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Illegal Immigration and Median Income

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posted on May, 13 2005 @ 04:44 PM
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As I peruse the numerous threads about illegal immigration, its recent upsurge, and the obvious lack of anything being done about it, I make an assumption...

Could it be, in fact, that the reason why G.W. Bush and company seem so soft on illegal immigration is that it inevitably causes the median income to stay low, therefore justifying less cost in labor to companies overall?




posted on May, 13 2005 @ 04:47 PM
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I think it's a lot simpler. The Hispanic voters don't want anything changed as many have relatives all over Latin America who might want to join them here one day. Since the Hispanic vote is an important one, nobody wants to touch the subject. Which is a sellout.



posted on May, 13 2005 @ 04:59 PM
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Ael is right, it's all about the vote. Remember when G Dubya was trying to talk to the crowd in spanish? I do. America should be an English only speaking country.

Ok, so now we are forced to work for cheap, but at what costs. They are bankrupting virtually every system we have in place. Who do you think is paying for it? They are bankrupting the government. I heard the waa waaaa stories about how illegals use a legal uncle's social security number to get a job and that they are paying into and not getting it back. Big flipping deal! Our hospitals are bankrupting,who's paying for the 4 new hospitals they had to open to put the illegals with leprosy in? who's paying for the 4 million illegals in our jails and prisons for the crimes they commit? Who's paying for the extra teachers to teach in spanish in our schools? Who's paying for the road upkeep for the 20 million more cars on our roads?.....it goes on and on. America is being invaded in broad daylight every day, it's will be our downfall and no one is doing a damn thing.

Do you have school aged kids? Yes? Did you know your child could be sitting next to an illegal's child that has leprosy or lethal tuberculoses? Hope you have good insurance.



posted on May, 13 2005 @ 05:04 PM
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Originally posted by Aelita
Since the Hispanic vote is an important one, nobody wants to touch the subject. Which is a sellout.


Bush touched on the subject briefly when he proposed blanket immunity and naturalization for about 3 million illegal immigrants. Note that this proposal DID NOT last long on the news!

But were 3 million immigrants granted such immunity and naturalization, that would have opened the door to all of their families almost instantly. Then there would have been even more low wage income earners who not only would then be paying taxes, but drive down the median income even more.

In this time of outsourcing labor to second world countries to save on labor costs (which I don't believe is really the intent there...), it might make sense from an American business survival standpoint.



posted on May, 13 2005 @ 05:07 PM
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Originally posted by DeltaChaos

Originally posted by Aelita
Since the Hispanic vote is an important one, nobody wants to touch the subject. Which is a sellout.


Bush touched on the subject briefly when he proposed blanket immunity and naturalization for about 3 million illegal immigrants. Note that this proposal DID NOT last long on the news!


Like I said, a sellout. I propose a vigorous deportation program. For real. What good is the law if it's not upheld.

Until that I refuse to take the Dept of Homeland seriously. Secure borders my a double s.



posted on May, 13 2005 @ 05:13 PM
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I think we need to send all the illegals to Irag. That way we can avoid a draft. They can earn an income from Uncle Sam (legally). Prove their allegance to America. Learn to speak English. After 4 years of service they can be legal, they will have proven they want to be Americans.

Illegals have no interest in adapting to America's customs. They only want to practice their own. They don't want to be Americans, they just want to own what we do.



posted on May, 13 2005 @ 06:23 PM
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Originally posted by Aelita
I propose a vigorous deportation program. For real. What good is the law if it's not upheld.


I think it's obvious that someone believes that that law is no longer useful and would rather see it ignored, for any number of reasons, be it votes, revenue, cheap labor for American companies, or whatever.

What I think it does is drive the income levels down so that companies can justify paying everyone less than they're worth.

But what if there were mass deportations, and then American kids started working the jobs that were left open? They would at least have to be paid $5.15 an hour, but in a lot of states, they would be paid at least 7 or so because states have established 'living wage levels'.

This would cause a huge strain on the system as it is, and companies would probably have to shut down, or seek to outsource more labor from other countries.



posted on May, 13 2005 @ 08:13 PM
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Two things about this glut of illegals.
"They" keep telling us the illegals provide a service in that the illegals do work that American wouldn't do. To my thinking that is pure HOGWASH. They left off a few words---should be the illegals do work that American wouldn't do at that rate of pay
I know Americans who are out of work that would be happy to get a janitor's job, or other "unskilled" labor.
So, I would say that having illegals does keep wages lower.

