The Truth About Jesus

a reply to: Unharmed

Just keep in mind that confusion is a natural part of the learning process.

As to meaningless and empty, life is what we make of it.

We give our lives meaning via our actions in this verse.

Need to go do some work now Unharmed.

Have a good day.

a reply to: Unharmed

Not every responds to the same message, or has the same motivators.

Many of my friends who are rabidly Anti-Christian actually espouse Christian Beliefs all the time.

They've just been turned off by the concept of "God" because of Bad Faith Actors in his Name, who embrace the hardline Old Testment God.

A lot of them have serious complaints about mixed messages in the Bible iteself.

Which begs the question, which is more important?

Worshiping the messenger without living the message or living the message without worshiping the messenger?

In creation, even Lucifer has his role to test the hearts and minds of Men.

a reply to: andy06shake

No real denying the fact that the Bible contains a few stories, rather similar, or somewhat of a rehash, of religions tales that came before.

Yes, like the one about the local beauty who got knocked up and said a god did it. Very popular amongst the ancients, that story.

OH my, I'm the devil incarnate again. Did a man called Jesus live or not. There is no solid evidence he did, that's called faith. Though, biblical scholars are falling over themselves scrabbling all over the holy land try to find ANY evidence. None yet, but a few forgeries.
The bible as we know it stems from manuscripts dated around 50-100 ad and has been added and amended throughout the centuries and those manuscripts were written in Greek. I could hazard a guess that 100% the "disciples" , ordinary Jews, did not speak or write Greek so these manuscripts are second hand.
As for quoting the Torah to justify the bible, the oldest Torah can only be traced to 1155 ad, though older scraps, that's scraps not complete works, have been found.

As for the distinction between Paganism and Christianity you really must deny ignorance and seek for yourself. But to give you a few hints. Paganism and pagan worship was practiced in western Europe centuries before the Romans and Christianity arrived. But I digress. No one and I mean no one can attribute any Christian festival to todays calendar or days because this calendar (Julian/Roman) was only adopted in 45 bc and they adopted Christianity in 306 ad. Though some historians place the start of Christianity in western Europe as the 2 nd century ad. Now which came first in the calendar Pagan festivals or Christian festivals. Clue:- it wasn't the Christians.

Not sure about Christ Our Lord, but I learned the reason for the Easter Bunny...

a reply to: crayzeed
There ARE the letters between Herod and Pilate concerning Jesus, but there's a debate as to their authenticity...

a reply to: crayzeed

What "Paganism" and "Christianity" have in common is that it's just people once born as babies doing their thing, only knowing what they know. Be it stealing, being happy or anything anybody is able to do.

There once was a man who got pretty old who lived his entire life in a religious setting where he was taken right after his birth. He never saw a woman in his life, at least, it's a story I encountered. We're here and people do many things besides sitting and contemplating.

The term Christian, it's only an insult to people taking it the wrong way. I don't really think of myself as a Christian, I'm just me. Born again? Rather in the grey area beneath the darkness far away from the light. I'm torn apart by sides, I can't be me but I just don't know what to say.

a reply to: GENERAL EYES

I always point this out, you can read the Bible but shouldn't we be talking with God?

a reply to: Unharmed

Both.

I usually only consult scripture when God (or what I understand as God) wants me to. It's complicated and nearly impossible to explain, nut yes, I always have the Creator on my mind when I exercise my Free Will.

a reply to: GENERAL EYES

I understand....

I have a connection with the Virgin of Guadalupe and I'm not a Catholic and I consider myself a recovering Christian from the small Southern Baptist Churches in Rural Texas. O, the stories I could tell.... perhaps for another thread.

a reply to: lilzazz

I'd look forward to reading, if you're so inclined to share with us.

originally posted by: Unharmed
a reply to: GENERAL EYES

I always point this out, you can read the Bible but shouldn't we be talking with God?

