Why do people believe Siddhartha Gautama became a "Buddha" / achieved enlightenment?

When I think of a "Buddha" I think of total enlightenment. Correct me if I'm wrong. What is the basis for people thinking SG achieved such a state? Because somebody said so in a text? How would they know? People exaggerate all the time or make assumptions (And assumption is the mother of all # ups)....I would say the same thing about Jesus' "resurrection" - lots of research showing another story / ending.


Anyway...back to SG. On a related note: If you believe this story has merit, and the boy (Ram Bomjon) could be the reincarnation of the "last buddha," of Siddhartha. Then that means SG did NOT achieve "enlightenment." Nobody has.

1) Because SG/Buddha/Ram Bomjon has not stopped the cycle of their own reincarnation

2) Because Ram Bomjon is not fully at peace, though he has certain abilities.Though I guess it would be your definition of peace as well.

Incredible Buddha Boy - GQ Magazine

www.gq.com...

There are some things in this life, that you must give up to understand.

What blocks most from the realizations that are necessary, is an inability to understand those things which to understand, you must give up your understanding.

Only when you know without knowing, can you really be enlightened.

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a reply to: dontneedaname

His insights into the nature of suffering are unmatched by any other teacher. Through his guidance, one can reach liberation directly in this life.

I suggest you travel to Burma or northern Thailand and meet with an Arahant in the Theraveda tradition... the energy these beings carry is just indescribable.

The difference between teachings of Jesus and Buddha, IMO, is one promises something after death and one promises something only here and now.

Reincarnation, you mention... here it gets complicated because all Buddha actually promises is that you will never come into another state of being. And several places he says its incorrect to say "I am reincarnated or I am not reincarnated."

I imagine this boy comes from a Mahayana tradition, which directly opposes most of what Buddha actually taught... and I'm extremely hesitant to listen to anything Mahayanas or Tibetans say with regard to the teachings of Buddha.

Define enlightenment. Buddhism is a way of life..it does not recognize a god exist only that if you live by Buddha's teachings your life will be more at peace and happier.

There are several branches of Buddhism just like any other religion where men twist the teachings for their own societal benefit while all the time saying this or that head religious person said, therefore it must be thus.

The sect of Buddhism I am around says you are born 7 times and if successful (learned what you are supposed to learn) after the 7th you will not have to be reborn; it is a little foggy what happens next but the general consensus you move on or chose to come back and teach the one path .. No fire and brimstone for a bad life just come back a have a "do over" only this time whatever transgression you visited upon your fellow man in you past life will be visited upon you in your new life. Pretty simple way of looking at things to keep the population in line.

Man wants to build the great temples, churches, and Mosque trying to buy their way into the next life; for the bigger the edifice the more will see and seek an understanding... when the understanding is all around you and has nothing to do with man made buildings and taxes paid for your soul. It may be crude but it is very effective to instill a proper amount of fear and terror in a population you are trying to keep inline and herd to an acceptable destination for the governance/government or the TPTB. Communist always want to do away with religion for they want socialist/communism to be the one true way for you to serve. Serve your masters or die basically.

It's probably impossible to know if someone is enlightened without being enlightened yourself. And whose going to believe you're enlightened?

But alot of people find "buddhas" teachings helpful. I like bagawan rajneesh. Although he's much more controversial.

I don't think it truely matters if jesus, buddha, or whoever was real or was really enlightend or resurrected. Hell, current enlightenment masters may not even know.

It's all about what progresses you. That's particularly why i liked bagawan (despite his flaws) is because his life's work was understanding the meditation techniques in the vigyan bhairav tantra. And that no one technique or path was right for everyone.

originally posted by: TonyBravada
a reply to: dontneedaname

His insights into the nature of suffering are unmatched by any other teacher. Through his guidance, one can reach liberation directly in this life.

I suggest you travel to Burma or northern Thailand and meet with an Arahant in the Theraveda tradition... the energy these beings carry is just indescribable.

The difference between teachings of Jesus and Buddha, IMO, is one promises something after death and one promises something only here and now.

Reincarnation, you mention... here it gets complicated because all Buddha actually promises is that you will never come into another state of being. And several places he says its incorrect to say "I am reincarnated or I am not reincarnated."

I imagine this boy comes from a Mahayana tradition, which directly opposes most of what Buddha actually taught... and I'm extremely hesitant to listen to anything Mahayanas or Tibetans say with regard to the teachings of Buddha.

Thanks. While I have traveled extensively through Asia (Also lived in Bangkok for a few months) - Laos, Cambodia, Indonesia, India, Sri Lanka, Singapore, Malaysia, Nepal, Japan, South Korea, China, Taiwan ; I am not particularly aware of differences between sects. It's just not something I've ever had the interest / need to do.

I did watch some videos about TUMMO meditation once. Related to the Dutch Iceman - Wim Hof, and similar.

As for differences - perhaps they are one and the same. If one doesn't know about GNOSTICISM, then one does not know the whole story of Jesus.

Here's a helpful doc I saw many moons ago re: commonality.

