We MUST win the war

I sincerely think the time to be anti-war has come and gone. It's apparent by the divisions that most in America do not understand the concept of war and what it entails.

Put it simply, war MUST BE WON. Whether the war is moral or immoral, whether it was based on truth or lies, war must be won. To lose or withdraw from a war is the most disasterous thing a country can endure. We do not need that and we CANNOT have that.

We're staying in Iraq, and we'll stay there until we win the war. Then we can start over again, hopefully with new leadership and a new vision.

Wow!

Where did THAT come from? That is a bit if a change from your former position. If you don't mind me asking, why the change?

We're staying in Iraq, and we'll stay there until we win the war. Then we can start over again, hopefully with new leadership and a new vision.

Then you will be there forever. America can't 'win' this war. The people of Iraq will always fight the invaders of their country, as anyone would. I dont understand why you think the states can win this war. Imagine if Iraq invaded the U.S. for weapons of mass destruction, exactly like what america did to them. The people of america would fight their invaders by any means necessary untill they leave. Iraqis don't want someone else telling them how to run their country, its ridiculous that you think you have the right to stay somewhere your not welcome.

The question is, what war exactly? We aren't in any wars.

Are you referring to the "War in Iraq" or the "War on Terror"?

Either one is a misnomer. The War in Iraq lasted about week, it's now an occupation entailing a prolonged counterinsurgency operation. You can't "win" an occupation. Likewise, the War on Terror is just a name given to a policy of preemption and aggresive pursuit of (some) terrorists. It is, of course, unwinnable... terror has been with us since almost as far back as recorded history and it will be around for a long time to come.

While I would like to see us succeed in reducing terror and making Iraq safer, these are matters of degree, for which differences in opinion are essential in finding the best strategies. There is no clear cut win or lose scenario for either.

I was anti-war before the war in Iraq and I was opposed to the policies which constitute the "war on terror." Not because either had goals I didn't wish to see, but because I think both were severely bungled by the politicians, increasing global terrorism and instability rather than decreasing it. Only when enough people see this will we force our leaders to change tactics, and maybe improve the situation. But we'll never "win" what can't be won by definition. Perhaps this generation needed a new example, and America a new Vietnam syndrome. The cost was terrible, but if we had to "try out" preemption, better to be mired in Iraq than mired in Syria, Iran, and North Korea simultaneously.

Besides, how exactly is failure to march in lock-step with the neocons hurting the war in Iraq? They aren't listening anyway.

-koji K.

sweatmonicaIdo, just so Im sure we are on the same page here,
you are talking about the U.S. led war in Iraq, is that correct?

I agree with you....

but...

why do you think this?

I'm also curious about your change of heart about the Iraq war.
I thought you were opposed to it.

I also thought you were Korean for some reason
I guess I had you confused with someone else.

Originally posted by The Dreaded One

Then you will be there forever. America can't 'win' this war. The people of Iraq will always fight the invaders of their country, as anyone would. I dont understand why you think the states can win this war. Imagine if Iraq invaded the U.S. for weapons of mass destruction, exactly like what america did to them. The people of america would fight their invaders by any means necessary untill they leave. Iraqis don't want someone else telling them how to run their country, its ridiculous that you think you have the right to stay somewhere your not welcome.

Your description of the situation in Iraq bears absolutely no resemblance to the actual situation there today, Dreaded One. America liberated Iraq from an oppressive, violent and destabilizing regime and is assisting Iraqis in forming their own democratic nation. The insurgents don't want democracy and they are killing Iraqis with as much glee as they are killing Americans. How many nations' citizens so willingly give of themselves to guarantee the freedom of people all over the world? Not very many and America has a long history of such action.

[edit on 2005/7/26 by GradyPhilpott]

1. This is not a war, it's a fake altercation with an abstract noun. There is already an elected government (sort of) in Iraq and the incumbent POTUS announced when major conflict was concluded with the overthrow of the Hussein regime.

2. The spoils of the major conflict are now being divided amongst the cartels behind closed doors, away from the Iraq and domestic US "fronts". You have yet to see the industrial impact that the Iraqi General Union Of Oil Employees is likely to have.

3. There is no war to be won except in your own mind, that is the battleground. And if you need to win over the minds of the parents of future suicide bombers, then that will not be won over with a mentality of war, quite the opposite.

www.atsnn.com...

Topics like this are the tip of the iceberg, just an indicator of the insanity that pervades when the populace of a whole nation is perpetually put through the propaganda mill and a continuing and continuous litany of lies.

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
I sincerely think the time to be anti-war has come and gone. It's apparent by the divisions that most in America do not understand the concept of war and what it entails.

Put it simply, war MUST BE WON. Whether the war is moral or immoral, whether it was based on truth or lies, war must be won. To lose or withdraw from a war is the most disasterous thing a country can endure. We do not need that and we CANNOT have that.

We're staying in Iraq, and we'll stay there until we win the war. Then we can start over again, hopefully with new leadership and a new vision.

I sincerely believe that is insane.

If a war is immoral, and built on lies, then people are dying for something immoral built on lies. But you say keep on killing anyway, because winning is what's important?

Oh yes, ok. The killing is what's important here, not what we're fighting for. That's on the backburner now. And we all remember Vietnam: pull out after years of long combat, and look how bad things were for us! ....not very. o.O

How many nations' citizens so willingly give of themselves to guarantee the freedom of people all over the world. Not very many and America has a long history of such action.

