Gitmo tribunal president: 'I don't care about international law'

Originally posted by verfed
America is international law! Now before you say that was the most arrogant quote you have ever read please just think about it. Who won World War II? Who won the Cold war? Who emerged in the 21st century as the worlds only superpower?

America didn't win WWII, the allied nations did. The USSR did most of the fighting. The collapse of the USSR had more to do with Gorbachev's democratic reforms and a lack of economic reform in 60s, 70s and early 80s. The economy stagnated while living standards rose. The system eventually wasn't able to meet the demands of the people.

The question is who will emerge in the 22nd century as the worlds greatest power?

thanks,
drfunk




[edit on 10-4-2005 by drfunk]

Once we disobey one law whats to stop us disobeying a second one?
Or another?
Laws and rules are there for a reason...

Yes they are but we don't make one set of laws and stick with them forever(unless they are our most basic laws), laws change as the world around us also changes. Therefore we should make new laws that are more helpful in dealing with this new situation that has arisen.

Also its kind of early to predict who will be a superpower in the 22nd century we might have multiple superpowers or non at all, who knows its to early to tell.

LA Max/WP,

If the US is no longer going to live by the rule of law then I am going to start arresting every American tourist I see here in Scotland and lock them in my shed.

I was going to say I would get them to wear stupid looking orange jumpsuits but what they tend to wear here is far stupider looking.

Furthmore, when the Chinese come a calling I hope we will not hear your usual whines about business laws or restrictive practices and tariffs.

I am sure you will just rollover and say well "might is right", and you Chinese folks have the might and therefore must be right.

Cheers

BHR

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Yes they are but we don't make one set of laws and stick with them forever(unless they are our most basic laws), laws change as the world around us also changes. Therefore we should make new laws that are more helpful in dealing with this new situation that has arisen.

Also its kind of early to predict who will be a superpower in the 22nd century we might have multiple superpowers or non at all, who knows its to early to tell.

Thers a diffrence between "changeing" and "breaking" them...

DW,

Well said.

WP is talking about changing the laws but what is to stop them breaking them when they do not fit, as they are now.

Cheers

BHR

Most nations are in violation of more than one international law at a given time.

All of the major economic powers routinely break "international law" on a whim. Amnesty International routinely accuses developed nations of violating the rights of their prison populations, which is a total hoot if you have ever seen the inside of a 3rd world "jail."

It is a mistake for the US and its military to play too fast and loose with international opinion; at the same time it is also true that nations pick and choose what portions of treaties they will choose to obey.

One could even make the argument that Iran and Iraq never signed on to the more recent rounds of "Geneva Conventions" on the Law of Land Warfare, and so their agents are hardly in a position to appeal to a code of conduct that their states had previously refused to abide by.

Certainly, Saddam was in violation of UN orders brokering the cease-fire agreement. Technically, the US is in Iraq to enforce that same original cease-fire of 1991. Saddam had previously agreed to weapons inspectors when he surrendered in 1991. Expelling them was "casus belli," a justification for war. The UN said so itself in 2000 and 2002. So it is commonplace in the international arena for all sorts of states (including the UK) to be in violation of detainees' civil rights.

Weren't some IRA prisoners held in Scottish Jails, back in the 70's and 80's?
With the UK's chequered past regarding civil rights for minorities, it's ironic to see a UK citizen lecturing others on the treatment of detainees.

At least the detainees at Guantanamo Bay GET A TRIAL. Check out this Amensty International article about the British law denying the right of trial to "suspected terrorists:"

news.amnesty.org...

If you plan to lock up American tourists in Scotland, apparently you have a body of law there already waiting to assist you.

Yeah our government did terrible things during the troubles...we complain about them....do you know that people can be held just for being "under suspicion"?
If you want bad look up what we did inside northern ireland....wasnt pretty or good.
The fact is we care about our troops doing this , why else would we punish our own troops for commiting crimes against iraqi's?

