Man killed in London subway not involved in attacks, police say

BBC: news.bbc.co.uk...

When shooting a Suicide Bomber:

BBC quoted Roy Ramm, former Met Police specialist operations commander, as saying,

"The fact is that when you're dealing with suicide bombers they only way you can stop them effectively - and protect yourself - is to try for a head-shot," he said.

Former government intelligence analyst Crispin Black agreed there was no other way of stopping someone who was an "immediate threat to life".

Who shot this man?

Professor Michael Clarke, professor of defence studies at King's College London, said the officers who carried out the operation in south London were unlikely to be police.

"The fact that he was shot in this way strongly suggests that it was someone the authorities knew and suspected he was carrying explosives on him.

He added: "You don't shoot somebody five times if you think you might have made a mistake and may be able to arrest him."

Prof Clarke said police officers were not trained to carry out operations in this way.

"Even Special Branch and SO19 (Scotland Yard's armed unit) are not trained to do this sort of thing.

"It's plausible that they were special forces or elements of special forces."

No way this was an innocent Police shooting a suspected Suicide Bomber, nice excuse thou for what ever reason they really had.

Originally posted by GlobalDisorder
SAS killing squads..
why would it be plastered all over the media? why such a public murder of someone if there was something to hide?

Honestly, he was a forienger looking suspicously like a suicide bomber, which magically london has been hit by 2 WAVES worth of now..

really i think u'll find its nothing

What are you talking about man? This is no conspiracy. SAS have done this before. Why would it be plaastered all over the media? Maybe it has something to do with it being done in full view of a packed train carriage?

The SAS have followed and killed IRA terrorists in public before. What makes you think they wouldnt do it again? How hard for you is that to fathom?

Operation Flavius

And guess what, they were wrong back then too.

is it national freaking idiot day on ats???

"quote from sand_man"

This is murder plain and simple. IMO this is going to cause even more terror attacks. I hope the police in question are charged with murder and do not hide behind " This is just the price we have to pay to conquer terrorism".
I dont know what would scare me more muslim extremists or the british police....."end quote"

ok mate.....yeah..its sad this guys been shot dead, condolances to his family and friends but lets just get a few things straight.....

the guy runs when told "stop armed police".......?.....your telling me this guys oblivious to whats been happening in London for the past 2 weeks?

police charged with murder?......keep your stupid idiotic comments to your self...for a start your in Australlia....you havent just seen the capital of your country devestated by horrific, cowardly suicide bombers...if youd lost family and friends in incidents in the past few weeks you would think differentley.....

put yourself in the situation....your family is wiped out because police decide to make a split second decision to allow afore mentioned brazillian guy to enter the tube train and press the button.........he acted in a way totally similar to the recent suicide bombers......he got put down after being told stop repeatedley........gets shot in the head???....GOOD!!!......if they had simply shot him in the chest ,arm's, leg's ....where ever???...he could have still activated the bomb.

so sadly he wasnt a bomber....but this guy was guilty of failing to stop when ordered by a police officer in a time when tensions are running the highest ever......the needs of the many far out way the needs of the few.

my heart goes out to the officers that made that awful decision.....and i admire their bravery and am grateful for their acts of self lessness.

TextThe Police committed a public murder. . . .that is terrorism

oh for christs sake.......get of your high and mighty soap box Roy Robinson....human instinct is to survive.....all these comments here are pretty much pathetic.....stop looking into the gold fish bowl and see the reallity of the situation!!!......

its about time the police in the UK started laying down stricter law inforcement...and i believe this has to come from the power of the gun....hopefully terrorists that have seen the uk's unarmed population and police will now think differentley about us being an easy target.

Hitler was a terrorist of the highest order, good job we didnt all adopt your attitude when it came to dealing with the SS's persecution of the Jews.

When they catch the suicide bombers that there looking for.....shoot them in the head on prime time tv.....if you want a peace loving world as i do with no violence and terror wipe out its perpitrators.

the people i really feel for at the moment are the muslim communittys facing reprisals in the UK.


[edit on 24-7-2005 by optimus fett]

[edit on 24-7-2005 by optimus fett]

Sand Man - you really take the biscuit. Thank God your country has the proper immigration controls in place to prevent the lunatics from taking over your asylum!

What would you think if some cops - say from the great city of Perth - chased, caught and shot a suspected terrorist - in order to protect the Australian public?

Would you still be shouting 'Murderer!, Murderer!' at the top of your voice or should you be quietly saying, 'Cheers mate!'

As to those of you who strongly suggest this shooting was an act of barbarism by 'special' SAS killer squads - WRONG! In my experience, the SAS only target individuals who they know are terrorists or 'players' and on at least three ocaisions, they have operated in this manner, to the benefit of the local populace!

Many papers carried the pics of the two policemen carrying weapons 'that are issued to the SAS!'

What utter rubbish! Many county police forces throughout the country have been armed with these reliable weapons. The weapons in question, are the 5.56mm H&K G36C, a machine-pistole or 'short' carbine and the rifle is the H&K MSG90A1 - a bog standard 7.62mm rifle with what appears to be a 'specialist' sniper scope attached.

So please guys and gals - stop all this rubbish about 'murder'. The guy ran when challenged, despite repeated warnings. That warnings were repeatedly shouted - is a given.

Unfortunately, he paid the price. It's not right, in an ideal world, but there will always be casualties or, as the Yanks say, collateral damage.

In fact, in todays edition of the 'Mail On Sunday' (c) [Page 4 - sub headline] Quote: 'Victim left wrong flat, in wrong coat, at the wrong time' End Quote.

Could this have been a deliberate ploy by the terrorists who may have suspected a 'tail'? Could the terrorists have set this guy up and escaped?

My guess to that is simply YES!

Hey.

Any chance we can cut out the insults please?

You can get a message across without resorting to playground tactics.

Optimus - I'm a Brit. I did actually watch in horror as the capital of my country was waylaid by terrorists.

You know what?

I agree with a lot of what's already been said. This should not have happened - and something tells me that had it been your cousin or brother who was the victim, you'd perhaps be telling a different story. Either way though, just because A Poster doesn't live in the country of topic doesn't mean s/he doesn't have the right to an opinion, or indeed, a right to support or criticise the actions involved therein.

Then again, it's easy to sit on the sidelines and commentate in either direction - the reality is, none of us will ever know what was going through the mind of the victim, or the shooter.

It still shouldn't have happened though - and blaming the victim might well be falling down a very slippery slope.

Cargo, I know the guy who led that op, personally. Whilst he has never given [me] specifics, he has talked in general terms.

As I said in my last reply, the SAS operate to extremely strict guidlines and only use 'lethal' force when it is considered that 'not to do so, would endanger their own life, the lives of their comrades or the lives of innocent bystanders!'

In reply to queries about the number of shots fired, I myself have taught Close Quarter Battle shooting in and on various ranges dotted about the country. I have taught both military and civilians to shoot at all types of targets - Static, Running [moving] and Timed Exposures - including hostage tgts.

The one thing I always taught was 'double tap the chest and single round to the head!' Why? I'll try to explain.

If you double tap somebody in the chest the heart, although still destroyed, will NOT stop somebody carrying out a 'final dying act' whether by explosive means or otherwise.

By double tapping the chest [heart] you try to disrupt bloodflow to the brain. The brain still receives oxygen [for a couple of seconds] even if the heart is not beating.

The single round to the head [aimed either at the mouth or the bridge of the nose] is sufficient to rupture the brain stem and cause immediate brain death. Forget Hollywood's single round to the forehead. It does not work!