Five Gospel Forgeries

What you are saying is " What if The Greatest Story ever told is in reality
The Greatest Story ever SOLD"?

Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente
Wouldn't it be interesting if the Legend of Christ's Divinity came from Pagans that were Absorbed into the Church - i.e. Christ really = Hercules, Mars (Horus), Dionysus, Osiris, Krishna & so on!

It would be interesting, but if it happened, it would be a fairly later development. As I understand it, the issue of Jesus being divine wasn't resolved fully until 300 AD. Earlier beliefs were that he was resurrected but was human.

These were later grafted onto Jesus - which worked out because he was really such a LIBERAL Rabbi - full of Controversial Teachings - be accepting of Women & Different Races & Religions - Love each other & stuff (While still being Essentially Jewish) - isn't that what Christianity really is after all?

Traditions don't paint him as a rabbi (I believe that under Jewish law, rabbis MUST be married) and he would have been somewhat less liberal than your average Roman (he didn't preach acceptances of different races and religions -- he wanted everyone worshipping as he said they should (otherwise the fires of hell) whereas Romans welcomed other gods and often added them to their pantheons.)

My knowledge of Jewish history and culture isn't broad... perhaps someone can address the range of treatment of women and others in Jewish culture at the time?

Quote: "Traditions don't paint him as a Rabbi - I believe that under Jewish Law Rabbis MUST be Married".

I Don't want to get all "DaVinci Code" on you - but he very well could have been - Women Surrounded his Ministry (and Life in General) after all! Traditions are a POOR Source of Acurate Information! I geuss is all depends on what you Imagine "Rabbi" to mean - a Rabbi from 2000 Years ago was prob pretty different from a Modern Rabbi! Mary Magdalene was also a "WHORE" according to Tradition!

Quote: "he would have been somewhat less Liberal than your average Roman - he didn't preach acceptances of different Races and Religions - he wanted everyone Worshipping as he said they should otherwise the Fires of Hell."

***I VEHMITALLY DISAGREE***! Jesus was no Fundamentalist – he was a MYSTIC & a Prophet! First of all if there was something that was Radically Changed about Jesus’ Teachings by Early Jewish & Greek & Roman Christians AFTER Jesus’ Death - I believe that it was turning a Doctrine of Peace & Tolerance into a Doctrine of WAR & Death to Non-Conformists! I Believe Jesus was a PACIFIST!!! I also believe that Jesus’ take on Judaism was Definitely more Open than the likes of the Strict Sadducee "Lawyer Rabbis" who Criticized him & he Them! I feel that his Teachings were VERY much Influenced by the Likes of Zoroastrianism & Buddhism! The Essenes were this kind of Reclusive Gnostic Judaic Sect - Jesus may have very well been a Member of that Sect that decided to take the Message of the "Kingdom of Heaven" to a Larger Public Audience - we all know what the End Result of that was!

[edit on 13-4-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

I'm still waiting to hear how these gospels got introduced into the Morman scriptures or teachings or whatever- Did I miss it?

Jesus and Christianity were commercialized and promoted for political reasons since day 1, I don't see why it should be any different now.

As for the bible being the word of GOD- seems, the rules change with every century- kind of like American law- some rules just don't get enforced-

Originally posted by Seraphim_SerpenteI Don't want to get all "DaVinci Code" on you - but he very well could have been - Women Surrounded his Ministry (and Life in General) after all! Traditions are a POOR Source of Acurate Information!

"Traditions" here mean the Talmud and the Jewish laws.

I geuss is all depends on what you Imagine "Rabbi" to mean - a Rabbi from 2000 Years ago was prob pretty different from a Modern Rabbi!

I meant "rabbi" as in the manner that the Jews of that day would have understood it, in accordance with their laws which were, at that point, written down.

Jesus was no Fundamentalist – he was a MYSTIC & a Prophet!

Mystic... probably not. He doesn't use any of the Jewish mysticism references. Prophet, yes, he certainly is painted as one. The correct title is probably, "religious teacher" (according to the Bible.)

I believe that it was turning a Doctrine of Peace & Tolerance into a Doctrine of WAR & Death to Non-Conformists! I Believe Jesus was a PACIFIST!!!

The Bible disagrees with you. Whether or not you consider this significant is something only you can decide.

I also believe that Jesus’ take on Judaism was Definitely more Open than the likes of the Strict Sadducee "Lawyer Rabbis" who Criticized him & he Them! I feel that his Teachings were VERY much Influenced by the Likes of Zoroastrianism & Buddhism! The Essenes were this kind of Reclusive Gnostic Judaic Sect - Jesus may have very well been a Member of that Sect that decided to take the Message of the "Kingdom of Heaven" to a Larger Public Audience - we all know what the End Result of that was!

If you'll read the article on the five false gospels (not the ones of the Bible... the other five) you'll see that these have been proven false -- by Christians who are able to read the original Greek and Hebrew documents.

