The Speed Of Time

Maybe time is a speed opposed to Einsteins theory of it being a fabric of space.

Its like this imagine you are in a vehicle that is capable traveling faster than the speed of light ... so you fly around the sun right near the earths orbit. If you can get fast enough you will eventual return to the earths point of orbit around the sun before it actually happens, just keep going faster and faster and the further you would travel into the future. To go back simply fly in reverse.

I don't feel that I explained this very clear so if someone understands this please put it into better words so every one can understand.

Im not sure I fully grasp what it is you're trying to convey, but I can tell you the passage of time is a far more relative concept than absolute. If you were to hop on a ship and zip around our orbital path faster than the speed of light, you would arrive to see yourself prior to departure with time to spare. However you would not actually still be there waiting to leave.. you are only seeing the light that had only travelled so far before you left. You would not be in the future, the past, or anything but the present. From Earth's perspective, there might even appear to be two of you, but it would solely be due to the amount of time it would take the old light to reach the observers, versus the new light from your arrival.

mental divergence in time travel. ala "twelve monkeys".

superluminousity could happened everyday, but would you ever remember it?

I'm not quite sure what you mean by your theory that 'time is a speed', maybe you could try explaining it in a little bit more detail.

As for the part about going around the sun (which is what they did in Star Trek IV, btw ) you may be thinking along one of the following ideas:

Relativistic Mass
en.wikipedia.org...

Lorentz Factor
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

In particular (whether you are aware of it or not) I think you are referring to the equation t' = t * sqrt [ 1 - (v/c)^2 ] where if your velocity 'v' is greater than the speed of light 'c', then some odd stuff mathematically is going to happen, i.e. t' will be an imaginary number (assuming time t is a real number, which it is).

So, if I understand what you are asking about (and I'm not sure I do) then no, time is not a speed, but, according to the formula above (from the lorentz factor page linked earlier) then speed can affect time. Hopefully a physicist can clarify this further; I'm an engineering student, so while I have a pretty good understanding of the more practical aspects of physics, I'm a little bit weak on some of this theoretical stuff. We've got several knowledgable people in the field here on ATS; the mod Amorymeltzer comes to mind as one who can probably explain this way better than I did.

After having seen one too many personal examples of detailed glimpses of things that were yet to happen, sometimes years beforehand, but usually between a week and a couple of months before they occured, I can no longer accept that time is linear in nature. My current favorite theory is that all of time is the present moment, and the past and future are conceptual illusions that really only exist in the present. The other possible ways that the future can be seen ahead of time have not been as plausible to me, though I admit I am still very ignorant about the whole thing. If people do see things that are yet to happen, which I have been convinced is the case, how can it be possible? Any suggestions would be welcome. The two other possible ways I considered were: That all this is a product of my imagination, and that a deity like God knows whatever choices we will make before we make them, like it says in the bible. Neither idea sounds right to me, and I am hopeful that someone will share their wisdom on this topic with me.

Originally posted by apc
From Earth's perspective, there might even appear to be two of you, but it would solely be due to the amount of time it would take the old light to reach the observers, versus the new light from your arrival.

Besides everything you said, I agreed with. But, your trying to reach further than anything even possible in our moment in "time" when you say from Earth's perspective....watch out.

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII If people do see things that are yet to happen, which I have been convinced is the case, how can it be possible? Any suggestions would be welcome. The two other possible ways I considered were: That all this is a product of my imagination, and that a deity like God knows whatever choices we will make before we make them, like it says in the bible. Neither idea sounds right to me, and I am hopeful that someone will share their wisdom on this topic with me.

I'm sorry but here's a little secret....your neither idea sounds right to me statement is follewed by a product of your imagination.

apc is right you would most likely see a blurry, elongated image of yur craft infront of you.....actually as you are travelling faster than the speed of light you will most likely see a trail or string of yurself behind you......but once you slow down and stop the image will disappear, or rather you wont be able to see it as you are travelling at normal speed again.

Originally posted by Aether

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII If people do see things that are yet to happen, which I have been convinced is the case, how can it be possible? Any suggestions would be welcome. The two other possible ways I considered were: That all this is a product of my imagination, and that a deity like God knows whatever choices we will make before we make them, like it says in the bible. Neither idea sounds right to me, and I am hopeful that someone will share their wisdom on this topic with me.

