NEWS: Two U.S. Border Patrol Agents Detained in Mexico

I didn't know how Mexico treats firearms and ammunition, but knowing it now, I have even less desire to go to Mexico, especially, take my car, because I can never be absolutely sure (and I don't want to be) that I don't have a loose round rolling around somewhere.


[edit on 05/5/4 by GradyPhilpott]

1296 bullets. No guns. No reason.

Americans entering any country, not just Mexico, can expect a nice stretch at the pleasure of the head of state for this.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
I didn't know how Mexico treats firearms and ammunition, but knowing it now, I have even less desire to go to Mexico or even take my car, because I can never be absolutely sure, and I don't to be, that I don't have a loose round rolling around somewhere.

[edit on 05/5/4 by GradyPhilpott]

Grady it is not only Mexico, the same would happen if they entered Canada, since they have similar laws.

Personaly I aree with you, I would not want to go into Mexico. Mexicans have been known to kill people for only a nickel, they will rob anyone, very sad situation if you ask me. The people are desperate, yet the government are so corrupt they will let anyone buy them off, rather then correct the problems the face. You cannot say the same for Canada thought at least they treat people nice.

Shots
Americans in America don't get robbed for nickels? People in this country aren't desperate?

You must not have lived in the same neighborhoods as I have.

Mexico is no different than America. They have crooked cops, criminals, and perverts, just like we do. America isn't Heaven, Mexico isn't Hell, they're both just countries filled with individuals who are either benign or dangerous.

So let's not pretend we're safe anywhere, okay?

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
Shots
Americans in America don't get robbed for nickels? People in this country aren't desperate?

I never said Americans were desperate, perhaps you should go back and read what I stated again.

edit

here I will save you the time, this is what I said.

Mexicans have been known to kill people for only a nickel, they will rob anyone, very sad situation if you ask me. The people are desperate, yet the government are so corrupt they will let anyone buy them off, rather then correct the problems the face.

[edit on 5/4/2005 by shots]

Shooter's Hell

To people who don't shoot, 1286 rounds of pistol ammo sounds like a stockpile. To people who shoot regularly, it sounds like “time to buy more”.

Winchester .40 S&W typically comes in cases of 500 rounds -- 10 boxes of 50 each. MagTech .40 S&W typically comes in cases of 1000 -- 20 boxes of 50 each.

These guys were apparently carrying the equivalent of just under 26 boxes of 50 rounds each of .40 S&W pistol ammo.

That would fit in a briefcase. An admittedly heavy briefcase, to be sure, but the point is that these guys weren't driving a carload of ammo into Mexico.

And ten .223-caliber Winchester rifle bullets = half of one box, and a third of what the most popular AR-15 magazines will hold. Ten rounds isn't worth a trip to the range to shoot -- the gas would cost more.

All told, probably about $250 worth of ammo -- unless it was premium grade stuff.

Some members seem to think we're talking about a massive amount of ammunition, but it's not.

Run From The Border

As for what this means about Mexico or U.S.-Mexican relations, I suggest that it signifies roughly diddly squat, with the possible exception that the Mexicans seem to patrol the border more diligently than Americans do, which we already knew.

Rather, there is something fishy about this particular case. Very, very fishy.

I think it would be wise to reserve judgment pending more information, if more will ever be forthcoming.

The memory hole beckons.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
America isn't Heaven, Mexico isn't Hell....

America isn't heaven, but anywhere without a the right to keep and bear arms is hell, in my opinion, including some jurisdictions in the US. All those who believe that the right to keep and bear arms is an inalienable right granted by our Creator, as affirmed by our Constitution, should be cautious about where they travel and spend their money.

Xenophobia rears its head again when we look south of the border.

But apparently it's curable, so long as your inalienable right to carry a gun and kill your agressor granted to you by your "Creator"is preserved wherever you go.

Such thinking is thankfully unwelcome in much of the developed modern civilized world.

Shots
Read what I said again. You were saying the Mexicans are desperate, and would rob you for a nickel. I countered with two questions, which you have failed to answer.

Grady
Agreed, and agreed. (people should be able to carry whatever tools they require, assuming they aren't prone to injuring their fellow citizens with said tools, in which case they're criminals and need to be removed from society - gun laws are preemptive punishment IMO) Anyway, I don't think Mexico is Hell, not by a long shot. Have you ever been to Puerto Escondido? Mmmm...I'm getting sleepy just thinking about hammocks and beer...