There are a number of religious philosophies that sprang up from the "Five False Gospels" and a number of channeled books and documents. They satisfy people's need to have the religion updated by presenting "channeled" books and teachings. But they're really not consistant with the original Biblical documents and the documents of the early Church.

Quote: "The Bible Disagrees with you."

Come on man - don't you Realize how much the so-called "Bible" has been Edited & Messed with & Manipulated & Mis-Interpreted over the Years! Anyone who has actually read the thing & has a Working Brain in their head could figure that out! Do you realize how many Threads there are on ATS dealing with his Topic of Biblical Inconsistence alone? Please be more Specific next time that you Refer to the "Bible"!

Quote: "If you'll read the article on the Five False Gospels (not the ones of the Bible... the other five) you'll see that these have been proven false -- by Christians who are able to read the original Greek and Hebrew documents."

Proven "False" by Whom? I will really pour over that article & get back to you! There are 4 Gospels in the Canonized New Testament (Matthew, Luke, Mark & John). The Gospel of Thomas has already been Proven to be AUTHENTIC. As for others like Philip & so on - they are still being Analyzed!

As for the "Aquarian Gospel" - that is obviously some New Age stuff written by "Dr. Levi H. Dowling (1844-1911)" - hardly Ancient or Authentic! But as for some of the other stuff found at "Nag Hamadi" - Serious Research is still on going!

Quote: "There are a number of Religious Philosophies that sprang up from the "Five False Gospels" and a number of channeled books and documents."

I believe that you are talking about "Gnosticism". In my experience there are a Multitude of ways that you can Interpret & Practice "Christianity". There are Numerous Sects or "Churches" in Christianity! Who are you to say that any one Interpretation is "False" or "Incorrect"? Has the Thought Occurred to you that certain Churches were also Vying for POLITICAL POWER? Would this explain why one Church would want to take out another Church? Would you care to explain to me why the Inquisitions & Crusades (Backed by the RCC) would want to MURDER the Gnostic CHRISTIANS & JEWS (and Moslems while they were at it) all over the world - Calling them Witches & Destroying their Scriptures? For what purpose other than plain old Domination (We are the only REAL Church & so on) - Roman Empire style - only this time in the name of Religion & Saving your Soul!


[edit on 14-4-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 14-4-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente
Quote: "The Bible Disagrees with you."

Come on man - don't you Realize how much the so-called "Bible" has been Edited & Messed with & Manipulated & Mis-Interpreted over the Years! Anyone who has actually read the thing & has a Working Brain in their head could figure that out! Do you realize how many Threads there are on ATS dealing with his Topic of Biblical Inconsistence alone? Please be more Specific next time that you Refer to the "Bible"!

Well, since you semed to come from an ultra-Christian reference, I assumed you were preaching the truth about Jesus using the Biblical references and scriptures, yet?

If this is the case, then your source material disagrees with your conclusions. If you are not using the Bible to construct your picture of Jesus then whatever source material you have may be consistant with your belief but niether is consistant with Christian theology.

There are 4 Gospels in the Canonized New Testament (Matthew, Luke, Mark & John). The Gospel of Thomas has already been Proven to be AUTHENTIC.

Nobody disputes this.

However, IF you had read the article that I linked to in my opening statement you would recognize that the material that WE are currently discussing in this thread is the material in the first post's link. They were called "gospels" and they are modern forgeries.

I repeat: we are not discussing any gospel printed in any current version of the Bible They're forgeries and they're interesting because they became foundational texts for many cults.

Quote: "There are a number of Religious Philosophies that sprang up from the "Five False Gospels" and a number of channeled books and documents."

I believe that you are talking about "Gnosticism".

If you had read the article that I linked to in my opening statement you would understand that in fact, I am not referring to Gnosticism.

Who are you to say that any one Interpretation is "False" or "Incorrect"?

If you had read the article that I linked to in my opening statement, you would have read that Bible scholars and numerous Bible experts proclaimed these interpretations false.

Has the Thought Occurred to you that certain Churches were also Vying for POLITICAL POWER? Would this explain why one Church would want to take out another Church? Would you care to explain to me why the Inquisitions & Crusades (Backed by the RCC) would want to MURDER the Gnostic CHRISTIANS & JEWS (and Moslems while they were at it) all over the world - Calling them Witches & Destroying their Scriptures? For what purpose other than plain old Domination (We are the only REAL Church & so on) - Roman Empire style - only this time in the name of Religion & Saving your Soul!

I think you're getting your histories a little tangled there -- the Jews and Gnostics were never called Witches nor were the Moslems.... and so forth.

You might try reading the material that we are discussing... it was linked in the first post.

Quote: "Well since you seem to come from an Ultra-Christian."

