Zahi Hawass takes video cameras into sub-sphinx chamber?

Coz 1. The pyramids etc were built before the egyptian pharoahs etc.

and 2. He wants all the glory when all is released to the public, he wants to make sure that he has a full archive of facts so no one can challenge him.

Originally posted by cleasterwood
And you wonder why it was sealed off?

? Its not.

And why Hawass won't let anyone do any surveys of the area

? He does.

And why he demeans other archaeologists in their search?

Just because someone has a trowel (or in west's case, a promotional video) doesn't mean that they're an archaeologist.

And why he's so adamant in his convictions?

Becuase they're based on years of research?

He knows what's there and he don't want to share it with the world because it will disprove the 'historical' accuracy of his culture!

Yes, of course, thats it.

When people said that there was a room under the sphinx, he gave them permission to dig. To excavate the soils supporting the sphinx. There was nothing where the 'signal' was saying it should be. Nothing, it was a complete error, a 'ghost' signal that was incorrect. And yet to this day people still insist that its there, and now that he's covering it up. I'd say that, since he;s in charge of activities at giza, and thus has to deal with a lot of pyramid cultists and the like, that he's exasperated.

shadow88
The pyramids etc were built before the egyptian pharoahs

There is no evidence to support that.

He wants all the glory when all is released to the public, he wants to make sure that he has a full archive of facts so no one can challenge him.

That doesn't make sense. If he wanted all that, he'd've made the announcement, it'd've been the high point of his career. He, and the numerous other archaeologists and historians who have worked on those issues, have every motivation to reveal these kinds of things as soon as they can support those statements. They don't make these statements because there is no evidence to support them, because they are inaccurate.

I'm really amazed at how much bad press Hawass gets. He seems to be a perfectly decent person, and he certainly knows his stuff. Hell, he's even got a flair for the dramatic (the hidden golden mummies, opening the crypt, live!, etc), which is a pretty damned fun thing to have in an archaeologist.

Originally posted by Nygdan
Just because someone has a trowel (or in west's case, a promotional video) doesn't mean that they're an archaeologist.

i may be wrong here but i dont think west ever claimed to be an archaeologist - he is a geologist and went there to study the weathering of the rocks surrounding the sphinx to try and date it

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by cleasterwood
And you wonder why it was sealed off?

? Its not.

And why Hawass won't let anyone do any surveys of the area

? He does.

And why he demeans other archaeologists in their search?

Just because someone has a trowel (or in west's case, a promotional video) doesn't mean that they're an archaeologist.

And why he's so adamant in his convictions?

Becuase they're based on years of research?

He knows what's there and he don't want to share it with the world because it will disprove the 'historical' accuracy of his culture!

Yes, of course, thats it.

When people said that there was a room under the sphinx, he gave them permission to dig. To excavate the soils supporting the sphinx. There was nothing where the 'signal' was saying it should be. Nothing, it was a complete error, a 'ghost' signal that was incorrect. And yet to this day people still insist that its there, and now that he's covering it up. I'd say that, since he;s in charge of activities at giza, and thus has to deal with a lot of pyramid cultists and the like, that he's exasperated.

shadow88
The pyramids etc were built before the egyptian pharoahs

There is no evidence to support that.

He wants all the glory when all is released to the public, he wants to make sure that he has a full archive of facts so no one can challenge him.

That doesn't make sense. If he wanted all that, he'd've made the announcement, it'd've been the high point of his career. He, and the numerous other archaeologists and historians who have worked on those issues, have every motivation to reveal these kinds of things as soon as they can support those statements. They don't make these statements because there is no evidence to support them, because they are inaccurate.

I'm really amazed at how much bad press Hawass gets. He seems to be a perfectly decent person, and he certainly knows his stuff. Hell, he's even got a flair for the dramatic (the hidden golden mummies, opening the crypt, live!, etc), which is a pretty damned fun thing to have in an archaeologist.

