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The Spiriton

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posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 02:35 PM
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Hello there. I am going to propose a new theory, and a new particle.

First, let me give you the basics of my idea, as simple as I can explain.

Gauge forces and matter are confined to our three dimensional world that we live in. Of course there is also time and the possibility of extra spatial dimensions with string theory.

Now something eludes this principle. The graviton. Gravity propagates freely in all dimensions.

Now lets take our universe and take an estimated look at it.

The three dimensional world (again time and the possibility of more, but I will use three to keep it simple) that we live in is confined to many laws of physics.

Now think of a "God" or higher source, as being like that of the graviton. The "God" (I will use the term God from now on) is capable of control over all dimensions.

The workings of God do not have to follow the rules of our dimensions.

Now imagine that there is a "heaven", which essentially is a higher dimension that does not contain the same gauge forces and matter that we have in our dimensions. Forces such as gravity are allowed to exist, and the "God" energy that is allowed in all dimensions.

Now I am not the only person to believe the God dimensions and of course the theory of gravitons, etc.

This is where my new theory comes in. Forgive me if anyone has said anything similar to this before.

Alot of people tend to believe in a soul, or spirit etc. But according to our mass, we cannot exit our three dimensional universe.

The only way that we could achieve "access" to "heaven" would be in a way that we contain characteristics of a particle like the graviton.

So what if life contains a single particle, wave, etc like a graviton, capable of any dimension.

I call it the spiriton, for lack of a better name.


Could the soul be another particle of physics?





posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 04:36 PM
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Caution!

Religion and particle physics do not mix....

First off, the graviton is based on the theory of particle interactions, which is based in quantum theory. While the theory is incredibly sound and fairly fullproof, it isnt to be trusted completely.

Secondly, you assume god and heaven exist, which has a whole list of issues to go along with it.

Thirdly, if such a thing existed, wouldnt it be obviously detectable. Wouldnt science have its own description of this and its effects? It does for every other particle.

Before you try and justify the technicalities of heaven and God, one must answer the more basic questions, like my personal favorite:

"If you are a morally good person, but dont believe in Jesus, does that mean the other 4 billion people are going directly to hell?"

Etc.



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 04:52 PM
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I didnt say I was religous myself.


Notice I used " " marks around the "iffy" terms of God, Heaven, etc.

As for detecting the "spiriton"... well we have yet to detect gravitons, but gravity exists.

A "spiriton" as it may be, could also explain the possibility of "aliens" being able to defy physics as they are not held to our dimensions.



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 04:54 PM
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Gravity is an obvious effect in our world, and although we have not "found" its particle, if it exists, we know the laws of gravity very well.

Spiriton implies the existance of a soul, which has not, and cannot be measured by any method of science, and therefore has nothing to imply its existance other than the wishful thinking of people.



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 05:32 PM
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Okay, can I try my theory?

There's a Grand Unified Theory (to come later) that explains things. Religion is wrong; God is irrelevant.


I don't see the jump from "Gravity is weird" to "There's a 'God' force-like thingy through spiritons." It seems like you try to limply justify a "spiriton" which in turn justifies everything else that we can't yet justify. (possibly) It's the same argument as religion gives (God made it that way, Spiritons make it that way) if I'm reading properly.



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 05:40 PM
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Nobody seems to realise that the graviton, or gravity, goes throughout all dimensions while other forces do not.

We cannot see the graviton, yet gravity exists.

If there was a M-Theory, on everything, it points more in the direction that a God does actually exist and could be detected. If we can detect gravitons (in the future) we will be able to see into the other dimensions like we have never done before.

Basically what im saying is that if a graviton can exist in multiple dimensions, while forces in ours are limited, what else exists in the other dimensions?


As for this comment





Spiriton implies the existance of a soul, which has not, and cannot be measured by any method of science, and therefore has nothing to imply its existance other than the wishful thinking of people.


Is string theory not wishful thinking at this point then?

The very existence of a force that can occur in multiple dimensions while others cannot is something to think about.



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 05:45 PM
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String theory has a good portion of "wishful thinking" and is not only vastly reliant on variables and chance events, but also varries from physicist to physicist.....so I dont really believe it to be correct, though it has some good basis, being particle theory.



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 05:49 PM
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The way I see it, the ONLY way an "afterlife" can occur is that we have to contain "spiritons" or a particle that can occur in multiple dimensions.

Do you see where I am going with this?

In our dimensions, its obvious there is no "heaven or hell".

We cant see them, detect them etc.

Our forces and matter can only occur in our dimensions.

The only ticket to an afterlife is a particle that can occur in multiple dimensions, where an afterlife, if any, exists.

I hope what im saying makes sense.

Beleive me, im not very religous.



