Pope issue’s Fatwa on J. K. Rowling for Harry Potter book…

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft

You people are so anti-Catholic that the church and its leaders are basically not entitled to their own opinions?

[Snip]

My opinion, as all others "clucking" here, will carry nil of actions.
The Pope, the Church, however, carry great power. They don't need dictate any action, simply their opinion of a subject often has far reaching great impact.

Misfit

[ Edit = I need typing lessons! ]


[edit on 13-7-2005 by Misfit]

But I don't see any of you holding up other churches/relgions to the same standard.

I haven't seen any soul-searching regarding the racism inherent in Hinduism. (Maybe I ought to start a thread on the Vishva Hindu Parishad . . .)

Or for that matter, any discussions on the use of Stonehenge (UK state property) by "druids" on the Summer solstice, when it is not in fact a keltic monument.

If you were honest, you'd admit that the Pope will never satisfy you until he dissolves his Church and donates all the proceeds to MoveOn.org.

Even though I disagree with his taste in books and baroque ceremones, I don't hold it against him that he is in error.

's kind of funny really. Reminds me of the housewives mumbling over their morning coffee about those "dreadful 'ippies" in a Monty Python skit. Everybody agrees their horrid, and says "tut, tut." But that's about it.

Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander
I find it ironic and humorous that the head of an organization that worships a book of fantasy is judging another book of fantasy as "subtle seductions, which act unnoticed and by this deeply distort Christianity in the soul" and therefore must be evil.

A kid reading Harry is enjoying a mythical fantasy world no different than any other fantasy book, which included that grand fantasy of them all - Jesus Potter and the Holy Scripture.

I think that's a pretty ignorant remark. Did you ever consider for a moment how many Christians, such as myself, are loyal ATS members? Would you like it if someone openly mocked and called "fantasy" something which you believed in with all your heart, mind and soul?

You're entitled to your opinions. I suppose you're also entitled to have no class. What I see as fantasy, especially after reading your post, is any requirements of couth when ATS appoints Moderators.

You have voted Rasputin13 for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

Edit: cannot vote again for this member.

You have already voted for Rasputin13 this month.

[edit on 13-7-2005 by dr_strangecraft]

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft

But I don't see any of you holding up other churches/relgions to the same standard.

I venture to say this is due to the fact the Catholic church is by far the most powerful, you simply can't disagree on that.

Second venture - the Catholic church is one church, not many churches as in the states ........ they can't agree which paths to preach, let alone conglomerate to give a stance on anything.

If you were honest, you'd admit that the Pope will never satisfy you until he dissolves his Church and donates all the proceeds to MoveOn.org.

Please don't attemp to put words in my mouth, you don't know what I think.
I simply look for the many results possible of an opinion by anyone capable of change via that opinion - can't just look at the today.

Stonehenge

[snip]

Stonehenge? You'll have to elaborate on that concept towards a correlation to this.

Misfit

seems pretty obvious the point Mr. skippy was making was a comparison of the evil evil fatwa issuers of the Muslim faith to the greatly civil pope of the christian faith. *sigh*

On a side note, the following might be of interest to some members of ATS. In Islam, the first authoritative source is the Koran. If the answer to a certain problem is not found there, then the Hadith (sunnah) are consulted, together with the general consensus among the Muslim clerics. If a suitable answer is still not found, then analogy to previous incidences which might be analogous to current situation are used.
This from my limited understanding of Islamic law.

A Fatwa is issued by a specific cleric on a situation upon request. Fatwa's by different clerics on the same issue might be different.

To best of my knowledge this is very different from the catholic faith, where the Pope is the be all and end all. Therefore it makes little sense to say the pope issued a fatwa since a fatwa can be challenged and is even different on the same issue by different, equally respected clerics.

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft

But I don't see any of you holding up other churches/relgions to the same standard.

I haven't seen any soul-searching regarding the racism inherent in Hinduism. (Maybe I ought to start a thread on the Vishva Hindu Parishad . . .)

Maybe you should...As far as I can tell, most of us would like to hear about a movement by a people designed to pull themselves out of the ditch they've been stuck in for centuries. It also is designed to reduce & eventually eliminate the caste system which has prevented so many Hindis from realising any kind of a decent life. It claims to promote equality. Perhaps the terrible thing is that it sees organised Christianity as a negative influence, and promotes re-embracing the Hindu faith? As far as racism goes, it only mentions the Aryan people, but, after all, that's their main priority...themselves. I've never seen a statement of doctrine which denigrates other races, or denies them access to the Hindu faith, in the documentation for the Vishva Hindu Parishad . If you have, please post it. (No, I'm not a Hindu)

Or for that matter, any discussions on the use of Stonehenge (UK state property) by "druids" on the Summer solstice, when it is not in fact a keltic monument.