1. Yes it is. Hawass specifically closed it off to outside research.
2. Only to those who don't have anything controversial to say to him. He flies off the handle everytime someone mentions something HE doesn't agree with and sometimes it does it publically. WHy then won't he let the French archaeologists onto the site?
3. now all of sudden Hawass contridicts himself by saying there is a room under there and he has excavated it, himself- not anyone else though.
4. THere no evidence that doesn't support the pyramids couldn't have been built by someone else either. Show me.
5. They don't make these statements because there's something more to hide. Again, he doesn't want to DISPROVE his culture's "history". By admitting there's something more, he would be saying his country isn't what it is said to be.

The arguement goes both ways you know.

Every so often a documentary comes out with Dr. Hawass promoting some "big discovery" in Egypt.

Personally I think he's promoting himself and his "knowledge" of Egypt’s past and has never found anything of value or importance in any of his Discovery Channel specials to date. He just boasts and grabs your attention with wild claims.

Have you noticed the pains that a real archaeologist goes through to preserve a sight, I guarantee that they don't haul camera crews along with them and risk destroying history underfoot.

And for being as wise as he claims to be, the only skill I've noticed him display is his ability to capture the attention of an audience much as the Mid-West medicine show peddlers used to do years ago.

The guy's a fake seeking fame and fortune in the dessert on funds provided by entertainment corporations. Take his documentaries as light entertainment and not true scientific research.

Originally posted by jdelta99
The guy's a fake seeking fame and fortune in the dessert on funds provided by entertainment corporations. Take his documentaries as light entertainment and not true scientific research.

sounds pretty accurate.

The Don King of "Egypt".

Originally posted by CyrusTheShepherd

Originally posted by jdelta99
The guy's a fake seeking fame and fortune in the dessert on funds provided by entertainment corporations. Take his documentaries as light entertainment and not true scientific research.

sounds pretty accurate.

The Don King of "Egypt".

OH YEAH! I totally agree with both Cyrus and jedelta99! Hawass may know something about ancient Egypt, but I don't believe he's protecting Egypt by letting camera men trample his precious artifacts underfoot. Another thing that annoys me is how quick he is to knock other people's theories down before giving them a real chance to authenticate their claims. I say, let them prove Hawass right or wrong. Either way what real harm can it cause that hasn't already been caused by centuries of previous explorers.

Originally posted by justyc
i may be wrong here but i dont think west ever claimed to be an archaeologist - he is a geologist and went there to study the weathering of the rocks surrounding the sphinx to try and date it

West didn't do this, the person that did this and came up with support for the much older date of the sphinx was another guy entirely, who is a geologist and did relatively solid work (tho many disagree with his conclusions and interpretations, he did scientific work). West is a guy who supports that work, but I don't think he's got a degree in either geology nor classical archaeology.

cleasterwood
Hawass specifically closed it off to outside research.

He didn't 'seal off' the openings in the spinx, and he's rejected future requests made by peopel to dig for a chamber under the paws of the sphinx, which is pretty darned reasonable, considering that he already dug under the sphinx where people were saying the chamber is. Apparently, the people requesting to dig hadn't even bothered to do proper research on teh subject and find out that there was already a dig. So no, he hasn't closed off the sphinx to outside research. He's worked with other people. What actual archaeologist has made a valid request for research and been rejected by Hawas's office?

He flies off the handle everytime someone mentions something HE doesn't agree with and sometimes it does it publically

If he gets uppity and pissy with 'pyramid power people' and unscholarly faux-researchers who make unsupported and even already refuted claims about 'secret chambers and tunnels', then more power to him.

now all of sudden Hawass contridicts himself by saying there is a room under there and he has excavated it, himself- not anyone else though.