Edit: for clarity

[edit on 4-5-2005 by WyrdeOne]

GradyPhilpott,

Homicide With gun 1993
Rate per million

USA 44.6
N.Ireland 21.3
Italy 13.1
Belgium 8.7
Canada 8.4
Finland 7.4
Australia 6.6
France 5.5
NZ 4.7
Switzerland 4.6
Spain 3.8
Norway 3.6
Netherlands 2.7
CSSR 2.6
Sweden 2.0
W.Germany 2.0
Scotland 1.1
England&Wales 0.8

Apologies for the fairly old homicide info but its the only ones I could find and I doubt they will have changed much in a decade. But, as you can see, the hell of Britain with our strict gun controls means that we are 55.75x less likely to be murdered with a firearm God its hell living over here and not having a great likelyhood of being shot. Enjoy your gun heaven, you deserve it.

Just incase you try the "well they'll just use knives or baseball bats to murder with instead" argument then look at this then.

Homicide general 1993
Rate per million
USA 75.9
N.Ireland 43.3
Finland 29.6
Canada 26.0
NZ 20.2
Belgium 18.5
Australia 19.5
Italy 17.4
Scotland 16.3
Spain 13.7
CSSR 13.5
Sweden 13.3
France 12.5
Norway 12.1
W.Germany 12.1
Netherlands 11.8
Switzerland 11.7
England&Wales 6.7

Again, what a hell hole it is to live here in England, youre still 11x less likely to be murdered with ANYTHING here in England. How ever do we cope without our God given right to firearms!?!

Sorry for going off topic but im just denying this

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
anywhere without a the right to keep and bear arms is hell, in my opinion,

ignorance to the truth.

Its like the chicken and the egg. Do Americans need firearms to protect themselves from an extremely violent society? Or is it the firearms that have made the society so extremely violent? Either way if thats your vision of heaven, enjoy.
Stats

[edit on 5/5/05 by subz]

Shangri-La, Wherefore Art Thou?

Such thinking is thankfully unwelcome in much of the developed modern civilized world.

I'm guessing that would be the same place where there is no violent crime, no history of war and everyone resolves their disputes peacefully.

If only all of us could live there.

But alas, that exalted privilege is reserved exclusively for those able to reside in the land of make-believe.

We must learn from our mistakes here in Europe then eh? Maybe if the United States had been ravaged by two World Wars they'd have different attitudes to their firearms.

What I Don't Come Here For

Originally posted by subz
We must learn from our mistakes here in Europe then eh? Maybe if the United States had been ravaged by two World Wars they'd have different attitudes to their firearms.

You can play this pointless game if you like, but this is where I move on to something more worthwhile.

Personally, I find the idea of people coming on the Internet to talk about "barbaric Americans" ironic enough to satisfy my palate.

I really find the idea of Europeans lecturing Americans on pacifism supremely ironic -- and patently offensive, as well.

History bears grim enough witness to that. I recommend studying it to see why an American would take offense to such vile, ignorant commentary.

Proper Non-ATS Venues For Nationalistic Bigotry

As for devolving into some “my country is better than yours” drivel, there are far more suitable forums for such wastes of time.

For example, here are some fun things to try:

Log in here and post about how proud you are to be French. Grab some popcorn and prepare to be impressed by the responses.

Then, log in here and post about how proud you are to be an American. Sorry, no time for popcorn there, because you will be unceremoniously banned.

What I like about ATS is that it is a nominally neutral source for alternative information and opinions. That's interesting to me.

Partisan or nationalistic bigotry I can find anywhere. That's not interesting to me.

The Value Of Polarized Opinions Expressed In Scatological Terms

GradyPhilpott is free to puff about how great America is and how God wants us to have guns. That's fine.

You can post about what a bunch of violent cowboys we are and how guns are evil. That's fine too.

Both represent what I am sure are honest -- if not very original -- opinions.

However, my opinion is that I got tired of reading these exact same opinions on the Internet about twelve years ago, and time hasn't made them any more appealing to me.

I'm sick of “America is God's gift to the world” versus “Europeans are morally superior to violent Yankees”.

Both statements are assertions of gross ignorance and cultural chauvinism.

