America 2005 is Germany 1930

America is far far different country than Germany was in the 1930's. If you paid attention in history class instead of goofing off you would see 1930's Germany was in a terrble depression and still harbored anger over their treatment after WW I. Unemployment was at record levels and the enomomy was in a shambles....also there was a moral decay in the German society which provided a ripe environment for the rise of the Nazis.

America only reacted after being attacked again and again. 9/11 was the final straw. Also, I don't see any Brown-shirts burning books in the streets....I don't see Islamic stores or Mosques being attacked by right-wing Christians.

As mentioned, This is pure Propaganda without a shred of truth.

Maximu§

I know this post is pretty out there, and is probably raise alot of eye-brows, but I do not want petty name-calling bouncing around... I want contructive critizism and conversations...

You want some constructive criticism? I'll give it to you.

Your thesis is complete bunk. Your comparison of post WWI Germany with 2005 America lacks any kind of factual connection. Further more, your hatred for America is what fueled your pathetically inept comparison. In your attempt to make America look as bad you can, you have proven your self without a shadow of a doubt to be nothing more then a United States hating-at-any-cost boob.

Don't let facts and reason get in the way of your hate America crusade.

Originally posted by evanfitz

Thats one of many reasons, im simply saying that the way germany acted was of deep emotional stress. It was its past that led up to the rise of the nazi party.

But do you not see the US heading into a position where the people will be in severe emotional distress with unemployment, poverty.. I hear a lot of people in the USA stating that they are not happy with their current situation and are wanting changes to help return America to the country that they believe should exist.. couldn't the way that a large quantity of American citizens think that they are unhappy with this situation be the product of this system for introducing the political requirements similar to that which the Nazi's were trying to (and successfully) attain with the German people? Granted, not all Americans feel the same way about the government, some believe that the USA has a just cause and I would not say they are stupid for believing this, no more stupid that those who oppose the idea that the Bush ideas global control and a one world government, it is purley down to the individual and what information they chose to believe. However, the best way to assess the way the world will head by certain actions taken is to see what happened to countries in the past that followed the same route. I am sure that the citizen of Germany during WW2 were not all bad people in the same way that not all American people are, but had they known then what they know now, the opinion of those idividuals would I am sure be totally different in the case of the majority. I am not saying that Americans are in anyway similar to Nazi's, what I am saying is that the events show that the cause of the current political powers that be may not be that far different than that of the Nazi party and the agenda of the powers that control the USA will eventually come to light when kids study these events 50 years from now in school.

"But the power which has always started the greatest religious and political avalanches in history rolling has from time to immemorial been the magic of power of the spoken word, and that alone. Particularly the broad masses of the people can be moved only by the power of speech.
-Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf

I guess Bush jr. skipped that part.

Seriously...good topic for discussion, however as presented (by the penning author), it is a fine example of how fanaticism and ferver can take root without much in the way of founded truthful conclusions or even a substancial foundation. Some simple superficial parallels may be drawn or inferred, to that point I'll agree.

However, one can not treat history as a buffet, take only what you like a leave the rest (very similar to actions of the Nazi propaganda machine) Also, by presenting and purporting these paralles as 'a point of fact' in the current American condition...c'mon. What's next..'America the Master Race'? Joseph Goebbels would be very, very of proud the methodology in how the original author painted his points.

Good post.

I think that the U.S. is in trouble, however the Bush administration is still a far cry from the Third Reich. They do use propaganda, but as much as I disagree with them, military fascism just isn't good for business. I don't see them wanting that, it's much easier to influence than to control. Good observations, but the 1930's Germany was much more brutal.

That being said, I can easily imagine some sort of political upheaval in the U.S. in the near future, say 10-20 years.

I'm not saying it's certain or that it will even happen, but once gas gets above $10 a gallon I think this whole country might start to fall apart.

It could be religious or military, hell we might even split geographically into separate states.

One thing is for certain and that is, the future does not look good. I don't think it's some vast conspiracy, but more just short-sighted energy and economic policies, that leave us all screwed. Even if you support Bush you have to admit that this country is headed for trouble.

unemployment and poverty is nothing near the emotional stress Germany went through. They lost their since of pride, WW1 was lost.

The US is a country that seems to remind our citizens of history, hence "The History Channel", probably one of the most popular channel in all of America. They usually have one or more special of Nazi Germany on nearly ever week.
Ever heard the saying "As soon as you forget history is day it repeats itself." or well something among those lines.

Good saying, probably one of my most favorite.
--------------------
The media would never allow the US government to get away with the idea of a new type of government or changing it dramatically. Especially politicians.
Kinda hard to explain, if you lived in the US you would see it right off the bat.

Well consider the fact that the we decided for world domination. The president would order the strike. Four years later election time, he's either gone for good or back for another four years.
By this time the US government would have already been defeated by China and the Soviet Union alone.