No, this is not what he says. A group of people came to him with decent 'ground penetrating data' that seemed to show that there was indeed a chamber. Hawas gave persmission to do a dig and was involved in it. There was nothing, they got to where there was supposed to be a chamber according to the data and there was nothing. It was an error of interpretation of the orignal data.
So hawas, who is responsible for these incredible, irreplacable, artifacts, agreed to let people dig in their vicinity. This is far from the unfair and ludicrous representations of Hawas as some archaeological asshole.

THere no evidence that doesn't support the pyramids couldn't have been built by someone else either

You are saying that there is no evidence that the pyramids couldn't have been built by someone other than the egyptians? Thats a ridiculous statement. There's no evidence that the washington monument couldn't have been built by someone other than the american's either. Provide evidence that the pyramids were built by non-egpytians. Its silly to expect archaeologists to present evidence that the only possible explanation for the pyramids is that the egyptians built them. Thats not how archaeological research is done, and if those are the kinds of demands that Hawas, an archaeolgist, and a good one as far as I know, is presented with no wonder he rejects them.

By admitting there's something more, he would be saying his country isn't what it is said to be.

What the heck does Hawas care? Or any of the other hundreds of archeolgists and historians that have actually studied this material, many of them non-egyptians, care? Hawas is covering up strong evidence that, what, aliens built the pyramids, because the egyptians want to say 'we made them'? Thats hardly convincing.

The arguement goes both ways you know.

The arguement goes one way, and thats the way that the evidence points us to. The evidence strongly points to the pyramids and sphinx being built by the egyptians.

Originally posted by Nygdan
he's rejected future requests.....

he hasn't closed off the sphinx....

..... rejected by Hawas's office?

....more power to him.

Hawas gave persmission to do a dig......

......agreed to let people dig in their vicinity.

.......if those are the kinds of demands that Hawas,

.......no wonder he rejects them.

He will be stripped of this so-called authority, you wait.
He is tresspassing on holy land.

everyone knows that it's the meaning of life and the fountain of eternal youth down that there hole!

"....excavate the soils supporting the sphinx. There was nothing where the 'signal' was saying it should be. Nothing, it was a complete error, a 'ghost' signal that was incorrect....."

might a vast deposit of GOLD cause an electromagnetic anomaly, one LARGE enough to produce a ghost signal such as this??

maybe we should be even more enthusiastic about the prospects for something wonderful existing under there.

Originally posted by Ezekial
I've never really trusted Zahi Hawass. I bet he knows exactly whats under the Sphinx.

I agree. Since he is the self-appointed caretaker of these structures, I just have a strange feeling that he knows much more than he is willing to say for now. There could be a good reason that he is not coughing up any more information than he already has. It may perhaps be he has stumbled onto something big and maybe he feels he has to protect it by restricting access by others. Whatever the case I do not trust his words.

Nygdan,
Robert Schoch (SP) is the geologist who perpetuated the earlier date of the sphinx.

Never once have I said the pyramids were built by aliens because I don't even believe that. Hawass does care because he specifically denies anyone else could have built them. IT would undermine his life's work, so yes he does care. Were you there? Did you see who built them? For that matter did Hawass watch them being built? NO, so you may think you know, but you're only going by what Hawass and others tell you to be true.

My thoughts are this. If Troy was at one time considered fictional myth and was later discovered to have existed, so then could Atlantis. Explain away all the cultural myths of a sunken civilization, even the ones of Egyptian mythology. Even the ancient Egyptians believed that their gods came from a homeland that sank beneath the waves, so again, the pyramids could have come from a previous civilization. I say this because if you look at the pyramids of the Giza Plateau and the predecessors you can clearly see the superiority of the Plateau and surprisingly enough, the pyramids at Giza were the last ones ever built. To me, they could have been the first ones built and the later pharaohs tried to reproduce them without success so they gave up altogether.

Flyin High,
He does no more than he's willing to tell because he wants to sensationalize the find, just as he's done with all the previous discoveries. He's plastered it all over tv just to get ratings and more tourism to his country. I don't trust him as far as I can pick him up and throw him.