Guess what? We all suck.

None of us is perfect, and we are much, much more alike than we'll ever be different. So this “us/them” dichotomistic bullcrap is just that: something even a bull has no further use for.

I sure as heck have no use for it.

“I Can Quit Anytime” (So How About Now?)

If you want to indulge in polarized thinking, knock yourself out.

I'm trying to get out of that nasty habit -- one I still haven't totally kicked yet and can relapse into without warning -- so I hope you can understand my reluctance to have “just a little drink” and line up for the inevitable back and forth these kinds of exchanges devolve into.

If I really was interested in that, I could cut and paste from one of millions of existing threads here, from other forums, from USENET, from pretty much anywhere this has been beaten to freakin' death -- and beyond.

No thinking required, just quick reflexes and a steadfast refusal to consider the unthinkable possibility of maybe being wrong.

Have fun, if that's what such a thing really is, but don't expect me to stay long when the party devolves into a thoughtless, drunken brawl.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
Shots
Read what I said again. You were saying the Mexicans are desperate, and would rob you for a nickel. I countered with two questions, which you have failed to answer.

[edit on 4-5-2005 by WyrdeOne]

What I saw was more like statements with question marks behind each, hardly in the form a question should be asked.

You have voted Majic for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

HERE HERE!...
clapclapclapclapclapclap...
well said...

true... we are far more alike than different...
people overcome corrupt governments failings all the time...
It is the people of a country that make it what it can be,
it is the governments that tend to screw up the humanitarian process...
not always the case, but a peoples justice and human kindness, can compensate for much of their leaders corruption.

You have voted Majic for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

Two guys with a thousand rounds in their truck?...

Sounds to me like they were going shooting. I don't know why they'd go shooting in Mexico when they have all that wide open space on the American side. I also don't know why they'd be practicing with hollow points. Maybe because they were free?

1400 rounds is not a large amount of ammunition. I can blow that in a weekend with my friends. The other circumstances are troubling, though. I think they were probably going to go hang out in the desert and get drunk with some young ladies they had met in their travels, and fire off some bullets.

Soldiers aren't too bright when you add alcohol, firearms, and beautiful women. Trust me.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
I hate to inform people that 1300 rounds of ammunition isn't really all that much for someone who is in law enforcement or shoots regularly.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the hollowpoints are usually prohibited for target practice. I suppose because they can fragment and send shrapnel flying, as opposed to just burrowing into the back wall.

So they are carrying 1300 hollowpoints. Also rifle rounds? It does look suspicious.

Shots

What I saw was more like statements with question marks behind each, hardly in the form a question should be asked.

You saw what you wanted to see. I asked two legitimate questions, which you have still not answered. You made a blatantly bigoted statement by characterizing Mexicans as dangerous thieves, and now, not only have you failed to justify or retract that statement, you're playing the nit pick semantics game to avoid having to own up to your statements. I'm trying to prompt you to rescind that nonsense, and you're not taking the extended hand. Bad form, to say the least.

This is what you said, FYI.

Mexicans have been known to kill people for only a nickel, they will rob anyone..

To which I replied

Americans in America don't get robbed for nickels? People in this country aren't desperate?

Now that the two statements are right next to each other, can you please answer my question? (I assure you, they are questions.)



[edit on 5-5-2005 by WyrdeOne]

[edit on 5-5-2005 by WyrdeOne]

Originally posted by Majic
Shangri-La, Wherefore Art Thou?

Such thinking is thankfully unwelcome in much of the developed modern civilized world.

I'm guessing that would be the same place where there is no violent crime, no history of war and everyone resolves their disputes peacefully.

No, smart alec, it is the majority of the civilized world that has states that do not permit citizens to carry firearms as fashion accessories. Not shangri la.

But the majority of the civilized world (wherein the US represents a notable exception where people express their constitutional right to bear arms as if it is some God-given gift, which it is probably not) is not of interest to some Americans who don't look outside their box. Perhaps sane people would see that as curse not a gift, ask around a little more.

Educate yourself about gun laws overseas and crime rates, and you will be less tired of 12-year old debates that remain unresolved in your head. Sweeping generalizations and fallacious assumptions about the correlation of gun control and crime rate reduction/increase are pointless in resolving your struggle.

[edit on 5-5-2005 by MaskedAvatar]