The reason nothing will be done to stop the illegal Mexicans etal entering this country: Hispanics are now the largest minority in the US. No politician hoping to get elected (or re-elected) want to risk alienating this large voting block.





[edit on 13-5-2005 by DontTreadOnMe]



posted on May, 13 2005 @ 10:08 PM
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Originally posted by DeltaChaos
This would cause a huge strain on the system as it is, and companies would probably have to shut down...


The strain would be on the business owners pocket, that is where the strain would be. I have met small business owners who think that they should be living in a mansion on top of the hill with Bill Gates's income just because they can sell sandwiches or boxes. It's greed, greed and only greed.

Companies that can't compete in a just and fair system should shut down as the owners of those companies are obviously incompetant.



posted on May, 13 2005 @ 10:45 PM
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Exactly. We don't live 20 people to a household. Blue collar families could eek out a living on $16-$28 an hour. Thanks to illegals and cheap labor, they no longer have to pay you that, you will be lucky to earn $6-$8 an hour. Insurance and benefits - forget about that, that went wayside with illegal cheap labor. But if you are an American and you want to be seen by a doctor and are uninsured, be prepared to have to pay 5-4 times the costs for treatment so YOU can absorb the costs of the freeloading illegals.



Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
Two things about this glut of illegals.
"They" keep telling us the illegals provide a service in that the illegals do work that American wouldn't do. To my thinking that is pure HOGWASH. They left off a few words---should be the illegals do work that American wouldn't do at that rate of pay
I know Americans who are out of work that would be happy to get a janitor's job, or other "unskilled" labor.
So, I would say that having illegals does keep wages lower.

The reason nothing will be done to stop the illegal Mexicans etal entering this country: Hispanics are now the largest minority in the US. No politician hoping to get elected (or re-elected) want to risk alienating this large voting block.





[edit on 13-5-2005 by DontTreadOnMe]



posted on May, 14 2005 @ 08:37 AM
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Originally posted by MauiStacey
who's paying for the 4 million illegals in our jails and prisons for the crimes they commit?

They don't have to be in jails, and where you got the figure of 4 million is beyond me. We currently, according to the Office of Congressional Budget house 390,000 illegal immigrants. Half of which are eligble for deportation. Why don't we deport them?

Who's paying for the extra teachers to teach in spanish in our schools? Who's paying for the road upkeep for the 20 million more cars on our roads?.....it goes on and on. America is being invaded in broad daylight every day, it's will be our downfall and no one is doing a damn thing.

Do you have school aged kids? Yes? Did you know your child could be sitting next to an illegal's child that has leprosy or lethal tuberculoses? Hope you have good insurance.



Your comments are uninformed, reactionary and not based in fact.



[edit on 14-5-2005 by DontTreadOnMe]



posted on May, 14 2005 @ 08:38 AM
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Boy I don't know why my post came out like that. I hope it's readable



posted on May, 14 2005 @ 11:37 AM
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Dude, Freddie...

That's pretty cool. I wonder if that constitutes excessive quoting...?



posted on May, 14 2005 @ 12:16 PM
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Originally posted by freddieb
Boy I don't know why my post came out like that. I hope it's readable

DC is right it is BIG quote, which I tried to tame a bit.
Please, try not to ever do that again. It is very hard to follow and I think most members would not even try. I wasn't sure what were your words and what it was you were quoting.



posted on May, 14 2005 @ 08:34 PM
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Yea guys, I'm sorry.
I don't even know how that happened.
It must be some kind of a conspiracy!

Just kidding.
I am sorry. I don't think it will happen again. If I can figure out how it happened this time.
Oh wow, I better not do it again. You took out the good stuff I said.
Well, I guess I deserved it.

[edit on 14-5-2005 by freddieb]



posted on May, 14 2005 @ 08:53 PM
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Originally posted by MauiStacey
Exactly. We don't live 20 people to a household. Blue collar families could eek out a living on $16-$28 an hour. Thanks to illegals and cheap labor, they no longer have to pay you that, you will be lucky to earn $6-$8 an hour. Insurance and benefits - forget about that, that went wayside with illegal cheap labor.


