Supplying Ukraine with weapons is only making things worse.... we need diplomatic solutions.

a reply to: JIMC5499

First off the US has no MiGs to send. They may have one or two, but they won't make a difference.

The US actually owns 21 MiG-29s that they bought from Moldova in 1997.

a reply to: JIMC5499

No I used his quotes as to what he stated he would do. Although I was kind of lost on what he was actually saying, he did appear to state he would assist.

Weapons and instructors.

The US Army's Green Berets quietly helped tilt the battlefield a little bit more toward Ukraine - www.foxnews.com...

a reply to: ISeekTruth101

Of course a diplomatic solution is the preferred option.

But that relies on both sides being prepared for a little give and take....as far as I can tell Putin's approach to diplomacy is to issue unrealistic demands whilst holding the threat of nuclear war over everybody's head and continuing with the invasion.

I'd suggest that an immediate ceasefire would be the best course of action for everybody.....but there's absolutely no way Putin is willing to do that.
And I suspect there are extremists on both sides that would ignore it anyway.....but surely its the common sense first step and worth a try?

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: ISeekTruth101

Of course a diplomatic solution is the preferred option.

But that relies on both sides being prepared for a little give and take....as far as I can tell Putin's approach to diplomacy is to issue unrealistic demands whilst holding the threat of nuclear war over everybody's head and continuing with the invasion.

I'd suggest that an immediate ceasefire would be the best course of action for everybody.....but there's absolutely no way Putin is willing to do that.
And I suspect there are extremists on both sides that would ignore it anyway.....but surely its the common sense first step and worth a try?

How hard would it have been for NATO to remove their missiles from Poland, and not grant Ukraine NATO membership?

Quite a simple request. A request Putin has repeated for a decade. A request Putin repeated just as he ammassed his troops on the border, and NATO turned around with “no”.

So there was no negotiation from other side. And the former US Defence Secretary for bush and Obama said it is reckless for NATOS to bring in Ukraine into NATO and ignore Russia’s concerns and protests.

So is what it is, NATO and the USA can’t always have everything their way or the highway. They knew exactly what they were doing in provoking russia into a war. And the experts said the same thing but the people in charge didn’t care, war is good for them.

a reply to: ISeekTruth101

How hard would it have been for NATO to remove their missiles from Poland, and not grant Ukraine NATO membership?

Firstly, you got something massively wrong, as wrong as something can be:
Ukraine isn't a member of NATO.
If it was we more than likely would be amidst a full blown war between NATO and Russia.....and we are still quite some distance away from that - hopefully. 🤞🙏

The issue here is Ukraine and not Poland.
Why are you making it about Poland?

But be as it may, we are where we are and NATO has a presence there because it is a member.
Now why is it a member?
A question I've asked you before.

Because they WANT to be.
They have been a dominated, subservient, supressed, satellite nation of Russia and they don't want to be again.
They have first hand experience of Russian expansionism and being part of a Great Russian Empire.
They didn't like it....at all.

Has Poland as an independent nation the Right to be a member of whatever organisation it likes or must its foreign policy be determined by a bigger, stronger, bullying, neighbour?

But, if my Aunty had balls she'd be my Uncle.
It is what it is and we are where we are....no-one can change what is done.
'If only', 'what if' and 'what about' achieves nothing whatsoever.

Putin could easily call an immediate ceasefire and with it an end to the fighting and the killing.
Diplomacy and not-so common sense could then hopefully take over.

As usual, you seem to be looking at everything with a massive inherent anti-NATO/pro-Russian bias.

a reply to: ISeekTruth101

And exactly what magical, mystical solutions do you see coming in your land of imagination?

That Ukraine give up territory? Dream on. Ukraine isn't giving up Donbas or Luhansk and in fact wants Crimea back. No appeasement. No compromise. No concession. Ukraine should not have to give an inch.

At most, she may agree to not join NATO and instead lead the way in forming a new European alliance.

Hilariously, Russian news today has it that the Russia has "completed" phase one and will now set about the task of liberating Donbas. As if attempting to obliterate cities all over Ukraine was a prerequisite to this.