NO WAY! We want dogma, doctrine, and ideologies!! Not meaningful relationships! How do you judge others with THAT!?!?

a reply to: AlexandrosOMegas

Well, yea, some entertainment is always nice.

originally posted by: 19Bones79

It is unlikely that Jesus’ hair was long, because the Bible says that “long hair is a dishonor to a man.”​—1 Corinthians 11:14.

Don't expect these types to provide too much accurate and reliable information about Jesus, that is also important to know about Jesus:

“However, the inspired word clearly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired statements and teachings of demons, by means of the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, whose conscience is seared as with a branding iron.”(1 Timothy 4:1,2).

“However, there also came to be false prophets among the people, as there will also be false teachers among you. These will quietly bring in destructive sects, and they will even disown the owner who bought them, bringing speedy destruction upon themselves. Furthermore, many will follow their brazen conduct,* [Or “their acts of shameless conduct.”] and because of them the way of the truth will be spoken of abusively. Also, they will greedily exploit you with counterfeit words. But their judgment, decided long ago, is not moving slowly, and their destruction is not sleeping.” (2 Peter 2:1-3)

Mark Dice has whole videos dedicated to what's described in the bolded part, connecting* “the way of the truth” to freemasonry, the illuminati, and pyramidology (the occult; *: that is, trying to make it appear that there is a connection, by the use of propaganda techniques: by agitating the emotions, sifting the facts, exploiting the useful ones and concealing the others. Distorting and twisting facts, specializing in lies and half-truths. Your emotions, not your logical thinking abilities, are his target. As explained in the article in my signature.). It won't wake you up to anything important. Nor will it allow you to draw close to God, it will only pull you further away. As he keeps you busy “always learning and yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth.” (2Tim 3:7) As he 'greedily exploits' your attention for personal gain. Much the way Alex Jones does it, who has made millions off the conspiracy entertainment market; these are not truth seekers, these are “opposing the truth”, “... having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power and from these turn away.” “Now in the way that Janʹnes and Jamʹbres opposed Moses, so these also go on opposing the truth. Such men are completely corrupted in mind, disapproved as regards the faith.” (2 Tim 3:5,8)

Knowledge (Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 2)

...
Knowledge (gno'sis) is put in a very favorable light in the Christian Greek Scriptures. However, not all that men may call “knowledge” is to be sought, because philosophies and views exist that are “falsely called ‘knowledge.’” (1Ti 6:20) ...
... Thus Paul wrote about some who were learning (taking in knowledge) “yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge [...] of truth.” (2Ti 3:6, 7)

Is Jesus God?

MANY people view the Trinity as “the central doctrine of the Christian religion.” According to this teaching, the Father, Son, and holy spirit are three persons in one God. Cardinal John O’Connor stated about the Trinity: “We know that it is a very profound mystery, which we don’t begin to understand.” Why is the Trinity so difficult to understand?

The Illustrated Bible Dictionary gives one reason. Speaking of the Trinity, this publication admits: “It is not a biblical doctrine in the sense that any formulation of it can be found in the Bible.” Because the Trinity is “not a biblical doctrine,” Trinitarians [whereislogic: like Mark Dice] have been desperately looking for Bible texts​—even twisting them—​to find support for their teaching.

A Text That Teaches the Trinity?

One example of a Bible verse that is often misused is John 1:1. ...

...

Identity of “the Word”?

