Life on Venus ? - Phosphine Spotted in the Planet's Clouds Again

In September 2020 it was reported there had been a detection of phosphine , a biosignature , in the clouds of Venus , much debate ensued but the gas couldn't be found again , undeterred the team who made the discovery kept looking and their persistence eventually paid off , the team used the James Clark Maxwell Telescope in Hawaii to look deeper into the cloud layers to make their second Phosphine discovery.

Now there's a new twist. Speaking at the Royal Astronomical Society's National Astronomy Meeting 2023 in Cardiff this week, Greaves revealed the discovery of phosphine deeper in the atmosphere of Venus than it had been spotted before. Using the James Clark Maxwell Telescope (JCMT) at the Mauna Kea Observatory in Hawaii, Greaves and her colleagues delved into the atmosphere of Venus, down to the top and even the middle of the planet's clouds.

The team thinks that the phosphine could be coming from lower in Venus' atmosphere. But, as Greaves pointed out in the talk, the real question is, What does the phosphine mean? Could it be evidence of alien life on Venus?
Greaves said that, on Earth, phosphine is generated by microorganisms living in a very low-oxygen environment. She explained that phosphine is generally not made in other ways on our planet, as Earth lacks an abundance of "loose" hydrogen. This suggests that phosphine, if detected on other worlds, is a potential biosignature.
www.space.com...

Here be Venusians.


The harsh conditions on Venus probably means there's no life at the surface of the Planet but it's long been thought life could exist in the cloud layers where temperatures are lower suspended by the thick clouds , even if it's only microbial life it's life.

It's thought Venus once had a more Earth like habitat before its cataclysm occurred so the discovery of life there would have a knock on effect for the question of life on Mars as it too was more Earth like in its past.

I think we will find our Solar System is teaming with life it's just that we can't see it yet.

a reply to: gortex

Many thanks for this.

This sort of stuff is why I first joined ATS.

Interesting news.

She explained that phosphine is generally not made in other ways on our planet, as Earth lacks an abundance of "loose" hydrogen.

Too bad she wasn't clearer about it.

"Generally not made" doesn't mean there's no other way of producing phosphine on Earth, so I suppose there are other, non-biological way of producing it.

a reply to: ArMaP

I'm no expert, but I understood that phosphines can be produced by non organic processes such as heat and high pressure?

a reply to: gortex

I'm disappointed but not unsurprised. The OP and the quotes from the article left out one telling point. But yet that point is an indication of how we are slowly being forced fed details about how the Universe, and even Mars, was once alive.

But don't get your hopes up that phosphene trace means anything about life on Venus. The average temp on Venus is 864F. and 462C. That is hot enough to melt lead.

So if they were not wanting us to innocently get our hopes ups for life up there, they really should have mentioned these facts somewhere in the news release. Maybe the tapes have been erased from the Soviet probes that returned those high temps before they melted and failed shortly after landing. Those attempts were back in the 1960s.

a reply to: gortex

I'm willing to bet we don't have to go that much beyond Vega to find the next multicellular life. My belief is this universe is FULL of biological life, because organic compounds are more ubiquitous and way easier to form than previously thought. Even if it's 99% simple life to 1% complex life.

They speculate Glycine is created in dense dust clouds in space. Wouldn't doubt if panspermia is unnecessary because it forms everywhere stars form. And therein everywhere there is a dense soup medium to form.

It's beyond arrogant to think this planet is that special or alone. For all this planet knows there really is a Federation out there we are still far too "Type 0 Civilization" to belong to. Perhaps they have a "one world planet" requirement? Or a "be able to send people past your own orbit" requirement?

I really don't need confirmation either. I have faith in Earth being just another habitable planet in the Orion Arm of the Greater Milky Way Galactic Habitable Zone.

originally posted by: ArMaP
Interesting news.

She explained that phosphine is generally not made in other ways on our planet, as Earth lacks an abundance of "loose" hydrogen.

Too bad she wasn't clearer about it.