After 65 years or so of being managed by departments of the government, in 1984 Stonehenge was placed under the control of English Heritage, a quasi-independent agency established by Parliament with responsibility for looking after ancient sites in England. The Summer Solstice celebration is more of a national heritage thing. A tree isn't a Celtic monument either.

Even though I disagree with his taste in books and baroque ceremones, I don't hold it against him that he is in error.

He is the leader of a major religious organisation. His word will carry much more weight, and therefore influence (either rightly or wrongly) a scatload more people than you or I (most likely) ever will.


Yours in Truth

Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZoranderA kid reading Harry is enjoying a mythical fantasy world no different than any other fantasy book, which included that grand fantasy of them all - Jesus Potter and the Holy Scripture.

I think there is more irony in your words than you may know; Jesus Potter, as in making man from clay. Now I understand why Barabbas, er what's his name? Benedict (same thing) wants to silence the fictional accounts of Harry Potter, Christianity has only four books attributed to its clay-maker, Harrinists now have 6, and both characters are based on intrigue, deception and magic.

[edit on 7/13/05 by SomewhereinBetween]

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
You people are so anti-Catholic that the church and its leaders are basically not entitled to their own opinions?

I apologize for the confusion. I'm not so much anti-Catholic as I am anti-organized religion. I do have negative judgments about organized religion and that's why I don't have one of my very own.

I do respect the right of others to have and practice and say wonderful things about their religion if they choose.

If you were honest, you'd admit that the Pope will never satisfy you until he dissolves his Church and donates all the proceeds to MoveOn.org.

Uhh... No, not by a long shot. Your assumptions are so far off, it's really quite amazing.

moving to Global News Discussion

Please continue the discussion there..

maybe we should all go out and burn some witches?

If he thinks the books are a problem why can't he make a pronouncement on them?

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
It appears that the Pope would rather have the formative
soul of children impressed with Catholic dogma ...

Uh ... I would hope so, it's his JOB to encourage the
Catholic faith while pointing out things that he believes
are in opposition to it.

And frankly this isn't news. The Catholic Church hasn't issued
anything 'official' about Harry Potter, however people within
the church are free to express their views on it. So you don't
like what the Pope says? Find out why he says what he does
and you may actually agree with him. If you don't, then move
on. Freedom of speech, and freedom of religion. If you don't
like it ... go elsewhere.





[edit on 7/14/2005 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by victor was right
if pope benedict is so confident of his own infallability why
doesn't the man author his OWN book, aimed chiefly at these
young people, extolling the virtues of the catholic faith and
the importance of shunning heretical influences?

www.aquinasandmore.com...

He has written about the virtues of the Catholic faith and
the importance of shunning heretical influences.

28 books written by Cardinal Ratzinger. His particular charism
hasn't been towards the youth specifically. The Holy Spirit has
inspired him to write more about the Catholic Truths and about
women in the church. However, if the Holy Spirit deems it
necessary in the future for him to write to the youth, then
Ratzinger will of course say 'Yes' and write. However, considering
his age and his health .. I doubt he will be pope for a long period
of time.

Now .. about that infalibility comment. You do realize that the
pope isn't infallible and that the Catholic faith doesn't say that he
is... right? You do realize that in matters of theology when he
makes a decree EX CATHREDA from the chair of St. Peter, THAT
is what is deemed infalible by the church ... not the man himself ...
just the few EX CATHREDA theology announcements that happen.
PJPII went to confession a few times a week, so does Pope Benedict.
They in no way consider themselves to be infallible and neither does
the church.

When you feel that your beliefs are threatened by a book designed to be read by ten year olds, it might just be about time to revaluate the situation.

Originally posted by Jonna
When you feel that your beliefs are threatened by a book designed to be read by ten year olds, it might just be about time to revaluate the situation.

Well, Jonna, I know what you mean.

Here's a book that threatens some of MY beliefs:

www.calvin.edu...

It's a Book called "Der Giftpilz" (The poison mushroom), published in Nuremberg, by Stürmerverlag in 1938.

Chapter 1 appears to bear the Title "How to Spot a Jew"

My point here is that, while I don't agree with the then-cardinal's assessment of the Harry Potter books, I do believe it is possible for books "designed for 10-year olds" to carry ominous messages.

I was looking for some PLO comix that I saw in the west bank, but cannot find them on-line.

If you mean that Ratzinger is a narrow-minded fanatic, then the mere fact that he criticizes a children's book doesn't prove your point.

Originally posted by skippytjc
When has a representative of the Catholic Church, or any faith for that matter, demanded the head of somebody they dissagreed with?

Please do not be clever on the boards. Its unfair to the rest of us.