Merchandise and Food Shortages in a National Crisis

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

I wonder if its those same folks with the obscenely huge campers with a sport boat in tow.

I tell ya, gunfire up here sure is a different music than it is where I came from!!

Salt and spices are on that list. Salt is particularly important. Table salt for iodine and kosher or pickling salt for food preservation.

Luckly Michigan sits on a huge salt deposit and the Morton salt mine is just up to the north west of my location. It's cheap enough now to go and buy a good amount. Keep it dry and it will be good forever.

Salt intake mg per day 2,000–5,000 MG (1 to 1.5 teaspoons)

Salt intake per 3 weeks 42,000-105,000 MG ( 1.5 to 3.7 ounces)

Around 3 to 4 pounds of salt a year per person will meet your body's salt needs.

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

I wonder if its those same folks with the obscenely huge campers with a sport boat in tow.

I tell ya, gunfire up here sure is a different music than it is where I came from!!

If I were to go back to Detroit, I wouldn't even blink if shots were fired.

I don't trust those weekend boater types, they can be trouble. The river pirates are a good bunch of boaters, of course they are year round locals.

originally posted by: Hecate666
So of course in order to kill anyone who hasn't got the space or the money to store/buy any food in masses, you have to buy everything that's available. Please do, buy as much as you can. I understand it's survival of the one with most storage space and money.
Don't worry about the elderly or disabled or single mums. Just buy lots of food to make it difficult for others to survive.
Somewhere it makes sense. And I'll be the last to go against natural selection.
Just wondering about your conscience.

Being prepared doesn't automatically equate to hoarding. For example, some of us have been slowly increasing supplies.

This does two things imo. It allows me to set in supplies without breaking the bank. It also gives me the ability to forego buying during a shortage because I've already prepared. That means when supplies are short, I'm not out there competing with grandma. Grandma may have to compete with people that didn't prepare but she's not competing with me because I've built my supply slowly so as not to put stress on the supplies.

I think it's unfair to accuse the OP of encouraging hoarding. The OP simply put out information on the types of supplies that disappear quickly. It's up to us as individuals to be responsible with how we use that information.

a reply to: Khaleesi

Huge thanks.

I wasn't trying to imply to go out and go hog wild clearing the store shelves because the crap is ready to hit the fan. You get that and I thank you for pointing out that preppers aren't hoarders and black market profiteers.

Anyway, expect rationing, that will keep a lid on hoarding, supposedly.

originally posted by: MichiganSwampBuck
a reply to: Khaleesi

Huge thanks.

I wasn't trying to imply to go out and go hog wild clearing the store shelves because the crap is ready to hit the fan. You get that and I thank you for pointing out that preppers aren't hoarders and black market profiteers.

Anyway, expect rationing, that will keep a lid on hoarding, supposedly.

We don't have the money to suddenly clear the shelves. Most people don't. We are comfortable and can afford to buy a little extra here and there. We are also aware enough to realize that by slowly increasing our supplies we are not placing undue pressure on supplies in the stores. If the shelves are full or almost full, buying one extra of an item that will potentially be in short supply in the future isn't going to deprive anyone of anything.

I appreciate the effort you put into putting the information together. People can be responsible if they have solid information as a basis to make decisions.

originally posted by: Hecate666
So of course in order to kill anyone who hasn't got the space or the money to store/buy any food in masses, you have to buy everything that's available. Please do, buy as much as you can. I understand it's survival of the one with most storage space and money.
Don't worry about the elderly or disabled or single mums. Just buy lots of food to make it difficult for others to survive.
Somewhere it makes sense. And I'll be the last to go against natural selection.
Just wondering about your conscience.

Some of us buy and store because of elderly, disable as well as children, family and friends.

Personally, I can't imagine a scenario where what preps I've done only benefit me. I can not do everything. Can not supply everything. There will be people that will benefit and a smaller number of them that will likely contribute little by comparison.

a reply to: JinMI

Same here. My wife's two youngest kids still live with us while they continue their education. We provide for them and will continue to do so in the event of an emergency. We also have a close friend who is disabled. We have already discussed making room for him in our home in case the SHTF moment arrives.

Correction: Those figures aren't from Bloomberg, perhaps they are from the SHTF Plan website.