Originally posted by CyrusTheShepherd
He will be stripped of this so-called authority

No he won't, because he's earned it. He's good at what he does, that's why he's an authority in the field.

He is tresspassing on holy land.

No he isn't.

victor was right
might a vast deposit of GOLD cause an electromagnetic anomaly, one LARGE enough to produce a ghost signal such as this??

I dunno, but they dug into the ground and it wasn't there, so its not a good explanation.

ybe we should be even more enthusiastic about the prospects for something wonderful existing under there.

There's nothing there. Its been excavated. Its just sand and soils and whathaveyou. That was confirmation that there is nothing there.

Flyin High
Since he is the self-appointed caretaker of these structures

He's certainly not self-appointed, the government of egypt put him in charge of it and he's done a fabulous job of it. He got the job because he was a good, solid researcher.

cleasterwood
NO, so you may think you know, but you're only going by what Hawass and others tell you to be true.

And what in the world do you think you are going on? At least I'm trying to understand the situation from people who have actually studied these things and tried to research it.

If Troy was at one time considered fictional myth and was later discovered to have existed, so then could Atlantis

Problem is, the Troy of the story is nothing like the troy of reality. The real troy was just another city on a small hill. The real atlantis, if there ever was such a thing, will be nothing like what plato describes it as, let alone what people thousands of years later like to pretend it was.

so again, the pyramids could have come from a previous civilization

Its physcially possible, of course there is no evidence of a civilization even on the scale of ancient egypt existing before ancient egypt, let alone anything like what atlantis is proported to be. And of course this is all ignoring the very strong evidence that supports the idea that the pyramids were built by the very people who stated that they built them, the egyptians, and in the dynastys that its been shown to have happened in.

To me, they could have been the first ones built and the later pharaohs tried to reproduce them without success so they gave up altogether.

'To you' is completely irrelevant. The order that has been established has been established thru evidence and thoughtful and scholarly consideration of that evidence. Its meaningless to say that the stepped pyramid and the bent pyramid or the boxed funeary buildings and the walled funary complexes are degenerate and younger versions of the pyramids. You need to have good convincing evidence that they infact are degenerate nad younger, not simply suppose that they might be. You need evidence that hawas is hiding something, not simply baselessly assume that he is and brand the man a liar. Its the constant lack of evidence and the basing of fantastical ideas upon complete supposition that makes actual researchers, like hawas and other classical archaeologists, completely reject, and even laugh in the face, of such preposterous suggestions, and rightly so.

He will be stripped of this so-called authority

No he won't, because he's earned it. He's good at what he does, that's why he's an authority in the field.

He is tresspassing on holy land.

No he isn't.

You clipped of my words, "you wait."

Unfortunately most of civilisation wants there to be a bigger picture in egypt.
At the moment due to the way the archeology timescale works the great pyramid/sphinx are believed to have been built by khufu/khafre. Now if u read the inventory stele it says khufu repaired the sphinx's headdress due to lightning damage ( i cant read it but thats what i believe was translated) that kinda blows khafre being the builder of the sphinx out of the water as far as i am concerned of course khufu could i suppose have still built it ( The strange thing about the inventory stele is that it lists khufu's acomplishments yet doesn't list the great pyramid as one of them) . As for the great pyramid its a sticky subject because Howard vyse the man who found the quarry marks this along with a now lost cartouch bearing khufu's name has kinda created a sort of rigid timestamp.
If a number of professors of geology say that the sphinx's erosion is by water falling onto it i would believe them over an archelogist/egyptogist however i would more believe an archeologist/egyptogist on dating from evidence. As for the chambers under the sphinx who knows for certain only hawass is in the position to reveal information and extend rights for other to investigate them. However if there was any amazing discovery to do with the sphinx, hawass would come straight out with it, He would gain nothing from suppressing information.

Originally posted by CyrusTheShepherd
You clipped of my words, "you wait."