I'm sorry but here's a little secret....your neither idea sounds right to me statement is follewed by a product of your imagination.

I do hope someone offers some wisdom that I can understand, I don't know what you mean. Could you elaborate? I have a different view of time cuz of what has happened in my life. I don't understand how it is possible, just know that it is part of my reality. I don't have a great imagination.

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
I do hope someone offers some wisdom that I can understand, I don't know what you mean. Could you elaborate? I have a different view of time cuz of what has happened in my life. I don't understand how it is possible, just know that it is part of my reality. I don't have a great imagination.

I'm having trouble following the random flow of ideas in this thread but I'll try my best in joining this conversation from a perspective which will merge with the rest.

BlackGuard, perhaps elaborating on exactly what experience you've had which gave you this perception of Time might clear things up. If I understand you correctly, you no longer see time in a linear way, although from an individual perspective it does appear to move that way, is that right??? Further, because you've had some experience of some kind which supports the idea, like clairvoyance for example, this adds to your theory once again that Time isn't locked into a linear framework, is that still correct so far???

So far I'd say you have fairly good grasp of the whole Space/Time Quantum Theory view of things actually. In other words, what I'm getting from you is that you realize Time, as a whole, can be seen as a Field of Probabilities instead of a sequence of step by step sequence. A visual metaphor would be seeing the movement of Events in Time as a Billiards "Break" where the spread of the balls represents many Possible outcomes rather than a collection of dominoes all falling down one after another in only that exact sequence they were placed. Are we on the same page here, or am I missing your point completely??

Here's one: I dreamt I was driving with Paul McCartney and Wings in an old beater car up through a narrow,
winding valley.
Around two weeks later, I was sent to a job at a place called Ryder Lake, I had never been there. As I started
to enter the valley, I noticed that the steep sides and the flat low overcast cloud made it seem like I was indoors,
exactly like my dream, no Wings though. I was alone. I was amazed how exactly the same it looked and said to
myself out loud, well if this is the same, I should come around a corner to the right and see a big white farmhouse
with a wrap around veranda.....about two or three turns later, I came around a corner to the right and burst out
laughing.....there it was. Many years later, I met a man who knew the lady who lived in that house, he recognized
it when I told him the story.

Another: I was in San Francisco with my ex. and we were just leaving fishermans wharf when I stopped dead in
my tracks. She said what? I was standing exactly where I had been in a dream, on a boardwalk beside a white
landscapers pickup full of rakes and shovels etc. It was parked on an angle in the middle of the boardwalk,
not lined up with anything, and was exactly the same as a scene in a dream from a few weeks earlier. I live in
Canada, and when I had the dream, I thought nothing of it, never even thought it might be SanFran, or precognitive
till that moment.


When I was in grade two, I had a dream that a boy in my class was kidnapped and taken to a cave. the kidnappers
broke a window of my classroom to get in. When I was having breakfast and telling my brother (who was in grade one)
about it, he swore he had the same dream. My mom, who was in the kitchen too, said she had the same dream too.
Well, I got to school, and the window was broken and the boy was not in class. He never did come back. I assume that
his family just moved away or something, but still....my dream was right about him being gone, and the window being broken.
When I was about 8 and my brother 7, we had the same dream, and it came true. A boy in my class was taken away
in the dream, and that day he was gone, and they must have moved because he never returned. I am reluctant to
mention this, but whatever...as my brother and I ate breakfast and discussed the shared dream, my mom said she
had it too.
I cringe when I mention that, it is so odd, and who knows, maybe she was just fooling us......though she never said so.

Back in 1983, my best friend's girlfriend was in a dream I had, and I told him about it, she and I were kissing, it did not
go over well, so I shut up. They broke up a month or so later, she moved out of her parents and into a basement suite, and
I was over there one night, and just as we started to kiss I realized it was the basement suite in my dream, exactly the
same. When I had the dream she was dating him, living at home. Within a couple of months of the dream, they split up,
she moved into a basement suite, and one night as we kissed, I remembered the dream and looked around. The couch and
tv were in the same place, the carpet was chocolate brown, the same colour, and there were a couple of sheets of writing
paper lying on the floor in front of the tv in the same place and orientation as in my dream.

