Avro Arrow '09

I heard about this as a small boy from an older relative of mine 25 years ago. My memory is horrible but I still remember the conversation because it seemed a traumatic event almost like a family member had died. I was told we had designed an aircraft that could fly into outerspace. The greatest achievement of our countries history and that the americans heard about it and walked in and stole it. I remember the look of disbelief and defeat like our country would never recover. Being too young to understand what I was being told I remember wondering why I was the one being told this and not the adults in my family. I was never told to keep it a secret but I had the feeling not to talk about it an it was never brought up again. I had looked into the avro in my teens and read the articles on what happened to the arrow and just assumed what I read was true and never really thought about it again. I spent a few years in University and never questioned anything I saw on the news or read in text books. I was the opposite of a conspiracy person until I watched Tower 7 collapse in 2007 never even hearing about it before that moment, my blood ran cold because the wall that protected me from what was really going on came down as fast as that building did and it scared the living # out of me because I knew there was no turning back. I felt the same chill when I read the scientists from the arrow ended up at NASA in the apollo program. I haven't had a chance to research this and it may be just coincidence but if any Canadians were involved in going to the moon we should share some of the credit.
PS- I would like to add that I am pro-American like 99% of Canadians. Just because we don't agree with you on every level doesn't mean we are the enemy. Your government has made bad decisions and we have bitched about it because we will be the ones standing there with you at the end for those decisions. We are family, brothers, and if # hits the fan we will be there no matter what, so we have a right to have our say. If you think Canadians are pusssies you haven't looked at your history. We were fighting and dying in WWII before you. Just because we didnt' fight in Vietnam and Iraq you forget the past (WW1, WW2) and the present (Afghanistan). Our friends and family have fought and died together and you seem to have forgotten that. Just because we don't say anything when you bad mouth us doesn't mean it doesn't hurt.

[edit on 16-9-2009 by Lloydstarr]

Whoa.. old thread.

Originally posted by Lloydstarr
I heard about this as a small boy from an older relative of mine 25 years ago. My memory is horrible but I still remember the conversation because it seemed a traumatic event almost like a family member had died. I was told we had designed an aircraft that could fly into outerspace.

Well the Arrow couldn't go into space. I'm not sure what the max altitude was (over 50,000 feet is all I know). I've read that they were planning or hoping to break some speed and altitude records with the first Arrow Mk 2, but the program was cancelled before they could finish building it and make an attempt.

I felt the same chill when I read the scientists from the arrow ended up at NASA in the apollo program.

Yeah, there was a big "brain drain" after the cancellation and many of the engineers went down south. Jim Chamberlin being one of the more notable ones. He and a team of 32 Avro engineers and technicians joined the NASA Space Task Group. He was head of engineering on Project Mercury, a designer and project manager for the Gemini spacecraft and he was also heavily involved in the design of the Lunar Module.

Some other notable names in this link

In all of this nobody mentioned why the arrow was really cancelled.
The kgb had infiltrated the avro company and the arrow project was cancelled for security reasons.
The arrow mkII designs showed up a few years later as the mig 25

Originally posted by punkinworks
The kgb had infiltrated the avro company and the arrow project was cancelled for security reasons.

That makes no sense to me. Why would you scrap an expensive project for security reasons? Wouldn't it be better and more cost effective to just tighten security were that the case?

The arrow mkII designs showed up a few years later as the mig 25

They look nothing alike...