Well a do consider myself a Christian - I have also Studied & Practiced Buddhism & Applied Science - I am more of a Mystic than anything else! I am certainly not a Fundamentalist or an "Evangelical" - I do
*NOT PUSH* my beliefs onto others!

Quote: "If you had read the article that I linked to in my opening statement, you would have read that Bible scholars and numerous Bible experts proclaimed these interpretations false."

I did go back & read the Article that you linked BTW! Sorry I don't subscribe to the "Follower & Joiner" Mentality! I don't need a Priest or a Rabbi to Interpret things for me & tell me what to Think & Believe (my Brain is just as good as theirs) - that is *MY OWN BUSINESS*! I Interpret things as I choose & Think Freely & for my Self! Even if someone else wants to call it "False" - doesn't bother me in the least!

There certainly are Forgeries of the Things of the Ancient World that can be found in World today. But to say that we currently know *EVERYTHING* about the Ancient World when say the "Nag Hamadi" &
"Dead Sea Scrolls" Scriptures were only found like 50 Years ago & shed a whole *NEW LIGHT* on our Ancient Traditions - That is just plain Egotistical! Many of these Recently discovered scriptures are indeed Authentic! This leads me to believe that PLENTY of Manipulation took place along the way - Religion & Politics seemed to be Permanently joined at the hip!

And speaking of that - you know I was watching Fox News Channels coverage of the Pope's Funeral not to long ago & some Wise Guy says the following: "We now know that Pope John Paul II will be Buried underneath the Vatican along with other Popes - Including the FIRST POPE, St. Peter".

Wow now that sure is Interesting! Let me tell you what REALLY happened when the likes of St. Peter &
St. Paul traveled from Judea to Rome & began to preach of "Jesus Christ" to the Pagan Romans there - they were *TORTURED & then KILLED*! One of them was even Crucified Upside Down - which he Requested out of Respect for Jesus! Early Christians in Rome were Regularly Fed to the Lions in the Coliseum!

Rome only Converted to so-called Christianity AFTER Emperor Constantine stared winning Wars! He had a Vision of a Cross & when Crosses were actually brought into the Battles they Started Winning! Emperor Constantine was actually the "FIRST POPE" - they did a 180 Degree turn around! The Cover Up that followed is still going on today -> "Oh Yeah St. Peter we Loved that Guy when he came here, we threw a Big Party for him! His Homey Jesus - now that guy is Numero Uno"!

Who are the Liars now? All roads seem to lead to Rome! P.S. Jesus also had *BROWN SKIN* - he looked very much like an Arab who lived under the Blazing Sun of the Desert – ALL of the *Original Jews* back then had Brown Skin BTW – I don’t know who that Lilly White guy that the RCC keeps pimping is – Probably Apollo or Something! Conspiracy anyone?

You need to brush up on your Medieval History my Friend!


[edit on 14-4-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

Interesting the called St. Peter remains have not been proven and on top of that the same year that the supposed remains (it was more than one) were found under the basilica (if you dig in ancient Rome you find plenty of human remains) In Jerusalem in mount of Olives is claim that St. Peters remains were found also alone with other people from the bible.

So is like you said, politics has a lot to do with Religion.

Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente
Who are the Liars now? All roads seem to lead to Rome! P.S. Jesus also had *BROWN SKIN* - he looked very much like an Arab who lived under the Blazing Sun of the Desert – ALL of the *Original Jews* back then had Brown Skin BTW – I don’t know who that Lilly White guy that the RCC keeps pimping is – Probably Apollo or Something! Conspiracy anyone?

Your enthuisasm for your own religion is wonderful... but I'm not sure this is the place to prosteletyze it particularly when it's so off-topic for what people are talking about in this thread.

This forged gospel material is interesting to me. I read someone talking about Urantia in another thread -- I'm assuming this is another cult, too?

I think it would be interesting to list some of these documents and when they were forged and what groups use these documents. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm suspicious of anything that's "Channeled" or "divinely inspired" (I see them as the same thing.)

Originally posted by Indellkoffer
This forged gospel material is interesting to me. I read someone talking about Urantia in another thread -- I'm assuming this is another cult, too?

Yes I have a link to it, given to me by another member, I started to read them but they are a littler bit tedious and you have to be very open minded to absorb what they are trying to teach.

www.urantia.org...

A Brief Description of The Urantia Book...

The Urantia Book, first published by the Urantia Foundation in 1955, was authored by celestial beings as a special revelation to our planet, Urantia.


The book's message is that all human beings are one family, the sons and daughters of one God, the Universal Father. It instructs on the genesis, history, and destiny of mankind and on our relationship with God. It also presents a unique and compelling portrayal of the life and teachings of Jesus, opening new vistas of time and eternity, and revealing new concepts of Man's ever-ascending adventure of finding the Universal Father in our friendly and carefully administered universe.

Perhaps a new thread will be good to discuss the Urantia teachings compare to the bible ones.