What Islam says about Mary and Jesus ??????

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posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 09:18 AM
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How are you ,Islam?

You seem to make some very interesting choices in choosing what you or your references are in giving the precise meaning of God's Word.

QuoteBY ISLAM......../// You say.....1. The bible say that the hanged is accursed from God!

[23] ... for he that is hanged is accursed of God; that thy land be not defiled, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance. [Deut.21]

Chrisstianity says that Jesus was hanged on a cross .. But the bible say that the hanged one is accursed from God!!! Isn't that mean that Jesus is accursed!!! Can that be!!


can it be, you ask(not one, but two exclamation marks)


what do you mean?
Do you want an answer from a Christian source on the meaning of Deut.21:23....?

Here it is(Note, I did not need to ''highlight'' the answer in red or other colour) ).......the term "exchange curse" with regard to Galatians 3:10-13.
For as many as are of the works........(Since you know the scriptures, I will let you go look what it says in Galatians)
Now .............
What they mean is that the ""curse of lawbreaking"" from Deut 27:26 against us,
taken on by Christ in our place and/or by Christ as we identify with him,
is in exchange with the curse of being on a tree of Deut 21:23.
The latter cancels the former somehow.
It is relevant that if we are there with him in the
sense of being cursed by the tree, (Adams and Eve sin...
then wouldn't it say that he became a curse with us as man for the curse of Deut21:23 to save us being cursed by the first tree(Adam and Eve...the tree they ate and became away from God........

The Tree of life was blocked to man by the Cherubim with flaming swords.
Gen 3:22. When Adam knowingly ate of the Tree of Knowledge of good & evil,
man sinned leading to death.



a. Cursed is anyone who is hung on a tree Galatians 3:13
Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law,
being made a curse for us: for it is written,
Cursed is every one that hangs on a tree: Deut 21:23


Another of you Friendly answers to the verses you chose ........
Quote from Islam......... Jesus didnt made what he made willingly.

The bible say:
And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? [Matthew 27:46]
2. The verse is about Muhammad. READ THE EXPLANATION ON THE LINK then Discuss the explanation

I can tell you now that this is a LIE .......
No need for me to go into the link ..............as of yet!

"And thus, He Who subjects presents to God that which He has subjected, making our condition His own.
Quote// Of the same kind,
it appears to me, is the expression,
My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?
It was not He who was forsaken either by the Father, or by His own Godhead, as some have thought, as if It were afraid of the Passion, and therefore withdrew Itself from Him in His sufferings (for who compelled Him either to be born on earth at all, or to be lifted up on the Cross?).

But as I said, He was in His own Person representing us.(for all mankind ...
For we were the forsaken and despised before,
but now by the Sufferings of Him Who could not suffer,
we were taken up and saved.
Similarly,
He makes His own our folly and our transgressions; and says what follows in the Psalm,
for it is very evident that the Twenty-first Psalm refers to Christ" (St. Gregory the Theologian, "Fourth Theological Oration," 30.5, Patrologia Græca, Vol. XXXVI, col. 109A).

(4) "He saith, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?
that unto His last breath they might see that He honors His Father,
and is no adversary of God.
Wherefore also He uttered a certain cry from the Prophet,
even to His last hour bearing witness to the Old Testament,
and not simply a cry from the Prophet,
but also in Hebrew,
so as to be plain and intelligible to them,
and by all things,
He shows how He is of one mind with Him that begat Him" (St. John Chrysostomos, "Homilies on St. Matthew," 88.1, Patrologia Græca, Vol. LVIII, col. 776).

And to end it.........you say QUOTE/////1. Islam is not like christianity. We cannot add any single rule if it was not stated by Allah or Muhammad. While in Christianity, pops add rules that was not mentioned before. Also, Quran hasnt been changed till NOW. NO verse was changed and NO one can change it AT ALLLLL.

Let me now ask you something!

Do you FOLLOW in the footsteps of Muhammed?
Do you DO as he has done?
Do you swear that Muhammed was a true prophet of God who is Lord Jesus Christ......

Thank you Islam.....waiting your reply.....
Glory Be To God and His Saints and Theotokos .....
take care helen.




posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 05:38 AM
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Originally posted by Islam

But why God didnt save his "son" or "himself"?
And why God allowed the man to kill Jesus if he doesnt want to?

Christianity says that God IS the one who want his "son" to be killed.

- Do you mean God COULD NOT know why we were sinning so much unless by coming down ?????? Didnt he the one who create us and he should know everything about us??

- Can God NOT save himself from killeng?!!!!?!?!??!?! Then how I will ask him to save me if i am in trouble ???