Many Greek scholars and Bible translators acknowledge that John 1:1 highlights, not the identity, but a quality of “the Word.” Says Bible translator William Barclay: “Because [the apostle John] has no definite article in front of theos it becomes a description . . . John is not here identifying the Word with God. To put it very simply, he does not say that Jesus was God.” Scholar Jason David BeDuhn likewise says: “In Greek, if you leave off the article from theos in a sentence like the one in John 1:1c, then your readers will assume you mean ‘a god.’ . . . Its absence makes theos quite different than the definite ho theos, as different as ‘a god’ is from ‘God’ in English.” BeDuhn adds: “In John 1:1, the Word is not the one-and-only God, but is a god, or divine being.” Or to put it in the words of Joseph Henry Thayer, a scholar who worked on the American Standard Version: “The Logos [or, Word] was divine, not the divine Being himself.” [whereislogic: note the hypocrisy and deception when the ASV still translates John 1:1c as “and the Word was God”, misleading their readers while at least this translator who worked on this translation, clearly knows better, he knows that's not what it says nor what John meant, but the reader is none the wiser, and kept in the dark concerning this crucial information, the truth of the matter. So he and his fellow translators, are “opposing the truth” about Jesus and his* God as well. *: Jesus referred to his God as “my God” (Jn 20:17) and the Apostle Paul said: “Praised be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ”. (Eph 1:3; 2Cor 1:3; 11:31; 1Pet 1:3; Trinitarians just argue that this phrase is talking about the Trinity, a ridiculous argument, and a rather blatant lie clearly contradicting the Scriptures.)]

Jesus made a clear distinction between him and his Father

Does the identity of God have to be “a very profound mystery”? It did not seem so to Jesus. In his prayer to his Father, Jesus made a clear distinction between him and his Father when he said: “This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.” (John 17:3) If we believe Jesus and understand the plain teaching of the Bible, we will respect him as the divine Son of God that he is. We will also worship Jehovah as “the only true God.”

“If any man teaches another doctrine and does not agree with the wholesome instruction, which is from our Lord Jesus Christ, nor with the teaching that is in harmony with godly devotion, he is puffed up with pride and does not understand anything. He is obsessed with arguments and debates about words. These things give rise to envy, strife, slander, wicked suspicions, constant disputes about minor matters by men who are corrupted in mind and deprived of the truth, thinking that godly devotion is a means of gain. To be sure, there is great gain in godly devotion along with contentment. For we have brought nothing into the world, and neither can we carry anything out. So, having food* [Or “sustenance.”] and clothing, we will be content with these things.
But those who are determined to be rich fall into temptation and a snare and many senseless and harmful desires that plunge men into destruction and ruin. For the love of money is a root of all sorts of injurious things, and by reaching out for this love some have been led astray from the faith and have stabbed themselves all over with many pains.” (1 Tim 6:3-10) ("Those who are determined to be rich" are just catering to the bigger market, 2Tim 4:3,4, and since the market for the truth is very small, Mt 7:13,14, and the market for digging up dirt about "the way of the truth", Pr 16:27-29, and those who want to have their 'ears tickled' with this dirt, is much bigger, it's obvious which market they end up catering to and why. Sadly, their audience has become "dull in [their] hearing", Heb 5:11, "for looking, they look in vain, and hearing, they hear in vain, nor do they get the sense of it. And the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled in their case. It says: ‘You will indeed hear but by no means get the sense of it, and you will indeed look but by no means see. For the heart of this people has grown unreceptive, and with their ears they have heard without response, and they have shut their eyes, so that they might never see with their eyes and hear with their ears and get the sense of it with their hearts and turn back and I heal them.’" As Jesus explained at Matt 13:13-15, quoting Isaiah 6:9,10, where Jehovah is giving the instructions, so the "I" at the end there is referring to Jehovah.)

The “understanding heart is one that searches for knowledge”; it is not satisfied with a mere superficial view but seeks to get the full picture. (Prov. 15:14) Knowledge must become ‘pleasant to one’s very soul’ if discernment is to safeguard one from perversion and deception.—Prov. 2:10, 11; 18:15.

The person who is rightly motivated seeks understanding, not out of mere curiosity or to exalt himself, but for the very purpose of acting in wisdom; ‘wisdom is before his face.’ (Prov. 17:24) He is not like those in the apostle Paul’s day who assumed to be teachers of others but were “puffed up with pride, not understanding anything,” unwisely letting themselves become “mentally diseased over questionings and debates about words,” things that produce disunity and a host of bad results.—1 Tim. 6:3-5.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: 19Bones79

Aye, he was not born at Christmas or died at Easter.

That's just the Holy Roman Church of St Peter appropriating Pagan festivals for their own control purposes.