The point of the matter is, we have a serious debt in our hands, low economy and a war thats costing us 162 billion, 4 billion in my state. How are we going to pay for the extra military funding???
Not to mention, the military ground forces are suffering. We have a decreasing number of troops volunteering. Ah the draft, the president promised no draft, but who really believes him??? A bunch of soldiers with no heart for a future war. Thats why we use our all volunteer army first, but that seems to be decreasing.

An estimated report from the pentagon. I remember reading it, saying in a post 9/11 america an estimate of 1 million troops have served in a combat zone. some of which are serveing their 3rd tour of duty. (my opinon, some of the bravest men out here)

Originally posted by LeftBehind

I'm not saying it's certain or that it will even happen, but once gas gets above $10 a gallon I think this whole country might start to fall apart.

We are covered from an oil standpoint.

US has 1.8 TRILLION barrels of oil in Utah - may have more then whole Middle East combined.

In fact, I forsee the US setting the oil market in the future. With Iraq under US influence, along with Kuwait and Saudi oil under our influence, we are in good shape.

In fact, it is Europe that should be shaking in it's boots.

In all fairness, you are making MANY assumptions. And clearly you have a liberal viewpoint. With that in mind, this thread is doomed to be unfair, simply because you have corrupted it with opinion.

This whole thread is to bash those "stupid" people who voted for Bush - but what if the "stupid" ones are the one's that didn't vote for Bush?


I could just as easily say that as you say what you are saying now.

This thread is garbage propaganda. I'm sorry, I apologize for the name calling, but that is exactly what this is.

-wD

Originally posted by ufo3
Its true, the Germans denied knowing of concentration camps

Guantannamo Bay is an excellent example, the majority of US Citizens pay little to no attention to the attrocity that is Guantannamo Bay - not to mention actually DOING something about it... It is exactly the same as the Australian Baxter Detention Centre... Wake up and smell the coffee...

So what if the Government hasn't oficially turned Racist - does it need to to take over the world? No...
Does it need to Burn books and other Literature? Though they have banned many "pro-Cuban" books, and they do have the Patriot Act now.
Do they need the entire country brainwashed into blind Nationalism? No, all they want is a stupified nation that feels they are helpless...

Originally posted by ufo3
Still its a good point though if the take over was implemented slowly then it could be very hard to spot, the patriot acts could be considered part of it but thats a matter of opinion.

The US Government wont even release the number of Military bases it has around the world... But can someone please tell me how the US Government can justify to its people spending $400-Billion on the Military (a budget DESIGNED for World Domination), and only $71-Billion on Education.

53.4% of the US Government Budget Goes into "Defense"
2.9% of the US Governent Budget Goes into Education...

Explain how that is Justifyable?

Ghostsoldier-

The people of the United States fund education differently than other nations. Perhaps this is confusing you. The federal government is not supposed to fund education, that's the state's job.

The federal government IS responsible for the 'common defense' and it SHOULD spend more of it's budget on that. If you are really interested in the actual figures of education funding, it's not hard to find- 460.24 billion.

2003-2004 figures

You act as if we love our leader, and will follow him to the pit of hell. Even if the truth is, he will be gone in three years, and I seriously doubt any of his family will ever win a race.

Do we have a choice? did you vote to go to Iraq. The only decision we make is who makes the decisions.

but not for world domination, mostly they are their for the reasons of the Soviet Union. Places like the Middle East, which are getting a bit out of control.

We are the ones spreading fear? So if the US actually achieves world domination, will you say that it was just a fringe benefit of protecting everyone?

I understand that the thread is somewhat biased and is equally extreme as the rightwing conservative view. But when there is a large enough distance between the publicly disclosed intent of an action of government and the actual result of that action, we are obligated to ask questions.

Namely this one, "Is their public intent their genuine motive? and if not what is their real one?"

53.4% of the US Government Budget Goes into "Defense"

FY 2004 reciepts total $US 2.17 trillion where did 53.4% come from?

2.9% of the US Governent Budget Goes into Education...

The US federal education budget doesn't reflect "all the money" the US spends on education. States, counties (in some cases parishes) and municipalities are the primary sources which provide respective funding and oversight for US education.

No, all they want is a stupified nation that feels they are helpless...

Well...it's apparently not just the US's problem.

US FY 2005 Budget

Originally posted by benign
Do we have a choice? did you vote to go to Iraq. The only decision we make is who makes the decisions.

That is why true democracy does not exist in America, Americans should look towards Venezuela for an example and follow them into the future... Every 4 years you get to decide who is President, and within that 4 years you do not get a say in what happens at all...

America is living under a dictator-ship of multinational CEO's, this has been glossed over by the words FREEDOM and DEMOCRACY, merely because you get to vote every 4 years, and drive a car - this does NOT make you free...

