Mother Of Ethan Crumbly Found Guilty

I am starting this thread, because the other one went so far off topic.
Verdict

This is what I posted in the other thread, and what I believe is what should be discussed about this case:

I am of 2 minds on this. I do think it sets a dangerous precedent. 90% of the time, there really are just bad kids. Sorry, but it does happen.

But in this case, my god, they really were bad, bad parents. And it has NOTHING to do with taking your kid to a gun range. Any GOOD outdoorsy Michigan parent teaches their child not only how to shoot, but how to respect a gun and what it can do.

But this kid was crying out for help. Multiple times. And the parents aren't the only ones at fault. The school is too. They saw the drawings. They knew there were problems. And they also let it continue.

This was a failure by all the adults in this kids life. So in this case, it was pertinent to charge the parents.
But it could be a slippery slope, that we need to keep an eye on.

Sad case all around.


This case has all the hot button issues. Guns, shootings, mental health and really, bad parenting.

a reply to: chiefsmom

I'm kind of where you are on this. Piss poor parenting, and a whole lot of bad decisions. That should be a crime, but is it?
Then you factor in personal responsibility, and wonder what made this kid think that killing people was a solution to anything. It's a mess, and I really can't see anything good coming from this. As of now, I think it's the wrong ruling, but I totally understand why it happened. (the ruling)

I disagree that 90% of the time there are 'just bad kids'; those bad kids didn't get that way by thenselves. Overindulgent parenting creates as many 'bad kids' as negelectful parenting, IMHO.

I'm glad to see parents finally being charged; I've said for years that would make more sense than a gun ban.

If you have kids and own firearms, no matter how 'good' the kids are, there's NO excuse for not securing your weapons. To not do so is one of the more neglecful things a parent can do in this day and age.

Maybe with a few more of these cases parents will stop living in denial about their childs' problems and start living in fear, to the point they secure all firearms in their home.

a reply to: nugget1

Well, 90% may be a bit high, I was just trying to make a point.
I can only speak to my own experience with my own children. My youngest was born with an issue, that had nothing to do with how he was raised, but apparently mental illness in the family tree.
Turned out, there are no drugs to even treat this. Thankfully, he didn't go "too" bad. He could have, and yes, I do believe that part was partially due to parenting.
And we do have a lot of kids, that don't seem to have any "empathy" for life, human or otherwise. Something is broken. We need to figure it out, and quick.

As for the guns. Yes, I guess they should be locked up, especially with young children.
And as much as I will probably get roasted for this, here is the one thing that worked for me. (not saying it was good, or that it will work for all kids.)
I was taught to shoot at a young age. We were threatened with a serious beating if we touched them with no parent at home. (We NEVER did)
But once when out shooting, just with a bb gun, I shot a bird that was close to a target. On purpose. I went over to it, looked at it. Somehow it hit, right then, that I took a life for no reason. I bawled my eyes out, and my dad and I had the first of many talks, about when and why to kill an animal.
While I don't want a bunch of kids out killing birds just to learn a lesson, I think you understand my point.

a reply to: chiefsmom

As lving near them...the area...and attitudes are...well...horse farms. The town, sweet. The people, great. She was in that kinda well to do crowd. In a small rural town.

Shame. The kids home alone, while she grooms her horses. And regardless, she appears absolutely clueless.

I was ready to start rage typing when I saw this all over Social Media earlier, but with all things considered, the parents do hold some of the blame here...

Do I think guns should be locked up around kids? Yes and no. I'll leave it at that, and invite any argument as to why or why not.

In THIS case, it would've been a resounding YES. Having the knowledge that your child is the way they are, that would be a definite yes. Should the parents have bought the child their own firearm? Hell to the no.

I think it sets a very bad precedent, and the ruling is wrong based on the charges, but I do agree that the parents were partially at fault and should've suffered some consequences. Manslaughter? Not so much.

My next question is the school - the warnings, drawings, flags that were sent up.... they knew he was capable of something, at the very least wanted to do something. They did next to nothing as well. Where's their charge(s) of manslaughter?

EDIT TO ADD:

I was just talking to an attorney about all of this and he had mentioned that the kid was tried as an adult, and for some reason it took him saying that out loud for it to click in my brain - how can he be tried as an adult, yet his mother ALSO be tried as his parent/guardian? The more I think about it, the more wrong it all seems.

wow, her life is done

a reply to: dothedew

I didn't realize that, about the "adult". So yeah, that does seem weird.
I wonder if that will give her grounds for an appeal?

a reply to: mysterioustranger

It may be a small town, but it is not rural.
It is part of the metro Detroit sprawl.
Not like some small and isolated town in the UP.
Rural???? The "parents" knew enough about Detroit to hide out in an abandoned building in SE Detroit.

Her attorney asked if she felt she was the victim....and TBH....she hesitated WAY TOO LONG to answer.
Says a lot.
It should have been an immediate....
NO!!!!

a reply to: DontTreadOnMe

Sad case, sad parents, but the blood is on their hands. Guilty as Hell.

What were they thinking?

a reply to: chiefsmom

I'm rather torn on this.


The parents certainly should bear some responsibility. But manslaughter, that is tying them directly to someone else' actions.

ETA:

And thanks for making a coherent thread, much appreciated.

