The coffee-beans have ears.

So I'm at the coffee shop having my first glass of wine, some nibbles, and reading my book.

There cones one of the trainers from gym.
"Howzit bro"?
He has a cup of coffee with a woman and leaves.

Then this couple sits down, white and well-dressed.
Then this other dude comes in and joins them, similarly well-dressed and groomed.

And first the couple gushing, oh thank you for coning today, in this terrible weather (this was all actually in Afrikaans).

Then he asked them about their backgrounds, and I thought it was all a job interview.

Then they called him "Dominie", and it occurred to me this was actually a pastor.
So this dude is 24 and his girlfriend is 20, and they"re asking the pastor if they can move in together.

The answer from the pastor was non-judgementl, but slightly manipulative.

"I understand, but I was already married at 25"!

You're really going to struggle if you live together before marriage, so stop faffing about and get married!

But I'm thinking, do you know how much a wedding costs these days?

Oh, I'm sure the pastor knows.

No judgement intended on any position, just what I overheard at the coffee-shop.

a reply to: halfoldman
It's a bit sad to see when two adults ask another adult for permission to move together.

They could ask God themselves and just wait for the signs if that's the real question. Pastor is just going by the dogma he was raised up with too. The pastor was probably thinking about them going down on each other before marriage and wanted to prevent that.

Talking them into marriage like that does not change who they are, two loving humans that want to make the first big step towards a family. I say, let them. Sounds like they do have moral and it's about time they grow up and make decisions for themselves.

Don't need a pastor for that, IMHO. No judgement either, that's just my opinion.

And to think, the NG Church has some magnificent churches around here.
With bazaars and kindergartens, and everything is top-notch.
And yet here this couple has to meet the Dominie in a thunderstorm, in a coffee shop!

Don't grin now, pretend you're very focused on your reading.

Pastor, should we cohabit together?

You just want to swipe the saucers aside and leap onto the laminated table:



Yip, give it a "test-drive".

FWIW Usually if you are part of that particular church the pastor would do the service for free, its the venue you pay for.

YMMV

a reply to: Butterfinger

Certainly, but a wedding is a huge affair in Afrikaner circles.

Girls dream of it from when they rose out of a cabbage patch.
Guys, well I've got to match or supersede the weddings of all the nephews and cousins.

You can't just elope.
It's got to be spectacular..

And the pastor is young, white and seemingly employed.

Not that I've checked that.

And thinking, that's what I should have studied - theology.

But back then everybody said there's no future in it.
Lesson: don't listen to "everybody".

a reply to: halfoldman

In the past where precautions against getting pregnant were not ready available and not secure , like sheep intestines or fish bladder, that kind of mindset the pastor is in alignment with was necessary. I think organized Churches and Religion came to be because people wanted something persistent, something secure in those times. A noble idea for community structure that supports faith in something bigger. Then it was abused by men that sought power and an easier life and perverted the idea. Not saying that pastor is one of those, did not get the impression from your written observations.

How can making love in a safe and consensual setting be wrong? I don't think that sex should be demonized, because it's the most intimate act. Sexual attraction is important and subconscious sign of compatibility. Not something that grants that but a hint the body gives us.

Hormones, the smell, that's all important and may be the way our body deciphers and expresses gene compatibility. Sexual frustration is number one reason for marriage breaking, because it often leads to one of the two cheating. That's why couples do things like swinging and partner exchange. I've been dabbling in that kind of things and it's a brutal relationship killer for almost all couples.

Because sex is so intimate that when two people are compatible, they quickly fall in love most of the time. Like really digging the smell and it's a magnetic attraction. I've seen it countless times and that's why I don't dance that tango anymore with couples at all.. Women are much more insecure and unpredictable when it comes to that. Most men have less holdback when it comes to that. A natural thing I believe.

But sooner or later it happens with almost all couples that share intimacy with people outside their marriage. Therefor it makes more sense to have sex before marriage. We can afford that because we have secure protection. That's not to disrespect anyone living the couples way of life, not at all. Or promoting heavy frequent sexual contact with lot's of partners, what has it's own negative outcomes.

But to shun or forbid it isn't right either. They are in their best years too. People, make love and listen to the heart, not the pastor. That feeling of sexual attraction isn't the devil, it's nature.

Actually I've still got half a spinach and feta tramezzini, and baked beans from the encounter.

In a Malthusian economic sense also thinking, be glad you're a bachelor.

a reply to: halfoldman

But won't you get lonely one day?

Nope, I got ATS.

In these tough economic times, it's more important than ever to get a grip on yourself.

Try before you buy has always been my motto

A very old fashioned attitude the young couple have asking permission from a elder , when i was younger and living with my then GF the older couple who stayed next door totally blanked both of us on finding out we were living together and in SIN before this they couldn't have been nicer but totally changed

originally posted by: halfoldman
In these tough economic times, it's more important than ever to get a grip on yourself.

I sqeek when i walk halfoldman , i have sutch a tight grip on myself its almost perverted

All those homophobic old men from back in the day.

"My name is Sue, how do you do"?

What? They all died of heart failure years ago.
What, the heavies at the bar weren't immortal?

But thanks anyway, I got my "revenge body".

And it is sweet.

Today a tuna sandwich, tomorrow it's scone.

Incidentally, what's Mr. Bean's first name?

Has.

originally posted by: halfoldman
So I'm at the coffee shop having my first glass of wine, some nibbles, and reading my book.

There cones one of the trainers from gym.
"Howzit bro"?
He has a cup of coffee with a woman and leaves.

Then this couple sits down, white and well-dressed.
Then this other dude comes in and joins them, similarly well-dressed and groomed.

And first the couple gushing, oh thank you for coning today, in this terrible weather (this was all actually in Afrikaans).

Then he asked them about their backgrounds, and I thought it was all a job interview.

Then they called him "Dominie", and it occurred to me this was actually a pastor.
So this dude is 24 and his girlfriend is 20, and they"re asking the pastor if they can move in together.

The answer from the pastor was non-judgementl, but slightly manipulative.

"I understand, but I was already married at 25"!

You're really going to struggle if you live together before marriage, so stop faffing about and get married!

But I'm thinking, do you know how much a wedding costs these days?

Oh, I'm sure the pastor knows.

The default position of all Christian churches is that you should not have sex outside of marriage, and that marriage is to remain monogamous, and divorce is a bad thing, too, because future relationships are by definition, adultery.

There are actually several public health issues (such as increased prevalence of STD's) with promiscuity, as well, but people don't want to know about that.

Although at my age promiscuity is hardly the issue, you're always guessing where the engine might still be cranking.

Which is also why we have the "gutter press".

I would never buy such smut.

"Come Peter, you've been standing at the newspaper-stand now for 20 minutes, we need groceries".