Originally posted by benign
"Is their public intent their genuine motive? and if not what is their real one?"

Do you mean; Is making the public "safe" their motive?

If so then I will say no, infact I would say HELL NO ... Its all about M-O-N-E-Y ... Money equals power... That is all it is and nothing more...

EDIT:
I will stand corrected on the Budget statements I made, I dont understand the way your system works, and I think that is the way it is supposed to be... The figures I used were from various websites - none of them giving a clear example...

None the less, I would like to point out the MAIN argument... The US Government could be spending its money ALOT better... ie solving its own problems, guns, gangs, drugs, prostitution, education and health care are just some...

[edit on 17-4-2005 by ghostsoldier]

Venezuela?

Lets look at the last 20 years...

1984 Social pact established between government, trade unions, and business; national debt rescheduled as oil revenues plummetted.

1987 Widespread social unrest triggered by inflation; student demonstrators shot by police.

1989 An economic austerity programme was instigated. Price increases triggered riots known as Caracazo; 300 people were killed. Martial law was declared and a general strike followed. Elections were boycotted by opposition groups.

1992 An attempted antigovernment coup failed, at a cost of 120 lives.

1996 Former President Carlos Andrs Prez was found guilty on corruption charges and imprisoned.

1999 Hugo Chvez was inaugurated as president. Flooding and mudslides swamped Venezuela's Caribbean coast in late December, resulting in death tolls as high as 30,000, at least 150,000 homeless civilians from 23,000 destroyed homes, 70,000 evacuees, and 96,000 damaged homes.

2000 Despite a shrinking economy, Hugo Chvez was re-elected as president, pledging to redistribute oil wealth from the rich to the poor. He later took a leading role in persuading the Organization of Petroleum-Exporting Countries (OPEC) to restrict world oil production to force up prices. In November, Chvez was given powers to legislate on certain issues by decree.

2002 President Chvez resigned from office under military pressure following street violence. Pedro Carmona Estanga, leader of the conservative business lobby, headed a transitional government; the National Assembly and Supreme Court were closed by decree, the recent constitution annulled, and the country renamed Republic of Venezuela. However, within a day he was forced to resign as Chvez returned to power with the support of paratroops and the presidential guard.

2003 A two-month opposition-led strike against the government of left-wing President Hugo Chavez crumbled as private-sector workers returned to work. However, the country's political and economic situation remained unstable.


Well, at least it wouldn't be boring. But..... nah.


Venezuela

I dont think you understand what great things Venezuela has done since Chavez has come into power...

1. Written a new constitution. Fifty percent of it was written directly by the population. It was put to a referendum and it won the support of 70% of voters. This constitution extended the democratic, social and human rights of the population far beyond the boundaries of a simple parliamentary democracy. The constitution calls for participatory democratic bodies of people to organise and implement new initiatives, such as the ones mentioned here.
   
2. Eradicated illiteracy according to United Nations standards.
   
3. Lowered the infant mortality rate.
   
4. Created 3000 new Bolivarian schools.
   
5. Brought in more than 1.5 million people into the education system free of charge.
   
6. Established a free university system aimed at the poor majority traditionally excluded from tertiary education (the poor receive free textbooks, free transport to university, free meals at university). Students and staff also work together democratically to create the curriculum.
   
7. Built more houses for the poor in two years than in the previous 20 years under the old governments.
   
8. Created access to fresh, clean and safe water for millions of people for the first time in their lives.
   
9. Re-distributed millions of hectares of unused, idle yet arable (agriculturally usable) land to landless poor people.
   
10. Renamed Columbus Day (Christopher Columbus the ‘explorer’) Invasion Day and are rebuilding the nations’ knowledge of real indigenous history and indigenous resistance.
    
11. Opened popular food markets which buy food from food cooperatives, it then gets sold in the popular food markets at 30% below the price of food in the big supermarket chain stores.
    
12. Opened 1000 free kitchens have been opened to provide free meals for people without homes.
    
13. Constructed a massive free healthcare system which now provides free healthcare for the first time in history to poor workers and unemployed people.
    
14. Struggled for and won back control of the gigantic oil industry (off corrupt executives and top management) which is now managed jointly by the government and the oil workers.
    
15. Increased taxes on corporations, and forced them to actually pay their taxes (McDonalds and Coca Cola were shutdown for three days as punishment for avoiding payment of their full tax bill).
    
16. Increased the minimum wage by 30% in 2004 (this was not the first increase since 1998). Government revenue from corporate taxes and oil sales have been used for many social programs and minimum wage increases.
    
17. Banned employers sacking workers (which was declared by the government in early 2003). This has been extended and continues, allowing the rapid growth of a strongly rank-and-file-active democratic trade union movement that is washing away the pro-boss unions.
    