And yet you won't hear anything particularly important and truthful about the doctrine of the Trinity (or the lie that Jesus is Jehovah God) in the Mark Dice video, another such lie from the same source (pagan philosophy).

According to the Nouveau Dictionnaire Universel, “The Platonic trinity, itself merely a rearrangement of older trinities dating back to earlier peoples, appears to be the rational philosophic trinity of attributes that gave birth to the three hypostases or divine persons taught by the Christian churches. . . . This Greek philosopher’s [Plato, fourth century B.C.E.] conception of the divine trinity . . . can be found in all the ancient [pagan] religions.”—(Paris, 1865-1870), edited by M. Lachâtre, Vol. 2, p. 1467.

The New Encyclopædia Britannica says: “Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord’ (Deut. 6:4). . . . The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies. . . . By the end of the 4th century . . . the doctrine of the Trinity took substantially the form it has maintained ever since.”—(1976), Micropædia, Vol. X, p. 126.

The New Catholic Encyclopedia states: “The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title the Trinitarian dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective.”—(1967), Vol. XIV, p. 299.

Trinity Doctrine, A False Teaching Of Man, Council of Nicaea (video link)

In The Encyclopedia Americana we read: “Christianity derived from Judaism and Judaism was strictly Unitarian [believing that God is one person]. The road which led from Jerusalem to Nicea was scarcely a straight one. Fourth century Trinitarianism did not reflect accurately early Christian teaching regarding the nature of God; it was, on the contrary, a deviation from this teaching.”—(1956), Vol. XXVII, p. 294L.

John L. McKenzie, S.J., in his Dictionary of the Bible, says: “The trinity of persons within the unity of nature is defined in terms of ‘person’ and ‘nature’ which are G[ree]k philosophical terms; actually the terms do not appear in the Bible. The trinitarian definitions arose as the result of long controversies in which these terms and others such as ‘essence’ and ‘substance’ were erroneously applied to God by some theologians.”—(New York, 1965), p. 899.


For your convenience (as in for everyone who may read this), the previous video I linked:

And here's the full article about John 1:1 from my previous comment (I skipped some details before):

The evidence against the Catholic (pagan) doctrine of the Trinity is too extensive for a few comments on ATS, especially if you're talking about the evidence from the Bible, including Jesus' own words and the teachings he said he had heard from and was taught by his God and Father, Jehovah. (John 8:26-28) Ah well, “Why am I even speaking to you at all?” I'll let Jesus do the talking and explaining why you won't "listen", as Jesus uses the verb below (see footnote). John 8:25-47:

So they began to say to him: “Who are you?” Jesus replied to them: “Why am I even speaking to you at all? 26 I have many things to speak concerning you and to pass judgment on. As a matter of fact, the One who sent me is true, and the very things I heard from him I am speaking in the world.” 27 They did not grasp that he was talking to them about the Father. 28 Jesus then said: “After you have lifted up the Son of man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing of my own initiative; but just as the Father taught me, I speak these things. 29 And the One who sent me is with me; he did not abandon me to myself, because I always do the things pleasing to him.” 30 As he was saying these things, many put faith in him.

31 Then Jesus went on to say to the Jews who had believed him: “If you remain in my word, you are really my disciples, 32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” 33 They [those who didn't believe him] replied to him: “We are Abraham’s offspring* [Lit., “seed.”] and never have been slaves to anyone. How is it you say, ‘You will become free’?” 34 Jesus answered them: “Most truly I say to you, every doer of sin is a slave of sin. 35 Moreover, the slave does not remain in the household forever; the son remains forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be truly free. 37 I know that you are Abraham’s offspring. But you are seeking to kill me, because my word makes no progress among you. 38 I speak the things I have seen while with my Father, but you do the things you have heard from your father.” 39 In answer they said to him: “Our father is Abraham.” Jesus said to them: “If you were Abraham’s children, you would be doing the works of Abraham. 40 But now you are seeking to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do this. 41 You are doing the works of your father.” They said to him: “We were not born from immorality; we have one Father, God.”