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 07:26 PM
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Originally posted by Dulcimer
The way I see it, the ONLY way an "afterlife" can occur is that we have to contain "spiritons" or a particle that can occur in multiple dimensions.


Who cares? Why do we need an afterlife? Science isn't about inventing an idea then inventing a theory to make the invention "possible."


Nobody seems to realise that the graviton, or gravity, goes throughout all dimensions while other forces do not.


Yes, yes they do. Not a reason for a spiriton.


We cannot see the graviton, yet gravity exists.


That means a few things. One, maybe there is no such thing as a graviton. Two, maybe we just haven't seen it. We haven't seen black holes, we haven't seen the very beginning of the universe, we haven't seen a female president. It does NOT mean such things don't exist, or aren't possible, or prove the afterlife.


Basically what im saying is that if a graviton can exist in multiple dimensions, while forces in ours are limited, what else exists in the other dimensions?


Stuff. Other dimensional stuff.

I still don't know why you're stating the idea of an afterlife or a spirit. The last thing we need in physics right now is more particles we won't ever find, especially ones that are nonsense.



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 07:40 PM
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Originally posted by Amorymeltzer

Originally posted by Dulcimer
The way I see it, the ONLY way an "afterlife" can occur is that we have to contain "spiritons" or a particle that can occur in multiple dimensions.


Who cares? Why do we need an afterlife? Science isn't about inventing an idea then inventing a theory to make the invention "possible."


Nobody seems to realise that the graviton, or gravity, goes throughout all dimensions while other forces do not.


Yes, yes they do. Not a reason for a spiriton.


We cannot see the graviton, yet gravity exists.


That means a few things. One, maybe there is no such thing as a graviton. Two, maybe we just haven't seen it. We haven't seen black holes, we haven't seen the very beginning of the universe, we haven't seen a female president. It does NOT mean such things don't exist, or aren't possible, or prove the afterlife.


Basically what im saying is that if a graviton can exist in multiple dimensions, while forces in ours are limited, what else exists in the other dimensions?


Stuff. Other dimensional stuff.

I still don't know why you're stating the idea of an afterlife or a spirit. The last thing we need in physics right now is more particles we won't ever find, especially ones that are nonsense.


First off, thanks for using terms such as "who cares" and "nonsense" It makes me want to post more.



2nd, We can't observe black holes directly, but we do see their effect on surrounding material - gas and dust which lets out its last gasp before being sucked into the black hole or flung away in a jet.


Thanks.



I think ill just leave this thread to die, since a mod thinks so highly of it.



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 07:44 PM
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O psh, hes just a guy....mods arent special...


Seriously though, dont mix physics and religion, its not smart, mostly because you will get flak from BOTH sides, and thats not helpful....



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 07:44 PM
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Sorry if I came off too strong, I think you're exaggerating my meaning, let me explain.

"Who cares" was in reference to "the ONLY way" and "nonsense" was in reference to pretty much the same thing which is my problem with this thread.

I still want a reason for why there needs to be an afterlife, why you're justifying a spiriton. I've got no problem with any of what you're saying except that you've yet to state why any of it is relevant.


Oh, and big quote right there.
See how nice I am?



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 07:51 PM
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Originally posted by Amorymeltzer
Sorry if I came off too strong, I think you're exaggerating my meaning, let me explain.

"Who cares" was in reference to "the ONLY way" and "nonsense" was in reference to pretty much the same thing which is my problem with this thread.

I still want a reason for why there needs to be an afterlife, why you're justifying a spiriton. I've got no problem with any of what you're saying except that you've yet to state why any of it is relevant.


Oh, and big quote right there.
See how nice I am?


How would I know why there could be an afterlife?

Why is there a current life?

This is just a thought I didnt say hey this is a fact.

Would you be happier if there was no afterlife? Maybe there is none.

So why am I justifying a spiriton? Well its the only plausible way I could see a soul or spirit existing. Its an opinion.

meh.



posted on Jul, 3 2008 @ 04:43 PM
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reply to post by Dulcimer
 


The concept 'spiriton' was first proposed some years ago, using the analogy of the electron, by the Hindu philosopher and scientist T D Singh as the fundamental particle that gives life to all living things. The idea is wonderfully summarised in his paper: "Hinduism and Science". Brian Champness (J C Bose and the Nature of Explanation project.)



posted on Jul, 3 2008 @ 04:56 PM
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The Spiriton was first proposed some years ago by the Hindu philosopher and scientist T D Singh as the particle of life, the particle that gives life to all living things. In the Hindu Veda the original word is the 'atman', but Dr Singh felt that 'spiriton' was a more modern concept, clearly analogous to the physicists electron. A summary of these ideas can be found in his paper: Hinduism and Science.

[edit on 3-7-2008 by Rationalist]



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