Russia Coal and Oil Paid for in Yuan Starts Heading to China

originally posted by: Ravenwatcher
Not sure if it's true but I was under the understanding that China owned enough US currency that they could dump it and totally destroy the US economy .

They also own all the national parks in the USA as well as deep water ports ,roads etc and for every dollar printed there are 10 yuan printed. ,so something has to give soon .

originally posted by: Ravenwatcher
It would flood the markets with US currency devaluing it Like Oprah everyone gets a car .

It would create a buying opportunity for smart investors who could purchase dollars below the Forex spot price and then resell them later once the sell off is over for a profit. But practically speaking their isn't a large amount of actual currency tied up in investments like that.

Do you mean to say debt?

a reply to: Irishhaf

That just sounds like getting their Ducks in a row .

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I was under the impression that the actual US currency they own If they flooded the markets would destroy our economy . Who would they buy our debt from ? If they own a big chunk of our debt they could call it in or sale it off correct ?

originally posted by: Ravenwatcher
I was under the impression that the actual US currency they own If they flooded the markets would destroy our economy .

I'm not sure where you're getting that info from, there's only about $1.7trillion of physical currency in circulation and the largest single country of possession is the United States.

Who would they buy our debt from ?

From us in the form of Treasury Bills.

If they own a big chunk of our debt they could call it in or sale it off correct ?

No, T-Bills have a fixed maturity date, they could theoretically sell them at a loss to someone else but that would be plain stupid. They also aren't even the largest foreign owner of our debt, that's Japan. The single largest holder of our debt by far is the United States citizens and their stirpes.

originally posted by: Ravenwatcher
Not sure if it's true but I was under the understanding that China owned enough US currency that they could dump it and totally destroy the US economy .

Actually JAPAN and others have more US debt than china does. This is the perfect time to remove china from the world banking system. And declare our debt to them null and void for their theft of trillions in tech.

originally posted by: Irishhaf
Will the petro dollar fall sooner or later yea.

This isnt that bell weather moment, China is making certain that Russia is beholden to them and china will have a steady flow of oil and coal for the future.

I agree, and that's why I termed this the beginning of a 'long death march'.

This transformation won't happen overnight.

I would like to say that there's still time for us to prove that we can be the trustworthy, honorable custodians of the worlds' reserve currency, but we've damaged our reputation so much, over the last decade, and we have been and continue to be completely outclassed and outmaneuvered by our adversaries.

The Chinese are helping us aim and fire the guns that we shoot through our own feet when it comes to pushing us out as the main economic superpower. Our own people have knowingly and unwittingly sold us out, and pull the trigger.

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: Ravenwatcher
Not sure if it's true but I was under the understanding that China owned enough US currency that they could dump it and totally destroy the US economy .

Actually JAPAN and others have more US debt than china does. This is the perfect time to remove china from the world banking system. And declare our debt to them null and void for their theft of trillions in tech.

Yes indeed; it's a common misconception that China holds most of the U.S. sovereign debt.

Overseas creditorscomprise less than %30 of total U.S. debit.

Our current debt sits at around 30 TRILLION dollars.

$30 trillion

This is an intangible, abstract, astronomically big number.

I'm not sure we could avoid defaulting on it now if even we didn't want to.

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: Ravenwatcher
Not sure if it's true but I was under the understanding that China owned enough US currency that they could dump it and totally destroy the US economy .

Actually JAPAN and others have more US debt than china does. This is the perfect time to remove china from the world banking system. And declare our debt to them null and void for their theft of trillions in tech.

Which would instantly collapse china's banking system which it's entirely dependent on the value of the 1t in US securities that the ccp central bank holds.

a reply to: SleeperHasAwakened

The sanctions are pushing Russia and China further together this wont go very well for war hawks who desperately seeking a war or a proxy war agaisnt Russia.

originally posted by: Irishhaf
Will the petro dollar fall sooner or later yea.

This isnt that bell weather moment, China is making certain that Russia is beholden to them and china will have a steady flow of oil and coal for the future.

The EU doesn't want cheaper, free oil,gas from Russia, so somebody else will be trading it for services for their economics.

The LNG gas will be likely expensive.

originally posted by: vNex92
a reply to: SleeperHasAwakened

The sanctions are pushing Russia and China further together this wont go very well for war hawks who desperately seeking a war or a proxy war agaisnt Russia.

Nobody but russia is 'seeking a war against russia', proxy or otherwise.

Russia decided to invade Ukraine all on it's own.

Everyone else is attempting to help Ukraine defend itself from russia's ongoing brutal invasion and prevent the madman in russia from nuking the planet.

originally posted by: vNex92

originally posted by: Irishhaf
Will the petro dollar fall sooner or later yea.

This isnt that bell weather moment, China is making certain that Russia is beholden to them and china will have a steady flow of oil and coal for the future.

The EU doesn't want cheaper, free oil,gas from Russia, so somebody else will be trading it for services for their economics.

The LNG gas will be likely expensive.

Perhaps you don't understand supply and demand economics?

Every bit of russian oil and gas that russia is able to sell outside russia, regardless of who they sell it to, increases the global supply to a relatively fixed global demand, and reduces prices as a result.

Prices are higher right now because so many countries have refused to purchase anything from russia, leaving that oil trapped inside russia and off the global market.

As the U.S, Canada and Australia ramp up production to get global supplies back where they were before the planet cancelled russia, the prices will also go back down to where they were before the planet cancelled russia for it's brutal invasion of a non threatening neighbor.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: SleeperHasAwakened
It's inefficient for anyone outside BIS, who, in the bowels of their Swiss fortresses, can settle millions in sovereign debts by wheeling carts around to different sections of their vaults.