Think this sets all sorts of unintended precedents. If you extrapolate out from this decision it could become a monster.

originally posted by: nugget1


If you have kids and own firearms, no matter how 'good' the kids are, there's NO excuse for not securing your weapons. To not do so is one of the more neglecful things a parent can do in this day and age.

This

I feel like she neglected him. It seems he reached out and was crying out but she was too busy. That happens. But that mixed with such a lax attitude about guns just to appease your son and spoil him so you could go play with your “horses”? No.

This may set a dangerous precedent. But is that more dangerous than a kid with issues and unsecured guns in the house?

a reply to: chiefsmom

we do have a lot of kids, that don't seem to have any "empathy" for life, human or otherwise. Something is broken.

Kids aren't born with empathy; it's something they learn by example.

Show me a bad kid and I'll show you a kid crying for help, excluding the above example where overly-indulged kids get to run the streets, join gangs, get into all the accompanining activities while their parents bail them out of every jamb they get into and believe every lie their little darlings tell them.

Parents are no longer allowed to spank their kids, but nobody has ever taught them how to parent without the board of education. Far too many have no parenting skills,except love for their children which is far too often blind to the dangers in their development.

Very few hardcore criminals got that way because of a brain defect; it's usually the result of emotional/physical/sexual abuse and piss poor parenting.......because people don't know any better, or just don't want to do the extra work good parenting requires. And, yes, there would still be bad apples-but I believe the nnumbers would be greatly reduced.

I have preached on this, to make parents accountable for the actions of their criminal children. Since this sets a legal precedent, let’s start going after the parents of kids in gangs who kill innocent bystanders, or their victims of their crime sprees. Whether it be a mugging, carjacking or straight up murder, make parents accountable for their little thug life children.

Some people are saying this is wrong, but I am here to tell you, if you do this to the parents of the thug life crowd, pretty soon, the gang and gun problems we have go away pretty fast. a reply to: chiefsmom

To those here who want to charge parents for whatever the child does, get your heads out of the sand. The Nanny State has been systematically removing parental rights and authority and replacing with its own agendas. The State has decided that schools can gender transition children without even their parents knowledge or consent. The State has allowed antifa and gangs to loot and burn entire cities without justice, while using its resources to go after the very people who want true law and order. I say let the State take responsibility for its own abuses of power on everyone’s lives, instead of creating the problems and using that as a pretext for more control over our lives.
I would entreat all of us to study this further, the State cannot take away parental rights and authority and then usurp that authority itself then charge the parents with the crimes. Our children are in so much trouble, with the State and its “Educators” molding all of our children into the casting it wants itself.
A few years back, I was studying some of the educational agendas in Common Core, and someone brought books to our study group which showed boy heads on girl bodies and vice versa. This has been happening and do you not realize the gender transition agenda was started much sooner than you thought? I’m talking 2015 when I saw these books. Society is drugging our children and mutilating their bodies without even parental knowledge, and who knows what what the schools put into this kids head.
That said, every person born into this world has his or her own momentums from past lives even back to the days of Atlantis for some.
Also, I want to remind everyone here that when candidate BO was asked at the Saddleback forum what were the biggest issues to him, and replied that it was parental abuse. He was already waging war with the parents by the State then. Remember, he also voted against saving babies who were still alive after botched abortions.
There are Satanic factions which have been allowed to take control. So this is what we’ve got now..
It is so tragic what is happening, and yet it’s the result of some of the very liberal ideas that many had about parenting, in previous years. What tragedies will we see in the future as a result of lack true understanding and lack embracing true virtues.
I wonder why those who espouse the Nanny State totalitarian system are the very ones who, like Freud, just say it’s the mother’s fault.
As a society, we need to protect the youth. Hie can we do that when society pushes so many radical ideas on the very children we should cherish and support?
All of that said, I have subsequently discovered that the parents bought the gun …..I’m studying this more before saying too much else.
I would reiterate, the Deep State has created and shakes a godless society. This is the result overall. As a society we need to see what is happening.

a reply to: chiefsmom

Somewhat locally a middle aged father was shot and then beheaded by his 30ish son. Who then posted the grisly results online for several hours before it was taken off.
The Dad was an environmentalist for the government and worked for the Army Corps Of Engineers. His son was suing the government over student loan debt and was a frustrated musical artist and writer and sued his former employer over sexual discrimination in his firing. He posted a manifesto about Biden and militias with the video and had purchased a firearm just before the killing. Many said this looked like a staged MK Ultra psyop. Possibly. Probably.
So was this bad parenting?

a reply to: Owlwatcher

I’m inclined to believe it’s the staged psyop myself, from the sound of it.
The State has become totalitarian.

So this is definitely setting a precedent for convicting parents forget their children do.

Now, with a conviction against Crumbley, what parents do or fail to do will come under further scrutiny and potentially lead to more criminal prosecutions, some legal experts contend, and not solely for cases of mass shootings. "The theory of, 'Hey, if the parents were better parents, this wouldn’t have happened,' I can easily see prosecutors using that," said Michael Bullotta, a former federal prosecutor-turned-defense lawyer in Detroit.

Crumbley and her husband, James, helped his son buy a semi-automatic handgun as an early Christmas gift just days before the shooting;

www.nbcnews.com...