- I scare from a God that kill innocents to forgive bad guys. And if so, I will not be good so that God will not kill me oneday for the sake of a bad guy!!!!!!!!!



How are you Islam?

Let me answer some of your Questions regarding the God, Lord Jesus Christ ....
Christ is perfect God, hence our divine redeemer,and perfect man;Godman and as Godman sinless(Heb.4,15;9,28)
Also read(since you are aquanted with the Scriptures)
Acts2,22
1PETER2,24
1Corinthians15,21
Rom1,3
Rom.8,29
Heb.2,14
Heb 5,8
many more I could list......

quote///you say ////Can God NOT save himself from killeng?!!!!?!?!??!?! Then how I will ask him to save me if i am in trouble ???

For this purpose did God take FLESH and became man to save the world.......
From another previous post you made....you said
quote/Chrisstianity says that Jesus was hanged on a cross .. But the bible say that the hanged one is accursed from God!!! Isn't that mean that Jesus is accursed!!! Can that be!!

and I answered that.....He did this for man was cursed in the fall of Adam and Eve...Jesus Christ took it upon Himself for that ''curse'' to be lifted....since the tree was the cause....for man to sin....Christ took that sin to His Death upon the CROSS (Tree)

John 17:1-5 Five times - Glorify

“Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. I have glorified You on the earth.
I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was. “NKJV Contrasted with Satan’s rebellion in Isaiah 14 with the five “I wills”.


(1) Jesus requested that He be glorified in order to bring further glory to the Father. Jesus’ petition was not to receive glory independently from the Father, but to be glorified to the praise of the Father. “… Father, the hour has Satan wanted to usurp God’s position and glory (Isaiah 14:12-14). He wanted to receive glory independently of God. Jesus prayed for glorification in order to exalt the Father.

2) Jesus requested the glory which rightfully belonged to Him. “And now glorify Me together with Yourself, Father, with the glory which I ever had with You before the world was” (John 17:5). When the second person of the Godhead left heaven to become God incarnate, He temporarily set aside His glory:



Philippians 2:7 “But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: This ‘kenosis’ was illustrated by the washing of the disciples’ feet in John 13.

Philippians 2:6-8 “who, being in the form of God,

did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,

but made Himself of no reputation*,

taking the form of a bondservant, and

coming in the likeness of men. And

being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and

became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.”


theres more.....

Glory be to God,Lord Jesus Christ....
helen....



posted on Apr, 27 2005 @ 02:37 AM
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di I double post..
sorry!
helen

sorry again..just tired..



[edit on 4/27/2005 by helen670]



posted on Apr, 27 2005 @ 05:59 AM
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Hehehe....helen, Islam, as much as I like seeing discussions advocating understanding....this is obviously not working. Here is the reason:

Christianity subscribes to the idea of an "Original Sin", commited by Adam and Eve, which has been passed down to all humanity. Because of this, everyone is inherently sinful. Thus the requirement to accept Jesus's sacrifice to cleanse away our sins.

Islam believes that every human is born pure and sinless, and it is only when a person wilfully commits a sin that they become sinful. Sins cannot pass from one person to another, and no one can cleanse the sins of someone else. Thus, it would be pointless for Jesus to sacrifice himself to cleanse away our sins.

Both these beliefs are deeply ingrained into their respective religions.

[edit on 27-4-2005 by babloyi]



posted on May, 2 2005 @ 01:04 AM
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Originally posted by babloyi
Hehehe....helen, Islam, as much as I like seeing discussions advocating understanding....this is obviously not working. Here is the reason:

Christianity subscribes to the idea of an "Original Sin", commited by Adam and Eve, which has been passed down to all humanity. Because of this, everyone is inherently sinful. Thus the requirement to accept Jesus's sacrifice to cleanse away our sins.

Islam believes that every human is born pure and sinless, and it is only when a person wilfully commits a sin that they become sinful. Sins cannot pass from one person to another, and no one can cleanse the sins of someone else. Thus, it would be pointless for Jesus to sacrifice himself to cleanse away our sins.

Both these beliefs are deeply ingrained into their respective religions.

[edit on 27-4-2005 by babloyi]

Hi babloyi....

Actually the E.Orthodox view on the original sin is not that of the teachings of Roman Catholic.....

helen...



posted on May, 2 2005 @ 06:02 AM
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Really? I did not know that. Please explain the E. Orthodox view of Original Sin to me. It might even help in this discussion.

[edit on 2-5-2005 by babloyi]



posted on May, 2 2005 @ 09:30 AM
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There's alot of reading......