Actually, since our invasion, the chances of an Iraqi dying a violent death are about 50 times greater according to a study published by the BBC. No evidence of Saddam killing any of his own people since the al Anfar campaign, and that was back before Persian Gulf. So yeah, wow. We're really helping the Iraqi people. x.x

men in black and SportyMB,

Believe it, there has never been a change. My opposition to the Iraq War ended the day we invaded Iraq.

The way I see it, I'm not in charge, Mr. Bush is, and if we want our country to survive his mistakes, we must win the war. Losing the war will make his mistakes hurt even more.

At least this way, we can say, "You had your fun. Let's not do this ever again."

Originally posted by AceOfBase
I'm also curious about your change of heart about the Iraq war.
I thought you were opposed to it.

I also thought you were Korean for some reason

I guess I had you confused with someone else.

Yes I am Korean, and no, there has been no change of heart. My opposition ended when the war began. Am I enjoying this war like many other proponents are? No. But America's my country, and at this point, the terrorists can do whatever they want. I just want our country to survive.

Once we survive, we can start over again and maybe things will go better that time.

I personally don't see an end to this Iraq problem. Especially after Abu Graib...disgusting really. Im usually a pretty optimistic person, but hearing our leaders say stuff like, "oh the war is going fine and were gaining ground",following a news report that 40 people just got blown up doesn't sit to well with me. One question i have is in our next presidential elections will the running candidate run on a full pullout of american troops? If i did vote i think ide vote for that person.

Originally posted by bsbray11
If a war is immoral, and built on lies, then people are dying for something immoral built on lies. But you say keep on killing anyway, because winning is what's important?

Yes, winning is what's important. To survive, a country must be the toughest SOB out there. I'm not saying let's invade every country, but as far as the problems we have currently, we must be the ones who emerge victorious. "Turning the other cheek" is what the loser does.

Your description of the situation in Iraq bears absolutely no resemblance to the actual situation there today, Dreaded One. America liberated Iraq from an oppressive, violent and destabilizing regime and is assisting Iraqis in forming their own democratic nation. The insurgents don't want democracy and they are killing Iraqis with as much glee as they are killing Americans. How many nations' citizens so willingly give of themselves to guarantee the freedom of people all over the world? Not very many and America has a long history of such action.

America are the ones who put Saddam in power, just as they have done countless times in countless other countries. There will never be a war on terror in Chile but the situation is more or less the same as Iraq was. The U.S. does not have the right to police the world. Democracy is not the 'right' system, it is not the morraly justified way to run the world. Their are immensley powereful, peaceful ways to make political change in the world my brother. Let the people of Iraq choose how they want their country to be run, by themselves. Instead of contracting out the business oportunities in rebuilding the nation to U.S. company's, give them to new flourishing Iraqi ones. It is their country not ours.

[edit on 26-7-2005 by The Dreaded One]

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
We're staying in Iraq, and we'll stay there until we win the war. Then we can start over again, hopefully with new leadership and a new vision.

With that comment, I certainly hope you are one of two things:
[1] Combat Veteran
[2] Enroute to Basic Training

Misfit

Whats this WE sweatmonicaido. Are you posting from Iraq. Yeah its sure easy to to support a war when others are doing the fighting and dieing for you.
If this war is so important for you to win, I hear Halliburton and the other contractors are hireing and paying quite well I might add; Of course the military is also an option.

Remember young Americans are being killed as we type our post in front of our computers, nice and safe at home.

I personally don't give a damn about the Iraq people. If they want freedom and democracy why didn't they revolt against tyranny like other oppressed people. The individuals that want to bring freedom to the world should be doing it not sending others. Now if it's about oil; thats a different story.

[edit on 26-7-2005 by whaaa]

[edit on 26-7-2005 by whaaa]

If we win it will depend on the west to make the discistion to destroy all radical muslems!!!

Originally posted by Military 1
If we win it will depend on the west to make the discistion to destroy all radical muslems!!!

The U.S and all of it's friends have enough fire-power and high numbers of special forces, we just have to take the gloves off and wipe out all radical muslems. It's the only way to win!

Originally posted by Military 1

Originally posted by Military 1
If we win it will depend on the west to make the discistion to destroy all radical muslems!!!

The U.S and all of it's friends have enough fire-power and high numbers of special forces, we just have to take the gloves off and wipe out all radical muslems. It's the only way to win!

Iraq is not the war I was talking about ! If the U.S didn't go into Iraq and put forth all that money and man power fighting Global terrorisim, this would be more effective at making America safe.

Originally posted by whaaa
Whats this WE sweatmonicaido. Are you posting from Iraq. Yeah its sure easy to to support a war when others are doing the fighting and dieing for you.
If this war is so important for you to win, I hear Halliburton and the other contractors are hireing and paying quite well I might add; Of course the military is also an option.

Remember young Americans are being killed as we type our post in front of our computers, nice and safe at home.

What do you think would happen if we withdrew from Iraq? Today? What do you think would result?

It's unfortunate, but once you're in a deep hole, it's no use trying to get out. You might as well, dig to your left and right and see if that does the trick.

If it gives you any comfort, when we win the war, at least we'd have every right to tell Bush to go to Hell.