18. Recognition of domestic work, extending permanent social security payments to people who do domestic labour (mainly women), none of this payment is taken away if their companion is in work.
    

If anyone thinks that Chavez is a dictator you are seriously mistaken - and I would suggest you stop watching FoxNews...

2002 President Chvez resigned from office under military pressure following street violence. Pedro Carmona Estanga, leader of the conservative business lobby, headed a transitional government; the National Assembly and Supreme Court were closed by decree, the recent constitution annulled, and the country renamed Republic of Venezuela. However, within a day he was forced to resign as Chvez returned to power with the support of paratroops and the presidential guard.

He REFUSED to resign, and was illegally arrested by corrupted top Military brass, who were funded by the big businesses who were beginning to suffer under Chavez. I am almost CERTAIN the CIA played a major role in getting the ball rolling also...

Did you actually HEAR what Pedro Carmona Estanga wanted to do to Venezuela? It was basically facism, people were being shot on streets for protesting against Pedro...

Chavez was supported by 70% of the people, it was the tiny majority who were rich at the expense of others that were complaining... Get your facts straight...

[edit on 18-4-2005 by ghostsoldier]

ghostsoldier,


solving drugs ? surely you jest ! that's the gov'ts cash cow.

they sell its' citizens dope and arrest them for it...what a great scam


man , people are so out of touch...I try talking to people , but they get this glazed over look in their eyes , hehehe...

I shouldn't laugh...cuz it's pathetic

we're heading for a cliff and most folks think everything'll be fine...or they're more interested in J-Lo , or some hollyweird folk...or hockey , baseball , you name it....everything except us FROGS , GETTING COOKED , SLOWLY....




I think there are multiple agendas going on...UN control ,a one world gov't , the muslims agenda....and more deciet and deception than one can shake a stick at...

real scary doo-doo goin' down...and folks are just plain checked out...

Many "enemies" of the United States are in fact those that help the
people of their own country. They are dubbed enemies by the press, who
are owned by the corporate giants, who in turn benefit from the misery of
their people.

Chavez seems determined to keep Venezuela from becoming another puppet
of the corporations. Which is no surprise

Some other news for you ghostsoldier...Chavez has made some wise
investments recently..
He just ordered 10 military transport planes from Spain
up to 24 Super Tucano combat jets from Brazil
100,000 ak47s, 44 helicopters and 50 MiG29 jets from Russia

and get this, he only has 35,000 troops at the moment.

www.freep.com...

As far as the United States being able to bring the population down to the level of hatred that the Nazi regime had, I would be thoroughly impressed if they could pull that one off. I also believe they learned from Hitler's mistakes, he revealed his true intent from the get-go. The true intent of the US won't be revealed until they have real control over all governments. And even then it will only be in action, I think the lip service and propaganda will continue till the very end.

Originally posted by toasted
ghostsoldier,


solving drugs ? surely you jest ! that's the gov'ts cash cow.

they sell its' citizens dope and arrest them for it...what a great scam


man , people are so out of touch...I try talking to people , but they get this glazed over look in their eyes , hehehe...

I shouldn't laugh...cuz it's pathetic

we're heading for a cliff and most folks think everything'll be fine...or they're more interested in J-Lo , or some hollyweird folk...or hockey , baseball , you name it....everything except us FROGS , GETTING COOKED , SLOWLY....
I think there are multiple agendas going on...UN control ,a one world gov't , the muslims agenda....and more deciet and deception than one can shake a stick at...

real scary doo-doo goin' down...and folks are just plain checked out...

Right on toasted

We are going over the edge...and the band plays on.

Maximu§

Ominous Parallels
flash movie entrance

Is the freest country on earth moving toward totalitarian dictatorship? What were the factors that enabled the Nazis to seize power in pre-war Germany? Do those same conditions exist in America today?

These are the questions raised — and answered, with frightening clarity — by Leonard Peikoff, Ayn Rand's intellectual heir, in his powerful book The Ominous Parallels.

"We are drifting to the future, not moving purposefully," Peikoff warns. "But we are drifting as Germany moved, in the same direction, for the same kind of reason."

However, its not the kind that some are hoping. But I've read the book and its excellent and stimulating.

cant compare USA to Nazi Germany since we don't target Jews, even with racism against Muslims, its ironic that the Frenchies who put the law banning the scarfs in school wen in America Muslim women can wear what they want and it aint much of an issue. Nazis negotiate with the Soviet Union over who gets to keep what part of Poland. if we tend to invade Canada, you dink there be a country above Canada. and Guatemala aint no Soviet Union by helpin to take half of Mexico with us. each country is unique and we are unique and Germany is unique. that is how it is. can't compare a country with different language and geography and mindset with each other. by the way, Hitler served in a war before he took power, Bush did not that is considered a relief that shows that they are both are different. if Bush lived and experience Hitler's past then he truly be Hitler but he aint.