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Illegal Immigration and Median Income

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posted on May, 15 2005 @ 04:14 PM

Spot on with what you said a while back about the fact that they just want to own what we do.

I'm not American (I'm British), but I was in Germany when the Berlin wall came down. That was exactly what I felt when I saw all those people coming over to "freedom".
When I saw the pictures on TV (I didn't see it live) I just saw the expressions on their faces of, "And now, yes, at last, here come my Mercedes Benz and my BMW. I shall be denied no more."

In 1991 I think it was, when East Germany was no more, the East Germans had a lot of DDR Marks in their bank accounts because they didn't have any products to spend it on. Their old currency was exchanged 1:1 to Deutschmarks thanks to Helmut Kohl. The average amount was I think 80, 000 DDR marks. That was a lot, especially for 1991. What do you thnk they did with the money? Did they start a new business? Well, a few did. The wise ones. Relatives of my ex-girlfriend did just that and became close to millionaires (no other competitors at the beginning). However, most went straight out and bought a brand new Merc! Lol!

The problem was, only the old people remembered what it was like in a demand-based economy and so the middle-aged to young people thought that they could live like they did in the communist times (i.e zero unemployment and do no work) and yet own the goods of the West German capitalists. Ho ho ho!

How is East Germany doing now? It is a disaster. Unemployment 20%.
The side effect has been a lot of resentment from the West Germans. In fact a poll in the paper the other day said that 1 in 5 germans wish that the wall had never come down lol!

posted on May, 15 2005 @ 04:41 PM
For the most part, I agree with Ken on this one. The profit is not being passed on to the consumer as much and in as many products as I would like.

It is slowly happening. I read a report that consumer goods have come down in price over the last 10 yrs. (I know computers have) due to competition.
132 page book costs 40 pence to print in China as opposed to 2 to 3 pounds in Germany . Companies argue that they can't survive now without outsourcing because everyone else does. I don't know how much truth is in that statement. Book prices have come down a little (according to a report I read).

However, I'm not sure that they have come down at the same rate as costs have been reduced due to outsoucring. I'm sure brand name (so called quality) products haven't.

Also, industries where there is little competition, i.e. energy (oil), housing, medical (insurance) have gone up. Admittedly, not all these industries outsource (the construction industry does though). The profit on building and selling a new house with ilegals might be very healthy.

Another interesting info titbit, if it relates at all. A friend of mine who worked for BP in Dormagen, Germany, said that labour costs of the refinery were 10% only of total costs.

Also, cars have gone up in price (inflationary). Although now, Chinese built cars are coming in the market at much reduced prices.

I don't know what to make of it until I start working in the publishing industry which I am hopefully about to do soon.

posted on May, 15 2005 @ 06:26 PM

Originally posted by kenshiro2012
Yes, illegal immigration is being ignored (promoted) by our goverment as it does "support" US businesses. Companies, state that is they had to pay americans the minimum wages (as required by law) their products and services would be to costly for most americans. What they forget to add is that they are pocketing the profits that they make paying the illegals below minimum wage.
Think of it this way, minimum wage is what 5.25 and hour. The company pays the illegals what... 2.25 -3.25 and hour? That is 2 to 3 doallars an hour that is going right back into the ceo's pocket. now multiply that by the hundreds to the millions, per hour, that is once healthy "savings"!. Do you really think that the "savings" that the businesses are making is actually passed down to the consumer in any way shape or form? Heck no!
The Goverment is bowing to the wants of big and small businesses as well as the political groups such as LULAC

Actually kenshiro you're mis-stating something in a large way. No company that is actually hiring any illegal aliens in the US is paying those types of wages. The minimum wage is $5.25 and that is the lowest a company on US soil can pay it's employees, be they legal or illegal. What I think you are refering to is the wage that companies can pay if they outsource those jobs to countries that don't have minimum wage laws. Just thought I'd point that out before someone grabs your statement and uses it in some knee-jerk, parroted reply, due to their ignorance about US wage laws.
That being said, you are correct in that, these corporations are trying to say that they are outsourcing to other countries in order to keep prices low, when that is actually a lie. Because the savings are not being passed along to the consumer, but pocketed instead.

[edit on 15-5-2005 by freddieb]

posted on May, 15 2005 @ 06:38 PM
actually, I was refereing to the wages that is presently being paid to illegal immigrants versus what is paid to legal residents.
Yes, it is illegal for the companies to pay less than minimum wage to anyone. Remember though, if they are will to break the law in hiring these workers, do you really think that they would think twice about paying minimum wage.
Examples here in Dallas, In the asian community, according to the Korean american journal, the average wage for an illegal working in one of thier places of buissness, averages $1500 a month. The work week is 6 days a week, in some cases, the only time off is 2 days a month.
The lawn care bussiness is as bad or worse as those that due residential services tend to not report a majority of the work thus are able to hide aven more of the profits. I won't even try to address the building industry or other service related work but according to released figures, it is just as bad. Note many of thesse figures are notated in other related threads in regards to illegal immigrants here on ATS

posted on May, 15 2005 @ 06:48 PM
I am a building contractor in North Carolina. I can't speak for Texas.
Here we are actually audited on our payrolls twice each year. Once through the insurance commission, a state agency and again through the state dept. of revenue. These are mandatory annual audits that every corporate entity in the state must endure. the focus of these audits are our payroll.
My previous reply refered to the large corporations such as Walmart , who recently got caught and was forced to pay back wages, and others of that size. Yes I'm sure that many corporations of all sizes do things that are illegal, but I was speaking specifically to the wage issue here where I am.

posted on May, 15 2005 @ 06:51 PM
Last year, Wlamart was fined due to the hiring ond under paying of illegal immigrants. Walmart did pay the fine but also included that the illegals were working for a sub-contractor cleaning crew and thus were not the responsibility nof Walmart to police.
Give me a few and I will give you a link to the news story

Found it
250 arrested at Wal-Mart
I did notice that the article does not address the wages issue. still looking for that.

[edit on 15-5-2005 by kenshiro2012]

posted on May, 15 2005 @ 07:43 PM
Whatever, I'm sure you get the point I was trying to make.

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