That's the free market in action. The principles of capitalism dictate that you maximise your profit and minimise your loss.

I hope you're willing to pay higher prices for everything because your corporations are only employing americans.



posted on May, 14 2005 @ 11:01 PM
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I agree Chris,
What America has traditionally and efficiently done in the past was not to bemoan imigration. In fact in the past imigration was encouraged.
I know that the next comments will be about Ellis Island and the past being legal imigration vs. illegal. Legal or illegal, it is imigration none the less.
I screwed up a post a minute ago so the points I made there are lost and I won't rehash them now.
50 years ago we adapted to changing technologies and industries and job markets by developing new industries and products. Today we are acting as though there is a finite amount of new ideas and potential for growth, like there is oil and timber. That is not so.
If we want to stay anywhere near the top of the world in development. We had better start developing again and quit belly aching. Laying back on our fata--s and crying about what isn't fair is one sure road to ruin.
That is not what America did 50 years ago and we better wake up and start thinking and moving or we will be left behind.
I'm no big industrialist. I'm a retired soldier and military police investigator. Now, I'm a building contractor. One sure way for me to fire a man, of any classification, is to have him tell me, more than a few times, about how or why he CAN'T do something.
I know that I can't build a business or solve problems for me or my customers with men like that working for me. I don't need that kind.
As you may guess, I have many Hispanic people on the job every day.
I'll tell you something else. Those people don't get paid any less than the Americans I have on the job. And in North Carolina the labor market has been tight for a long time.
What I am going to say now bothers me, but it is true. My hispanic employees can and usually do work circles around the Americans I employ.
That is just a cold hard fact. They didn't take anything from anybody. It was given to them by men who had the job but wouldn't perform. I pay them the same and get more production for my money. The only thing they did was outwork their former American born counterparts.
Now I know that many don't want to hear that. But that's just tough. It's the way things are. Sometimes we need to hear what we don't want to hear, because it's the truth.
Improvise, Adapt, Overcome or be left behind in the ditch. That's the reality of life anywhere you go.
Quit bitching about things that you don't see as fair. Life isn't fair. Or didn't your Daddy ever tell you that.
You people that lay around moaning about who and how somebody else did you wrong need to realize that you wouldn't be getting stepped on if you were running down the road instead of laying in the middle of it.



posted on May, 15 2005 @ 02:51 AM
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I believe the reason why immigration is being overlooked is because the corporations that buy and back the politics want it to be overlooked.

All the corporations are outsourcing labor so that people who otherwise wouldn't be drawing paychecks can now purchase their products. There's about 5 billion people in this world that don't have any money. If they had money, they'd certainly buy stuff with it.

Look, how many more cars or cellphones can you sell an American, or anyone else from the first world countries? Not many, but I bet you could sell an Indonesian one of those old cellphones from 15 years ago that is just gathering dust for 10 bucks. And then they could put up all those old cell towers that were replaced by the newer ones, so they could sell them a minute plan on a year long contract.

The distribution of wealth is necessary to exploit the market. Sometimes when the market your working is flooded, you just have to create new ones.



posted on May, 15 2005 @ 09:47 AM
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Delta,
What you say is true. I think you are right about the use of outsourcing and the current equations that corporate America is using to maximize profits.
I think it also shows a decided laziness and lack of ingenuity on their part.
My point is that there are better solutions if we commit ourselves to finding them.
Globalization is inevitable and in fact is already a reality. It makes things more difficult. We have to rise to the task. Applying isolationist thinking and attempting isolationist solutions with regards to a global economic front is not and can not prevail.



posted on May, 15 2005 @ 10:02 AM
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Yes, illegal immigration is being ignored (promoted) by our goverment as it does "support" US businesses. Companies, state that is they had to pay americans the minimum wages (as required by law) their products and services would be to costly for most americans. What they forget to add is that they are pocketing the profits that they make paying the illegals below minimum wage.
Think of it this way, minimum wage is what 5.25 and hour. The company pays the illegals what... 2.25 -3.25 and hour? That is 2 to 3 doallars an hour that is going right back into the ceo's pocket. now multiply that by the hundreds to the millions, per hour, that is once healthy "savings"!. Do you really think that the "savings" that the businesses are making is actually passed down to the consumer in any way shape or form? Heck no!
The Goverment is bowing to the wants of big and small businesses as well as the political groups such as LULAC




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