NEWS: Two U.S. Border Patrol Agents Detained in Mexico

Originally posted by subz
How does a Border Patrol guard "forget" he's got 1200 hollow points in his car? Especially when he obviously knows what and what cannot cross the border? Regardless of whether or not the "forgot" ignorance of the law is not a legal defence.

Nice try but will not fly here. First I never said anything about ignorance of the law. I simply stated it would be a possiblity he forgot they were in the car that is all.

Everyone forgets things all the time like where they placed their car keys or how many times have people left the house without their wallets?

You seem to be implying that cops are not real people when in reality they are like you and I. That being the case I am sure they like everyone else can forget things that is what happens in real life.

Comparing this to leaving the house without your cell phone is not comparing apples to oranges.

When crossing a border, you do a mental checklist -

"Driver's license? Check."

"Cash? Got it."

"Let's see, is there anything in this car that I should declare? Anything that will get me raped in a Mexican jail?"

As opposed to,

"La, la laaaa going to work, early in the morning, haven't had coffee yet, la la laaaa my wife is sleeping around OH DAMN FORGOT MY WALLET!"

Zip

Hey, no one mentioned this, but the Mexican Military has repeatedly crossed the border and killed our people. I know, they Mexicans, we can't do anything to those poor Mexicans, even when they come over and kill US Citizens. ANd I don't mean the gang members, I am talking about the Military doing cover fire for drug czars to get drugs into the country and end up killing a few people.

I'd like to look up those incidents. Got any links?

Thanks!

Originally posted by Zipdot
Comparing this to leaving the house without your cell phone is not comparing apples to oranges.

Zip

No it is not comparing apples to oranges as you might think. My point was in real life people forget things all the time. What makes you so sure that was not the case here?

No human is perfect as you might like to think, we all forget things.

For all anyone knows the officer may have been taking things out of the car before he left only to get distracted in some way that made him close the trunk to attend to what happened. when he returned to the car it is very conceivable he forgot he not completed what he started. As I stated before it happens all to time in real life.

And what would America do if you were caught trying to board the plane with a firearm? You think they would just turn you around, give you a light farewell, and forget about what you were trying to do.

Originally posted by Jamuhn
And what would America do if you were caught trying to board the plane with a firearm? You think they would just turn you around, give you a light farewell, and forget about what you were trying to do.

Whoa... wrong analogy...
no question they should be arrested, but in america we (still) have this wonderful thing called due process... (granted, it has become less and less protective these days)
to throw them into a jail and lose the key, they have to be found guilty at trial...

thes poor border agents will die a horrible death in a festering and plague ridden rat cage unless they can pay there way to freedom.

Originally posted by Roadscholar
I'd like to look up those incidents. Got any links?

Thanks!

Here ya go


americas.org...

You have to read down in the story a bit to find the specific killings in Oak Cliff (a south Dallas "suburb" that looks a lot like west Beirut, with fewer palmtrees ).

Will the wonders of google ever cease?

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
thes poor border agents will die a horrible death in a festering and plague ridden rat cage unless they can pay there way to freedom.

Cry me a river, they shouldnt of broken Mexican law then should they?

Why is there sympathy here?

If they took all that ammunition here, Britain, they'd of been arrested as well if they didnt declare it and tried to SMUGGLE it in. Whats the difference because its Mexican law they broke?

Oh yeah thats right, the border is leaky so Mexican law is not worth the paper its written on. Typical American arrogance there.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Hey, no one mentioned this, but the Mexican Military has repeatedly crossed the border and killed our people. I know, they Mexicans, we can't do anything to those poor Mexicans, even when they come over and kill US Citizens. ANd I don't mean the gang members, I am talking about the Military doing cover fire for drug czars to get drugs into the country and end up killing a few people.

So youre saying that Americans can break Mexican law because some Mexicans have broken American law.

So with all the invasions American military have done illegally in Asia, Middle East and South America that should mean no one should really pay much attention to American law. Great logic

Originally posted by Shots
You seem to be implying that cops are not real people when in reality they are like you and I. That being the case I am sure they like everyone else can forget things that is what happens in real life.

Oh sorry, apologies you werent talking about ignorance of the law and how thats ok. You were actually saying that forgetting about laws is ok instead. Much clearer thanks.

Sorry officer, I forgot that speeding/killing/smoking cannabis/stealing was a crime. You know its was a complete rush this morning and I just forgot the law...along with my wallet...wheres my wallet?

[edit on 4/5/05 by subz]

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
thes poor border agents will die a horrible death in a festering and plague ridden rat cage unless they can pay there way to freedom.

Wrong!

Mexican "due process" is already in the works. This is not the cesspool that it once may have been in places. Why, I hear they've gotten downright civilized down there these days, with indoor plumbing and all.....just like West Virginia.

From the Source:
The agents, both assigned to the U.S. Border Patrol in El Centro, Calif., are being held at a Mexicali prison and face weapon possession charges.

The Mexican federal attorney general's office said the Border Patrol agents were unable to show that they could legally import the ammunition and didn't have a permit by Mexico's Defense Department.

So they aren't going to face a firing squad in the courtyard or anything.

This isn't Thailand! We have a strong, if strained, relationship with our southern neighbor. The U.S. Marine that they detained similarly in 1999 was eventually released, although his case was quite different.