It's even inefficient for them as well, there's not enough gold in the world to make this practical in any manner. Shifting hunks of metal around are pointless when settlement needs to take place in milliseconds.

call jg wentworth when you need cash now!

a reply to: SleeperHasAwakened

Or it could just be the terms of the Russian-Sino Treaty of Good Neighborship and Friendship that they just extended...Since Russia is unable to access the worlds banking system, they may have under the terms of that agreement (Which China signed for the sole purpose of getting Russian Gas and Oil and Tech) to do business in a currency they could access, nothing to do with "Death marches of the Dollar" etc..

Not everything is the |Death march of this or that" and the "End of doing things X way" sometimes it's just the ONLY way one can do something.

originally posted by: vkey08
a reply to: SleeperHasAwakened

Or it could just be the terms of the Russian-Sino Treaty of Good Neighborship and Friendship that they just extended...Since Russia is unable to access the worlds banking system, they may have under the terms of that agreement (Which China signed for the sole purpose of getting Russian Gas and Oil and Tech) to do business in a currency they could access, nothing to do with "Death marches of the Dollar" etc..

Not everything is the |Death march of this or that" and the "End of doing things X way" sometimes it's just the ONLY way one can do something.

When you look at consequences of this conflict, in tandem with other happenings in the energy sector (e.g. the Saudis considering taking yuan for payment of oil), and the ascendance of BRICS, then to not acknowledge that the petro-dollar is positioned for a decline is closing one's eyes to the financial realities around us.

Like I said, for some, this is viewed as a positive thing, and to an extent perhaps they are right. We in the West have consistently fouled up and abrogated our role as a fair, neutral custodian of the world's reserve currency. I'd probably be fine with the demise of the p.d. were I a citizen of say China or Russia.

As I emphasized in the OP, the bandwagon and piling on to "hit those narsty Russians where it hurts, in the wallet!" is merely reinforcing what other nations are already waking up to: if you cross the NATO/U.S. banking cartel, you get cut out of the equation. A country like Russia has contingencies to deal with this, while some other might not. Either way, the writing is on the wall, that continuation of the status quo is too risky for anyone outside NATO/U.S. sphere of influence.

a reply to: SleeperHasAwakened

You're missing the point.

In 2001, so the treaty goes, China needed to modernize it's military.

What did China do?

They signed a treaty with the Russian Federation that gave them access to Russian technology, Russian Gas and Russian Oil. IN exchange the Russians would help build a pipeline from Russia to China, and back China's intentions towards the Republic of China (Taiwan)

That is why this has nothing to do with the death knell of the dollar, this was a specific treaty, that was just extended, and it had very specific points. China has been using Roubles or Yuan to buy oil from the Russian Federation since 2001 in accordance with that treaty. Excluding Russia from the financial markets and banking system just solidified that decision and made it, as it looks in retrospect, a good one for China.

Just because something looks similar or is in some way somewhat the same, does not automatically make it so. The United States of America has known about this treaty from day one when it was signed, they have never contested it nor have they complained about it. 2001. that's how long that's been going on, no real new revelations here, which is why I stated:

This isn't the death rattle of the dollar, it's a treaty that was signed, ratified by the two countries involved and has been in force for 21 years. It was extended BY CHINA before this current mess even started.

a reply to: vkey08

And what everyone is continually missing is that oil is priced in dollars. Want to pay in Yuan? Good for you, still need a dollar price conversion.

originally posted by: SleeperHasAwakened

originally posted by: vkey08
a reply to: SleeperHasAwakened

Or it could just be the terms of the Russian-Sino Treaty of Good Neighborship and Friendship that they just extended...Since Russia is unable to access the worlds banking system, they may have under the terms of that agreement (Which China signed for the sole purpose of getting Russian Gas and Oil and Tech) to do business in a currency they could access, nothing to do with "Death marches of the Dollar" etc..

Not everything is the |Death march of this or that" and the "End of doing things X way" sometimes it's just the ONLY way one can do something.

When you look at consequences of this conflict, in tandem with other happenings in the energy sector (e.g. the Saudis considering taking yuan for payment of oil), and the ascendance of BRICS, then to not acknowledge that the petro-dollar is positioned for a decline is closing one's eyes to the financial realities around us.

Like I said, for some, this is viewed as a positive thing, and to an extent perhaps they are right. We in the West have consistently fouled up and abrogated our role as a fair, neutral custodian of the world's reserve currency. I'd probably be fine with the demise of the p.d. were I a citizen of say China or Russia.

As I emphasized in the OP, the bandwagon and piling on to "hit those narsty Russians where it hurts, in the wallet!" is merely reinforcing what other nations are already waking up to: if you cross the NATO/U.S. banking cartel, you get cut out of the equation. A country like Russia has contingencies to deal with this, while some other might not. Either way, the writing is on the wall, that continuation of the status quo is too risky for anyone outside NATO/U.S. sphere of influence.

heres how to fix the BRICS countries. cut them out RIGHT NOW and collapse their economies. India has been a fair weather friend,and deserves to be punished so they learn to not go against who controls the banking system.

And also Tell the saudis no more water for them from America or companies in america if they try such a foolish move,and then also help their enemies destroy them until they agree to do as told.

Are those extreme? yes.
Are they necessary? yes.

originally posted by: yuppa
And also Tell the saudis no more water for them from America or companies in america...

Er, what? The have their own water supply including over 50% coming from desalinization.