Regardless, the problems we are experiencing now are much larger and complex than what happened eight or more years ago in Venezuela and Argentina. A new study of the potential costs of essential items will need to be made for a more accurate prediction, however, you can get an idea of what can happen when a perfect storm or black swan event occurs based on those numbers. Things will be much worse than what I presented in the OP and you can take that to the bank that won't be open soon.

a reply to: Khaleesi

Bartering too will be key in establishing a network when there no longer exists one. There's a few elderly around me that much better prepared. They too know that they'll need aid should the time come.

originally posted by: JinMI

originally posted by: Hecate666
So of course in order to kill anyone who hasn't got the space or the money to store/buy any food in masses, you have to buy everything that's available. Please do, buy as much as you can. I understand it's survival of the one with most storage space and money.
Don't worry about the elderly or disabled or single mums. Just buy lots of food to make it difficult for others to survive.
Somewhere it makes sense. And I'll be the last to go against natural selection.
Just wondering about your conscience.

Some of us buy and store because of elderly, disable as well as children, family and friends.

Personally, I can't imagine a scenario where what preps I've done only benefit me. I can not do everything. Can not supply everything. There will be people that will benefit and a smaller number of them that will likely contribute little by comparison.

What you bring up is the prepper's dilemma. Most of the professional survivalists guys will tell you your chance of surviving in the wilderness alone are very low even if prepared. So many preppers know that they will need a like minded community for support, esp. when bugging in. However, the dilemma is you shouldn't broadcast your preparedness. You should keep your supplies secret as well as look and act like everyone else who hadn't prepared. Even if you think you can trust people that you are a prepper, word can still get out or you find you couldn't trust those people.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

Very true. We don't talk about our supplies. Our friend who is disabled knows because we have plans for him to be with us when it all goes downhill. He's hardcore conspiracy theorist and I know he will never tell anyone. He's a vet and he knows how to keep a secret.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

That list is not transferable from one economy to another. Crises are always different and shortages are unpredictable. I have some practical experience of these matters; economies collapse in unpredictable ways.

I didn't read the rest of your post, since this is evidently the premise it's based on.

a reply to: Astyanax

I agree, this is old information from countries under different circumstances.

I'm not an economist obviously and have been merely sharing my old notes, looking at what has happened as the potential of what could happen here soon. If I had more interest in the particulars of economic collapse I'd be more inclined to look at the current expert forecasts and base the number on that. However, a collapse is the concern and what will happen in the aftermath, not so much the exact cost of a loaf of bread before and after.

If there are any bean counters out there that are interested, have a go at it and share it in a new thread. I'd be very interested in that one.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

I seen stuff w FEMA/DHS since bout 08-09 in training. Got some hellacious lists myself.

Great OP, thanks!

Seriously. All it takes is buying an extra can of soup or two each grocery run, or storing two rolls of tp out of each 12 pack you buy. Learning how to grow things and can. Getting chickens or ensuring you have something or some skill you can barter with if you don't have lots of space. Learning how to do things to make you indispensable in a communal setting if it came to that.

I live in a small home in an urban setting with little storage. But its amazing what you can fit into a bin under your bed. I've even seen posts where people have fashioned the space under their mattresses where the box spring is to store stuff.

Personal responsibility, folks. Would I help the elderly neighbor who can't fend for herself? Absolutely. But if the SHTF and you aren't stocked with at least a little (should stock a bit anyway even if just for a natural disaster) or prepared to have some means of bartering or skills, that's on you. The most uninformed can see that tough times are brewing. It won't be the meth head to worry about, it will be the mom or dad with a family to feed that didn't prepare that will be dangerous.

FFS, people need to learn self-reliance and how to contribute instead of sucking off the teat of Big Brother for a change. Man's dignity comes from having a PURPOSE other than just crying about the haves and have nots all the dang time.

a reply to: SideEyeEverything

I wasn't making a comparison between meth heads and unprepared families that become criminal desparados, but law and order and moral considerations will go by the wayside when your family is starving. Meth heads are a consideration for me right now locally, that's all I meant by that comment earlier. A starving family would get far more respect from me then junkies, I would likely help them at least a little, esp. if they have young children.

a reply to: SideEyeEverything

"FFS, people need to learn self-reliance and how to contribute instead of sucking off the teat of Big Brother for a change. Man's dignity comes from having a PURPOSE other than just crying about the haves and have nots all the dang time."

I remember a time when getting government aid was embarrassing and if you were on it you wanted off as soon as possible. Now it seems people are looking for any opportunity to take a hand out or scam the system to get something. If you really look into it its amazing how many programs there are and if someone is skilled in their ability to game the system how little they have to do to live a pretty comfortable life.

a reply to: rickymouse

Switch to Coal - We have a Victorian with 5 fire places 2 gas 2 wood and the main Coal and it pretty much aids the whole house burns longer hotter !

a reply to: Hecate666

Well, you know, it IS about culling the herd. So I would guess this gets protracted and more severe.