The Resurrection of Christ the Redeemer is the completion of the Great Work for the redemption of mankind from enslavement to Satan and corruption; the power of sin is destroyed and Death itself is abolished..(sin from Adam and Eve....which was DEATH of old age ....into eternal emptiness)
The Resurrection of Christ grants every one the right to call himself a child of God; it is the return of Paradise lost,
the threshold of the Holy of Holies of immortal life and communion with God. St. Paul tells us that if there had been no Resurrection then our Christian faith would have been deprived of any foundation or value: If Christ has not been raised,
then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain.... If Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins (1 Cor. 15:14, 17).

But Christ is risen; He rose the First among the sons of earth,(He is the New Adam .in order to destroy the sin,God took flesh of man and became man in order to destroy Adam's sin)
and thus manifested His Might and His Divine Power.
Through our forefathers disobedience to God,
sin took possession of human nature,(after the sin of Adam man changed and all nature ,animals etc..)
and brought decay and death in its wake.(this is the first death ....nature became corrupted)
But Christ abolished original sin and cleansed the fallen Adam (Eph, 1:7). With His divine blood He raises man into a new creation (1 Cur. 15.13-26).

In Romans 5:12 St. Paul says that By one man sin entered the world,
and death by sin, and a little later, in Romans 8:20–21, he says that the creation entered into corruption because of man's sin.....

Orthodoxy does not accept the idea that we are '''guilty'' of Adam's sin.
No, Adam alone was guilty of his sin.
However, we do share the consequences of his sin.(meaning death to all man) We are born into corruption, and with an inherited tendency or inclination toward sin. (we have the ability to sin on our own free will)
All of us sin, and so we deserve the consequences of sin: spiritual and physical death, and eternal separation from God in hades.....

During the Old Testament period,
God gave laws to the Hebrews to help them live righteous lives.
He instituted animal sacrifices, which the Hebrews were to make as offerings for sin.
These sacrifices were a prefiguration of Christ's sacrifice,
to prepare the people of God to understand and accept the meaning of Christ's death on the Cross.
But neither the sacrifices nor the laws were able to restore mankind to the state he had lost at the Fall.

A perfect, blameless sacrifice was needed—a man who was without sin—in order to destroy the consequences of sin....
That was why Christ came. The first Adam fell from his original designation, bringing everything into ruin. Therefore Christ, Who is called the Second Adam or the New Adam, came into the world to fulfill man's original designation and restore what was lost.
But Christ did even more than that. He not only restored man to what Adam was before the Fall: He gave man the possibility to become that which Adam was supposed to become, what Adam could have become had he not fallen.

web site ....
www.orthodoxinfo.com...

does that help?
sorry about the long read......
helen



posted on May, 2 2005 @ 05:14 PM
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Originally posted by helen670
There's alot of reading......
helen


So plainly in the Eastern Orthodoxism(?) are people taught that each individual personally needs to come to Christ for forgiveness. Or is it Jesus came and took care of sin and everybody is covered? regardless whether or not they ask for forgiveness and place their faith in Him?



posted on May, 3 2005 @ 06:23 AM
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Originally posted by dbrandt

Originally posted by helen670
There's alot of reading......
helen


So plainly in the Eastern Orthodoxism(?) are people taught that each individual personally needs to come to Christ for forgiveness. Or is it Jesus came and took care of sin and everybody is covered? regardless whether or not they ask for forgiveness and place their faith in Him?


Hi dbrandt...

Yes, as it is said in the New Testament ....every individual is guilty of their own sin....you must have confession and participate in the body and blood of Christ....which Christ Himself taght the Apostles to do.....Christ being the New Lamb....not the sacrificial lamb anymore ......He said ''do this in remembrance of Me''
Confession is part of being a true Christian.....
quote/"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (I John 1:9)
Also one of the Psalms speak of forgiveness of sins....
Just because one becomes a Christian doesn't mean that they simply just can go on sinning and all will be forgiven.....
Christ thruogh His death and Resurrcetion opened up the gates of the Old Testament Paradise (which was church)and all are welcome to be a part of it again.....only if one is to follow in His teachings.....that is what He taght the Apostles and told them to do as He has done to them....He showed them an example as a Godman (took flesh from man)He was both God and man and did all this for mankind because it was the only way to destroy the 'curse on mankind''...which was the spiritual death'' ......at His resurrection he descended into hell and freed all the old testament people......
Paradise was closed before the Resurrection......at the Cross when He was dying, the man on His right hand side asked Christ to take him with Him and Christ said that you will be in paradise with me.....

I know of alot Christians who do beleive that once you become a Christian that's it, all is done and all is forgiven.....that is so wrong...

hope that helps.
helen...

[edit on 5/3/2005 by helen670]






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