42 Jesus said to them: “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I have not come of my own initiative, but that One sent me. 43 Why do you not understand what I am saying? Because you cannot listen to* [Or “accept.”] my word. 44 You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. That one was a murderer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie. 45 Because I, on the other hand, tell you the truth, you do not believe me. 46 Who of you convicts me of sin? If I speak truth, why is it that you do not believe me? 47 The one who is from God listens to the sayings of God. This is why you do not listen, because you are not from God.”

48 In answer the Jews said to him: “Are we not right in saying, ‘You are a Sa·marʹi·tan and have a demon’?” 49 Jesus answered: “I do not have a demon, but I honor my Father, and you dishonor me. 50 But I am not seeking glory for myself; there is One who is seeking and judging. 51 Most truly I say to you, if anyone observes my word, he will never see death at all.” 52 The Jews said to him: “Now we do know that you have a demon. Abraham died, also the prophets, but you say, ‘If anyone observes my word, he will never taste death at all.’ 53 You are not greater than our father Abraham, who died, are you? The prophets also died. Who do you claim to be?” 54 Jesus answered: “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, the one who you say is your God. 55 Yet you have not known him, but I know him. And if I said I do not know him, I would be like you, a liar. But I do know him and am observing his word. 56 Abraham your father rejoiced greatly at the prospect of seeing my day, and he saw it and rejoiced.” 57 Then the Jews said to him: “You are not yet 50 years old, and still you have seen Abraham?” 58 Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, before Abraham came into existence, I have been.” [proper English, not "I Am" as Trinitarian translators like to translate this part, improper syntax because of a rather blatant Trinitarian agenda.] 59 So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid and went out of the temple. (If Trinitarians truly wanted to know "who Jesus really is", quoting the OP, they should listen to Jesus himself. But Jesus already explains here why most won't, and why most don't really want to know that, more than that, "they will not put up with the beneficial teaching" as found in God's word, the Bible, that contradicts 'the doctrines of men' (2Tim 4:3,4; Matt 15:7-9). Regardless if it's Jehovah doing the talking through his firstborn son, Jesus Christ, Col 1:15, or through any of the Bible writers.)

a reply to: whereislogic

I was finally able to watch the video.

My initial insights into the debate and discussion which he presents gave rise to what I have learned about Gnosticism, that claims the God of the Old Testament Yahweh (Yaldabaoth)also known as the Demiurge is the Diety responsible for this World of suffering, Pain and Chaos.

It really is an interesting read, and puts forth the presuppusition that Jesus is the son of the True God (who is outside of time and space in this incarnation) and that Sophia(the Feminine aspect of God)is the True Origin of Christ.

This would, for me at least, clear up the Mysteries of the Holy Trinity as the Holy Spirit would also be repsonsible for the wisdom and insight and other commonalities that affect and translate between All People, Cultures, Fath and Religions....that is to say, the moral code of Community Behvavior, ranging from the more formal Code of Hammurabi from Ancient Babylonia to the mroe simplistic Community Guidelines involving social cooperation, joint child rearing, community organization when it comes to farming and work, etc...etc.

Jesus woudl therefore fall under the cotegroy of what some would call an Ascended Master, (not that I subscribe to such teachings but to each their own)....I still view Jesus as the Son of the One True God and Savior of Mankind because of my personal journey even though I take wisdom from the teachings of others who preach in a similar vein, as Wisdom, Good Works, Charity and the mediation of Suffering are paramount to my personal Life Path.

Anyway, just thought I drop those thoughts into the discussion to see what others had to say on the issue or if I'm alone on this one.

a reply to: GENERAL EYES

Lucifer is the brother of Christ.

And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God should love his brother also. 1 John 4:21

a reply to: tamusan

Lucifer, the Illuminator, God of This World.

Even He has his part to play in the Grand Design.

The Purifying Flame.

a reply to: tamusan

So God has two sons?

I thought Lucifer was allegedly a fallen angel.