DW,

I guess that is the difference between the US and the UK. Despite the atrocities carried out by the IRA, when the forces of law and order acted badly we, the public, were outraged.

In the US when the forces of law and order act badly the public are cheering them on (for examples see the word of LA_Max and WestPoint)

Cheers

BHR

Originally posted by BillHicksRules
DW,

I guess that is the difference between the US and the UK. Despite the atrocities carried out by the IRA, when the forces of law and order acted badly we, the public, were outraged.

In the US when the forces of law and order act badly the public are cheering them on (for examples see the word of LA_Max and WestPoint)

Thats a bit harsh...
I mean we are all entiltled to our opinions and LA and west point are strong believers in vengance..hence the eye for an eye idea.
Many americans are angry at what thier soldiers do nearly 50% of the country....if 9/11 hadnt happened this might have been diffrent.

DW,

I guess we will have to disagree on this one, although I do find your continual apologising for WP rather concerning. I would have thought he/she is old enough to look after themself.

Cheers

BHR

Originally posted by BillHicksRules
I guess that is the difference between the US and the UK. Despite the atrocities carried out by the IRA, when the forces of law and order acted badly we, the public, were outraged.

Can you honestly say that 100% of the public was outraged? That would be quite a claim. Besides, the IRA didn't carry out any attacks on the level of 9/11, the good folks in the UK have never watched 3,000 of their countrymen die along with the collapse of any of their most symbolic monuments live on TV, so it's unfair to measure their reactions with ours. However, I don't feel, as I know I wouldn't, that the victims of 9/11 would want more innocent people to die on their behalf.

I don't see that DW is apologizing for anybody, only that he understands human nature, and the fact that some, in all nations, handle fear and uncertainty by lashing out irrationally. It's just in their genetics I suppose.

And Bill Hicks does rule.

Originally posted by BillHicksRules
I guess we will have to disagree on this one, although I do find your continual apologising for WP rather concerning. I would have thought he/she is old enough to look after themself.

Well I hope we can respect one another on this point.
On the point of me "apologiseing" for WP I have to say I'm trying to play peacekeeper and balance the scales here..
Besides he has his opinion and infact shockingly some of his ideals are the same as mine but I say this only in a quiet voice and very quickly....

Originally posted by 27jd
And Bill Hicks does rule.

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Yeah Right, I keep waiting for Hicks to make a common-sense answer, but Im not gonna hold my breath.

Heres your problem Hicks...Your angry because "your kind" is finished in America. Your all washed up, we're on to you.....last election you got hit hard and its gonna get worse.

The Democrats twisted sense of "values" is not accepted by most regular Americans and the only way the Democrats can push their agenda on the rest of us is thru the international courts. The Democrats are pushing for the US to give up her soverignty to the SICK, TWISTED, CORRUPT International Courts....and it won't happen.

Not while "my Kind" lives. These Terrorist Punks we have locked up are gonna HANG....you hear me? Hang!! Theres not a Damn thing you can do about it....

Maximu§

Originally posted by 27jd
Besides, the IRA didn't carry out any attacks on the level of 9/11, the good folks in the UK have never watched 3,000 of their countrymen die along with the collapse of any of their most symbolic monuments live on TV, so it's unfair to measure their reactions with ours.

- No we just had 3500+ of our people killed in a long drawn out 30yr terrorist 'war' (and considering the size of our population that was a much bigger proportion of our people killed, right?) which reached across all of Ireland and Briton and roused the barbarian from many of our young people.

Hmmm, the IRA (and all the rest) and the 'war in the north' eh?

I don't believe in one side totally in the right and one totally in the wrong ('Ireland' has gone on waaaaaay too long for any such notions to hold much water IMO) but it is kind of ironic that until very recently that was terrorism many Americans felt perfectly at ease with and happy about, eh?

(maybe some still do?)

Originally posted by LA_Maximus

Originally posted by 27jd
And Bill Hicks does rule.