So again I ask you, what diplomacy? I really want to know.

originally posted by: GravitySucks
a reply to: ISeekTruth101

And exactly what magical, mystical solutions do you see coming in your land of imagination?

That Ukraine give up territory? Dream on. Ukraine isn't giving up Donbas or Luhansk and in fact wants Crimea back. No appeasement. No compromise. No concession. Ukraine should not have to give an inch.

At most, she may agree to not join NATO and instead lead the way in forming a new European alliance.

Hilariously, Russian news today has it that the Russia has "completed" phase one and will now set about the task of liberating Donbas. As if attempting to obliterate cities all over Ukraine was a prerequisite to this.

So again I ask you, what diplomacy? I really want to know.

The people that work by the sweat of their brow are the ones dying so that the rich people can stay rich and hide their secrets.

They need to surrender before more innocent people die. Are you willing to risk nuclear and or biological war (again) so that zelenski can remain president and our elites can salvage their money laundering and trafficking rings?

Hell I would fight you one on one to stop it. Too bad leaders can’t fight their own fights one on one to settle disputes instead of making farmers die for their glory.

a reply to: iwanttobelieve70

They need to surrender before more innocent people die.

That's just the thing; they don't WANT to surrender.
The ordinary, everyday Ukrainians are fighting to save their country because it is THEIR country and not Russian.
They don't want to be subjugated to Russian repression again.

Are you willing to risk nuclear and or biological war (again).....

The only one threatening nuclear war is Putin....the responsibility lies with him and him alone!
Not even his old Soviet predecessors threatened first strike nuclear war to support an illegal invasion of an independent country.

So you advocate rolling over and letting Putin walk through Ukraine?
What next The Baltic States?
Maybe Poland?
Moldova?

How do you think Bulgaria, Hungary, Romania etc feel about that?
They've all experienced Russian domination....they don't want to experience it again.

... so that zelenski can remain president.....

That's up to the Ukrainian people to sort out one way or another, not NATO, not Russia or anyone else.

....and our elites can salvage their money laundering and trafficking rings?

And that's for us to sort out....but as that's not likely to happen any time soon I'd suggest maybe we shouldn't preach to others about it.

Hell I would fight you one on one to stop it.

?

Too bad leaders can’t fight their own fights one on one to settle disputes instead of making farmers die for their glory.

On this I'm in 100% agreement.

a reply to: Freeborn

They dont have a real choice. If by some miracle they actually start to win (not just US/UKR propaganda) then Russia is just going to further escalate up to tactical nuclear weapons. Millions more will die.

Ukraine as a country is done, only question is how destructive will it be?

Smaller countries cant beat superpowers. Because superpowers have escalation options the little guy doesnt have.

Never forget that Ukraine tried convincing us WITH PROPAGANDA to kick off WW3! Thats a good friend. Roll eyes.

a reply to: nugget1

The US govt had lost its regime change in Syria now they are gunning in Ukraine hoping that they will succeeding the set backs.

Fact Sheet on U.S. Security Assistance to Ukraine

JUNE 24, 2022

The United States has committed approximately $6.8 billion in security assistance to Ukraine since the beginning of the Biden Administration, including approximately $6.1 billion since the beginning of Russia’s unprovoked invasion on February 24.

On June 23, the Department of Defense (DoD) announced the authorization of a Presidential Drawdown of security assistance valued at up to $450 million for Ukraine. This authorization is the thirteenth drawdown of equipment from DoD inventories for Ukraine since August 2021.

United States security assistance committed to Ukraine includes:

Over 1,400 Stinger anti-aircraft systems;

Over 6,500 Javelin anti-armor systems;

Over 20,000 other anti-armor systems;

Over 700 Switchblade Tactical Unmanned Aerial Systems;

126 155mm Howitzers and 260,000 155mm artillery rounds;

36,000 105mm artillery rounds;

126 Tactical Vehicles to tow 155mm Howitzers;

19 Tactical Vehicles to recover equipment;

Eight High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems and ammunition;

20 Mi-17 helicopters;

Hundreds of Armored High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicles;

200 M113 Armored Personnel Carriers;

Over 10,000 grenade launchers and small arms;

Over 59,000,000 rounds of small arms ammunition;