They were baseless.

perspicientia

As for the chambers under the sphinx who knows for certain only hawass is in the position to reveal information and extend rights for other to investigate them.

But hawas gave permission to dig there, based on teh results of something like ground penetrating radar. He was present at the digs, and the people that came up with the idea in the first place found nothing. That really lays to rest the idea that there is a chamber there, and coincidentally also marks Edgar Cayce as 'not actually psyhic', since this was one of his predictions.

As far as the sphinx being pre-egyptian, I personally think that there's nothing inherently wrong with the idea, but there doesn't appear to be any evidence of a civilization that would've had the resources to actually build something like it, until we get to regular egyptian civilization. Also, its only one geologist who advocates for a rainwater erosion pattern, but like I said, he's not regarded as being on the 'fringe', his work is, from what I understand, considered solid, tho most geologists and archaeologists ultimately disagree with it.

Originally posted by Nygdan
They were baseless.

You wait.

nygdan,
I see all of your points about hawass, but you really can't trust anything he or anyone else there says about the chamber, because you weren't there. Take ufo's for example. What if there is strong evidence that they existed but the government is trying to hide their existence, but there actually are aliens? What if there was evidence of some kind of chamber but archaeologists were trying to hide it, but there is actually a chamber. It would be the same situation if it was the other way around. What if there was strong evidence that aliens didnt exist, but the government was trying to convince us that there are aliens? What if there is evidence that there is no chamber, but hawass keeps saying there is? You may say "oh that sounds ridiculous" but think about it. Theres no possible way for us to know the truth unless we were there in person, which is my point exactly.
With that said, edgar cayce had thousands of readings about cures for illnesses and events and whatnot. I've only seen the numerous shows about him, but when in any show does it say he diagnosed a patient wrongly. All of his knowledge was accurate, which would lead me and others to believe that his clairvoyancy was just as accurate. So personally i think there is something under the sphynx. Im not saying i know, but i'm saying edgar cayce is strong enough evidence

reply to post by Howard the Dolphin


I too saw a documentary quite a few years ago. I have been waiting ever since for Dr. Hawass to do another on the chambers under the Sphinx. In that documentary, he was with a celebrity whose name I can't remember. What I do remember is that there was a very large chamber, with many tunnels leading out. There was also a cistern under that large chamber full of water. Dr. Hawass and the host celebrity for the documentary did not know how big the cistern was or even if it was actually intended to hold water. Dr. Hawass was very excited about the whole thing and as he was actually quite new to American documentaries and I suspect to being in front of cameras, he was flustered and his English was not as good as it is now. I have been following Dr. Hawass for all of these years since I saw that documentary, and he hasn't to my knowledge said anything publicly about it. He said at the time that there would be future exploration of the find, with underwater archaeologists exploring the cistern to see how deep and if it was intended for holding water or if it had naturally just filled up. As I stated, I have been following Dr. Hawass for years now, and find him to be a very patriotic man. Yes, he has no time for frivolous questions and/or people. He is very proud to be an Egyptian, and equally proud of his ancestors and their accomplishments. He takes umbrage to anyone suggesting that the ancient Egyptians did not build everything we see from ancient times. For anyone to suggest that he doesn't know his history or archaeology, obviously hasn't watched him walk or crawl into a new tomb and read right off of the walls or sarcophagus. Dr. Hawass holds his position because of his dedication to and knowledge of his country's ancient sites and artifacts. He has also been successful in bringing back many of the artifacts stolen from his country. And the suggestion that he is just trying to sell himself for the most money is absurd. He does require that any would be documentary makers pay for the privilege. He has enabled the Antiquities Department of Egypt, through this charging, to fund exploration for and testing of many sites and artifacts. I think that when he holds information close to his vest, so to speak, he wants to protect the heritage of his country from being destroyed by enthusiastic but uneducated or uncaring tourists and antiquities thieves.