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Yeah Right, I keep waiting for Hicks to make a common-sense answer, but Im not gonna hold my breath.

Dude, Bill Hicks is an extremely funny comedian who makes jokes of a political nature, and I'm assuming that is not the ATS member's real name.

Heres your problem Hicks...Your angry because "your kind" is finished in America. Your all washed up, we're on to you.....last election you got hit hard and its gonna get worse.

I'm sure the member is okay with that, being as he/she is NOT American.






[edit on 11-4-2005 by 27jd]

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
- No we just had 3500+ of our people killed in a long drawn out 30yr terrorist 'war' (and considering the size of our population that was a much bigger proportion of our people killed, right?) which reached across all of Ireland and Briton and roused the barbarian from many of our young people.

I'm sure you know more about this than I do, but I'm saying it didn't happen all in one day, on live TV for everybody in the UK to see and wonder what the hell was happening. And again I state I don't believe that makes it right to go on a rampage, I was just making a point about the sudden, unexpected terror, and it's effects on the psyches of some. That's all. I wasn't trying to discount the terrorism of the IRA.

but it is kind of ironic that until very recently that was terrorism many Americans felt perfectly at ease with and happy about, eh?

(maybe some still do?)

I have never known anybody here who was ever, even before 9/11, happy about the IRA's attacks. Most here have absolutely no idea what it's even about. Those here who may have been happy about it had some sort of connection to the conflict I'd imagine. Most christians here are protestant to my knowledge, so I don't see where you get that.

Originally posted by LA_Maximus
Heres your problem Hicks...Your angry because "your kind" is finished in America. Your all washed up, we're on to you.....last election you got hit hard and its gonna get worse.

Didnt hitler say something along those lines to the jews...

The Democrats twisted sense of "values" is not accepted by most regular Americans and the only way the Democrats can push their agenda on the rest of us is thru the international courts. The Democrats are pushing for the US to give up her soverignty to the SICK, TWISTED, CORRUPT International Courts....and it won't happen.

How are they takeing away soverignty?
Please explain because it sounds idiotic to me..

Not while "my Kind" lives. These Terrorist Punks we have locked up are gonna HANG....you hear me? Hang!! Theres not a Damn thing you can do about it....

...Yes thank you for that.
And not while "my kind" lives will they let a person be executed for a crime they may or may not have commited.

Most here have absolutely no idea what it's even about. Those here who may have been happy about it had some sort of connection to the conflict I'd imagine. Most christians here are protestant to my knowledge, so I don't see where you get that.

I believe what sminkeypinkey was reffering to was the vast amount of money that is donated by americans to terrorist organisations in Northern Ireland. This has declined somewhat recently but a few years ago it was a vast amount of money that made Sinn Fein the richest political party in Ireland.

Originally posted by devilwasp
And not while "my kind" lives will they let a person be executed for a crime they may or may not have commited.

That's what I've tried to say several times on this thread, it has nothing to do with democrats or republicans, liberals or conservatives. It has nothing to do with international court, it has to do with MURDERING HUMAN BEINGS WITHOUT GIVING THEM EVERY OPPORTUNITY TO PROVE THEY ARE INNOCENT!

Again Maximus I ask, how can you call yourself a christian, while at the same time screaming that you will break god's #1 rule with such wreckless abandon?

Originally posted by cmdrpaddy
I believe what sminkeypinkey was reffering to was the vast amount of money that is donated by americans to terrorist organisations in Northern Ireland. This has declined somewhat recently but a few years ago it was a vast amount of money that made Sinn Fein the richest political party in Ireland.

I wasn't aware of that either. My guess is whichever organizations they may be do not advertise with "support the IRA, donate now", but more likely put on some sort of catholic front. Like I said, most Americans have no idea who Feinn is, or what's going on in Northern Ireland, for the most part myself included. I highly doubt Americans would knowingly donate a penny to an organization that supported terrorism, even before 9/11, again unless they had personal ties to the conflict.