75,000 sets of body armor and helmets;

121 Phoenix Ghost Tactical Unmanned Aerial Systems;

Laser-guided rocket systems;

Puma Unmanned Aerial Systems;

Unmanned Coastal Defense Vessels;

22 counter-artillery radars;

Four counter-mortar radars;

Four air surveillance radars;

Two harpoon coastal defense systems;

18 coastal and riverine patrol boats;

M18A1 Claymore anti-personnel munitions;

C-4 explosives and demolition equipment for obstacle clearing;

Tactical secure communications systems;

Thousands of night vision devices, thermal imagery systems, optics, and laser rangefinders;

Commercial satellite imagery services;

Explosive ordnance disposal protective gear;

Chemical, Biological, Radiological, Nuclear protective equipment;

Medical supplies to include first aid kits;

Electronic jamming equipment;

Field equipment and spare parts;

Funding for training, maintenance, and sustainment.

The United States also continues to work with its Allies and partners to identify and provide Ukraine with additional capabilities to defend itself.

www.defense.gov...

Senior Defense Officials Hold a Background Briefing, June 24, 2022

JUNE 24, 2022

...............................................
SENIOR DEFENSE OFFICIAL:

In terms of where we go from here, yes, the Russian stocks, the Soviet type equipment stocks are dwindling. That doesn't mean we've reached rock bottom. There are still sources of ammunition. There are sources of equipment. There are still countries all around the world who we're talking to who want to be able to make their own transition to NATO type equipment and are very much willing to provide their equipment.

They are looking for that backfill in many cases. So what we are looking at is not just how we source the Soviet type equipment and not just how we source NATO equipment to transition it to Ukraine. But we're also looking at how we're ramping up production lines of U.S. and NATO equipment so that we can backfill other countries and ourselves so it's a multi pronged effort.
...................................

www.defense.gov...

The conclusion from these words is this:

one of the motives for supplying weapons to Ukraine is the exhaustion of the remaining Soviet weapons in warehouses around the world so that the United States can sell their weapons instead.

It's Just Business.

originally posted by: GravitySucks
a reply to: ISeekTruth101

And exactly what magical, mystical solutions do you see coming in your land of imagination?

That Ukraine give up territory? Dream on. Ukraine isn't giving up Donbas or Luhansk and in fact wants Crimea back. No appeasement. No compromise. No concession. Ukraine should not have to give an inch.

At most, she may agree to not join NATO and instead lead the way in forming a new European alliance.

Hilariously, Russian news today has it that the Russia has "completed" phase one and will now set about the task of liberating Donbas. As if attempting to obliterate cities all over Ukraine was a prerequisite to this.

So again I ask you, what diplomacy? I really want to know.

Crimea is Russia already. Ukraine ignored Crimea and the people there for decades!! Ukraine wants Crimea back but yet Ukraine went and cut off the fresh water to Crimea, killing all the farms and turning the land into a barren desert. Sounds like nice people, how quickly Ukraine turned their back on everyone there. Cutting off their fresh water is the lowest of the low.

originally posted by: GravitySucks

Ukraine isn't giving up Donbas or Luhansk and in fact wants Crimea back

Luhansk is part of the Donbass.

Ukraine has already lost the war. They are still fighting but they have no hope of taking back territory or winning. The longer they wait to reach a diplomatic solution the more territory and lives they will lose. In both cases, they will be lost forever to Ukraine.

Russia is playing the long game in this war now. Their strategy has completely changed from the begging of the war. Now they soften their targets with their long-range capabilities while not caring about the expenditure of artillery shells. Ukraine needs to ration its own ammunition. Ukrainian forces (soldiers) outnumber Russia at 3 to 1 and their losses have been estimated at 25 to 1. All of this and Russia still winning without fully mobilizing.
Ukraine needs to negotiate an end to this before Russia takes control of the entire region around Donbas. If they do not then Russia will likely focus on Odessa, creating a land bridge to Transnistria and land locking all of Ukraine. Once that phase of the operation being I do not believe they will stop until they accomplish the goal.

a reply to: MisguidedAngel

Reading comprehension's not a strong trait for you, eh?