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII


When I was in grade two, I had a dream that a boy in my class was kidnapped and taken to a cave. the kidnappers
broke a window of my classroom to get in. When I was having breakfast and telling my brother (who was in grade one)
about it, he swore he had the same dream. My mom, who was in the kitchen too, said she had the same dream too.
Well, I got to school, and the window was broken and the boy was not in class. He never did come back. I assume that
his family just moved away or something, but still....my dream was right about him being gone, and the window being broken.
When I was about 8 and my brother 7, we had the same dream, and it came true. A boy in my class was taken away
in the dream, and that day he was gone, and they must have moved because he never returned. I am reluctant to
mention this, but whatever...as my brother and I ate breakfast and discussed the shared dream, my mom said she
had it too.

perhaps you have an innate ability to transcend space/time. very interesting stories. the mysteries of space/time are not known to science yet, i like your take on the subject. btw, did you know that you repeated the story as you were typing it?

I visualize time as kind of like falling out of an airplane, except that there's no ground to hit. You keep falling and falling, and no matter what you do, you can't go up. That's why I think time always flows in one direction (the Time's Arrow concept) Now, in relativity, strange things can happen to time, at high velocities for example, which I think of as analogous to the falling guy crouching into a ball or spreading himself out to alter his surface area and thus his falling speed, since air resistance will change. He still falls down though.

As to the stuff about seeing into the future, I don't know enough to comment. I believe blackguard is telling the truth, although I have to question whether he remembers it accurately (sorry blackguard) Memories have a way of changing over time, and when you saw an event that was similar to the one in your dream, you may have unconsciously added the details of the room in real life to your dream. On the other hand, you may really have seen the future. I don't know either way.

The only thing I have to add to apc's post is that if you fly in reverse, you'll just do the same thing. Your speed is faster than light, but your velocity vector needs to be either forward or back, and back doesn't mean reverse.

Damn you, apc, beating me to the punch!

Here it is in simple terms:

Object's Velocity Through Space + Object's Velocity Through Time = Velocity of Light

perhaps you have an innate ability to transcend space/time. very interesting stories. the mysteries of space/time are not known to science yet, i like your take on the subject. btw, did you know that you repeated the story as you were typing it?

What it was is that I have typed each of these out numerous different times and then saved the texts together, and then I compare the different ones and see which ones are the most cohesive and clearly written, but I usually just post one of them, and this time I missed that there were two. I typed the two accounts at different times, for different groups, or threads, or emails, etc. So it wasn't like I typed it out twice in a row, I just copied and pasted without proofreading thoroughly enough. I gotta watch that.

That is the most supportive response I have received on a general basis when I have posted these things. I don't really like the concept of transcending time.... I would rather look for some quality inherent in time itself that for whatever reason, some people stumble onto it. I never know which dreams will be that kind, but one thing that is common is that they are all very vivid. I may not recall every single detail, but I can still picture scenes from the dream I had in grade two, and though some points may not be remembered correctly, of course, I have had more of these dreams than I have posted, and any incorrect memories would be few compared to the many vivid and detailed ones that have freaked me out. It is only lately that it has freaked me out, I used to just think it was 'neat'. Maybe it is neat, but it is more than that.... maybe. Who knows? I sure don't.
Thank you for not calling me a liar...lol.
I don't mind if anyone calls me crazy, but I hate being suspected of making this stuff up, like I have enjoyed the scoffs, and mockery all my life..........

[edit on 03 22 2005 by BlackGuardXIII]

If you zip around the sun faster than the speed of light so you arrive back at earth sooner than you left, that doesn't make sense to me.

Who is moving? Is the earth moving relative to you, or are you moving relative to the earth?

That is why time can't be a speed IMO.

Time has no speed(as per the thread title), Time is an Illusion produced through Consciousness and History. History is an Illusion produced by the Passage of time being percieved by a Self-Aware Mind.

Wow this is all very confusing to me. If traveling at amazingly high speeds will not allow you to time travel then what will? I remember reading all those theories and such about time traveling that related with speed

Originally posted by sardion2000
Time has no speed(as per the thread title), Time is an Illusion produced through Consciousness and History. History is an Illusion produced by the Passage of time being percieved by a Self-Aware Mind.

There is a differences between the past and time its self.