"Generally not made" doesn't mean there's no other way of producing phosphine on Earth, so I suppose there are other, non-biological way of producing it.

Phosphine is made industrially from white phosphorus by hydrolysis with an alkali metal hydroxide or an aqueous acid–catalyzed disproportionation reaction. The industrial product is normally shipped as liquefied gas.

acs.org
acs.org

So is that suggesting it's either bio made or there is industry on Venus... Hahaha

a reply to: Observer19

I'm disappointed but not unsurprised. The OP and the quotes from the article left out one telling point. But yet that point is an indication of how we are slowly being forced fed details about how the Universe, and even Mars, was once alive.

We are not being force fed anything , it's a niche discovery interesting to only a few.
As we build better machines we find more stuff , this is just another example of an ongoing process.

But don't get your hopes up that phosphene trace means anything about life on Venus. The average temp on Venus is 864F. and 462C. That is hot enough to melt lead.

Which was alluded to in the OP , what was stated is life could exist in Venus's thick atmosphere where the temperatures are cooler and food supplies would be available.

originally posted by: Observer19
a reply to: gortex

I'm disappointed but not unsurprised. The OP and the quotes from the article left out one telling point. But yet that point is an indication of how we are slowly being forced fed details about how the Universe, and even Mars, was once alive.

But don't get your hopes up that phosphene trace means anything about life on Venus. The average temp on Venus is 864F. and 462C. That is hot enough to melt lead.

So if they were not wanting us to innocently get our hopes ups for life up there, they really should have mentioned these facts somewhere in the news release. Maybe the tapes have been erased from the Soviet probes that returned those high temps before they melted and failed shortly after landing. Those attempts were back in the 1960s.

Maybe they’re planning to scare everyone about climate change by pointing to these planets and saying if we don’t pay taxes and accept their control we end up like this? If only those Martians had ULEZ and 20 mph zones. If only they’d listened to little Venusian Greta and her warnings.

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed
So is that suggesting it's either bio made or there is industry on Venus... Hahaha

Obviously not.

Apparently, the reason they are suspecting a biological source for the phosphine is that they cannot find a way of producing phosphine in the amounts found on Venus by a non-biological process, based on what we know about phosphine production on Earth.

But the fact is that we do not know that much about natural phosphine production on Earth.

originally posted by: Degradation33
a reply to: gortex

I'm willing to bet we don't have to go that much beyond Vega to find the next multicellular life. My belief is this universe is FULL of biological life, because organic compounds are more ubiquitous and way easier to form than previously thought. Even if it's 99% simple life to 1% complex life.

They speculate Glycine is created in dense dust clouds in space. Wouldn't doubt if panspermia is unnecessary because it forms everywhere stars form. And therein everywhere there is a dense soup medium to form.

It's beyond arrogant to think this planet is that special or alone. For all this planet knows there really is a Federation out there we are still far too "Type 0 Civilization" to belong to. Perhaps they have a "one world planet" requirement? Or a "be able to send people past your own orbit" requirement?

I really don't need confirmation either. I have faith in Earth being just another habitable planet in the Orion Arm of the Greater Milky Way Galactic Habitable Zone.

Actually what I think is going on here is similar to the Star Trek Next Generation episode Justice.

I think we're being watched over by a powerful and extremely advanced intelligence that we referred to as "GOD" or "Gods" in the past. And like in the STNG episode if anything comes by they get a polite warning to stay away. The purpose of all this? Possibly this may be a nursery and we're in the process of becoming "gods" ourselves. But it's simply too early in the process for us simple humans to figure out their purpose yet.

I think we will find our Solar System is teaming with life it's just that we can't see it yet.

To be honest. I think we are the only dumb civilisation that lives on the surface of their planet.. always thought others live inside their planet.

a reply to: gortex

To quote Shakespeare “There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.”

Hamlet

Just because Phosphine is produced by organic methods on earth doesnt mean cant be produced by other means on different planets