I don't think that these two will get off completely, but they probably won't 'die a horrible death in a festering and plague ridden rat cage'.


[edit on 4/5/05 by Roadscholar]

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft

Originally posted by Roadscholar
I'd like to look up those incidents. Got any links?

Thanks!

Here ya go


americas.org...

You have to read down in the story a bit to find the specific killings in Oak Cliff (a south Dallas "suburb" that looks a lot like west Beirut, with fewer palmtrees ).

Will the wonders of google ever cease?

Folks, we can DISCUSS the news or we can snipe at each other over it.

If the sniping continues, this will be locked.

Someone once asked me if the dangers they heard about Mexico and Mexican jails were true. I told him that depends completely on where you're arrested. No matter where you get arrested in any country, jail sucks. You can spend a month in jail, after the initial presentation of probable cause in front of a judge, awaiting trial just to be sentenced to a week in jail and thereby set free because you had done more time than was necessary - in Houston, where we feed our inmates apple pie and Coca Colas.

Mexico is not a pasteurized nation. There are filthy holes and there are beautiful tourist destinations in the country. I don't expect a Mexicali border prison to be too much of an endurance test for a couple of Americans weapons charge violators to await their trial. Furthermore, this is only news because they are border patrol agents.

Zip

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft

Will the wonders of google ever cease?

Way !

Thanks for posting these for me. This may end up being a good topic for a discussion thread.

I think we've either some very stupid agents or two corrupt ones. Until further information comes out, I can't say more.

I believe however that by far, the illegalities committed at the US/MEXICAN border can be ascribed to those individuals headed north.

Originally posted by periwinkle blue
I think we've either some very stupid agents or two corrupt ones. Until further information comes out, I can't say more.

I believe however that by far, the illegalities committed at the US/MEXICAN border can be ascribed to those individuals headed north.

I cannot prove it, it is mere speculation.

But a part of me holds out the hypothesis that what we have here are two very "set up" agents.

And, in the immortal words of Tony Blair, in the House of Commons:

"I refer the honorable member to the reply I gave some moments ago."

Originally posted by periwinkle blue
I think we've either some very stupid agents or two corrupt ones. Until further information comes out, I can't say more.

Why is everyone on this stupid and corrupt idea all the time? There is absolutely no evidence to back up that theory.

Perhaps it was just a human error that occurs all the time in real life. Which is "One of the agents simply forgot it was there"....... at least in the real world, I live in......

The difference here being, if you do anything illegal in Mexico and you're American, you are punished. If you're Spaniard-descended mexican, you can usully work something out.

A MExican comes into this country by dodging cameras, sneaking in guns "to protect himself from ranchers", he's detained, released, and given welfare benefits. In fact, social services agencies go out of their way to *not learn* a hispanic's status. Whether for schools, medical care, cash and food stamp benefits, it's better to deliberately claim ignorance. And yes, I *do* work for the socail services.

Do you think these agents will get a Mexican-taxpayer funded lawyer? Do you think they will have Mexican social serivices checking to make sure they're getting all the culturally-appropriate food and cash benefits they need? Do you think there are people out there willing to fake references for renting, get them approved for driver's licenses? And print out comic-book style pamphlets on how to sneak into Mexico?

Not at all. And to the (insert descriptive swear word for bodily orifice) saying thay a Mexican importing anything would get shot at because he was waving around a burrito? Do you even bother to look around and see that cops aren't even allowed to arrest or confiscate cars of unlicenced drivers to check for pot, because they are held personally reliable for lawsuits of "racial profiling"?

Nice to see the Fox propaganda machine is working so well. the very people whom are held to second-or third-class citizenship in his own country, who hold few positions of power in government or business, who can't get jobs and aren't allowed to benefit from the country's resources, are so willing to sing his praises while he has them doing his grunt work and stealing from America and sending cash back that he taxes the bejeezus out of before allowing their relatives a piece of the cash.

If Fox wants to steal resources and cash from America, he should at least have the cajones to admit it, step up, start a war, instead of hiding behind subversive lawyers and preachy, holier than thou rhetoric. And our president needs to call it as it is, instead of kissing the Mexican mafia ring.

Is this just a coincidence or possible related?
Colombia Arrests 2 U.S. Soldiers

BOGOTA, Colombia, May 4, 2005

(AP) Colombian police detained two U.S. soldiers for alleged involvement in a plot to traffic thousands of rounds of ammunition — possibly to outlawed right-wing paramilitary groups, authorities said Wednesday.

The two U.S. Army soldiers were arrested during a raid Tuesday on a house in a gated community in Carmen de Apicala, located southwest of the capital and near Colombia's sprawling Tolemaida air base, where many U.S. soldiers are stationed. National Police chief Gen. Jorge Daniel Castro said the two U.S. soldiers, whose names or ranks were not disclosed, were arrested at the house where a large cache of ammunition was discovered and that three Colombians were also involved.

"In the course of the investigation, two Americans arrived, they did not give a satisfactory explanation and were put at the disposal of the prosecutors' office." - Gen. Jorge Daniel Castro, National Police Chief

www.cbsnews.com...

Originally posted by Vajrayana
Is this just a coincidence or possible related?

I doubt they are related there is a big differance between thousands and 12 or 14 hundred rounds