cool, and will bankrupt the military!



posted on Aug, 25 2003 @ 08:00 PM
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Well.. my "AK":


Not a pure Kalashnikov.. but a Valmet/Sako rifle..

"In general, all Sako / Valmet Rk.62 family weapons are first class quality firearms that designed to withstand extreme environmental conditions of the Nordic Europe. It is also should be noted that early Israeli made Galil assault rifles were made on macinery and by documentation, bought from Valmet."

Quote from:

world.guns.ru...


[Edited on 26-8-2003 by FULCRUM]



posted on Aug, 25 2003 @ 08:02 PM
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Seekerof..

OICW aint going to help as its "rifle module" is still 100% M-16 series..




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