BBC - Hidden Story of Jesus - Robert Beckford
vimeo.com...

Also JESUS IN INDIA.

You are hesitant, but have you investigated? PRIDE is the cardinal sin....in Christianity & Buddhism (Well that's what I recall from watching Kundun)

originally posted by: CptGreenTea
It's probably impossible to know if someone is enlightened without being enlightened yourself. And whose going to believe you're enlightened?

But alot of people find "buddhas" teachings helpful. I like bagawan rajneesh. Although he's much more controversial.

I don't think it truely matters if jesus, buddha, or whoever was real or was really enlightend or resurrected. Hell, current enlightenment masters may not even know.

It's all about what progresses you. That's particularly why i liked bagawan (despite his flaws) is because his life's work was understanding the meditation techniques in the vigyan bhairav tantra. And that no one technique or path was right for everyone.

Well..right in the word -- EN-LIGHT-en-ment. You would BE the light.

In Christianity - LUCIFER = BRINGER of light.

Someone who appears to be "good" but is not, or only in part.

originally posted by: 727Sky
Define enlightenment. Buddhism is a way of life..it does not recognize a god exist only that if you live by Buddha's teachings your life will be more at peace and happier.

There are several branches of Buddhism just like any other religion where men twist the teachings for their own societal benefit while all the time saying this or that head religious person said, therefore it must be thus.

The sect of Buddhism I am around says you are born 7 times and if successful (learned what you are supposed to learn) after the 7th you will not have to be reborn; it is a little foggy what happens next but the general consensus you move on or chose to come back and teach the one path .. No fire and brimstone for a bad life just come back a have a "do over" only this time whatever transgression you visited upon your fellow man in you past life will be visited upon you in your new life. Pretty simple way of looking at things to keep the population in line.

Man wants to build the great temples, churches, and Mosque trying to buy their way into the next life; for the bigger the edifice the more will see and seek an understanding... when the understanding is all around you and has nothing to do with man made buildings and taxes paid for your soul. It may be crude but it is very effective to instill a proper amount of fear and terror in a population you are trying to keep inline and herd to an acceptable destination for the governance/government or the TPTB. Communist always want to do away with religion for they want socialist/communism to be the one true way for you to serve. Serve your masters or die basically.

What sect is that? Interesting you have the #7 - that is a HOLY # in nearly all major religions. Hmmm...

One can be born many more times than 7 times from what I've experienced....but that is a story for another decade.

I always have trouble with those who say there is no God in Buddhism. If you accept reincarnation - then somebody / group has to be overseeing the process, had to have made the rules, etc...

The intellectually lazy will just say it's a natural process, but that makes no sense at all. But of course, anything can make sense to anyone. Say...have you met Dr.Frauduci.....ok, I digress.

Agree more/less with other stuff you said about the material aspects.

a reply to: dontneedaname

OK, I'll correct you because you're wrong.

Enlightenment is real. It's been my experience that nearly everyone knows when they are in the presence of enlightenment whether it is within themselves or others, even if they can't put in words. All it means, really, is that someone is in direct touch with a metaphysical source of knowledge.

While we are in physical bodies, no enlightenment is total or absolute. Physicality does not allow for perfection.

All human capabilities seem to be distributed on a bell curve. I don't think enlightenment is any different. Most people have an average amount of enlightenment; a few people don't seem to have much at all; a few people have a lot more than others. Individuals like Jesus, Buddha, Zarathustra, etc. had a lot more than average. That doesn't mean that any of them were totally or completely enlightened.

I think the person with average enlightenment can't really understand that. They treat highly enlightened beings as idols, to be worshipped, rather than as heroes, to be emulated.

My $.02.

originally posted by: 1947boomer
a reply to: dontneedaname

OK, I'll correct you because you're wrong.

Enlightenment is real. It's been my experience that nearly everyone knows when they are in the presence of enlightenment whether it is within themselves or others, even if they can't put in words. All it means, really, is that someone is in direct touch with a metaphysical source of knowledge.

While we are in physical bodies, no enlightenment is total or absolute. Physicality does not allow for perfection.

All human capabilities seem to be distributed on a bell curve. I don't think enlightenment is any different. Most people have an average amount of enlightenment; a few people don't seem to have much at all; a few people have a lot more than others. Individuals like Jesus, Buddha, Zarathustra, etc. had a lot more than average. That doesn't mean that any of them were totally or completely enlightened.

I think the person with average enlightenment can't really understand that. They treat highly enlightened beings as idols, to be worshipped, rather than as heroes, to be emulated.

My $.02.

Hahahahahahahahah.

People can sound wise and "enlightened." You can be knowledgeable, but that doesn't mean YOU ARE THE LIGHT.

Is Master Zhou enlightened?



If you can count pi to 20,000 digits, are you enlightened?



If you can run like a Tarahumara Indian - are you enlightened?



If you live off light, or minimal food, are you enlightened?



if you have an incredible mind, are you enlightened?



If you can do math and solve complex numerical problems, faster than any calculator, are you enlightened?



If you know about ET / "aliens," are you enlightened?




If you can heat up your body by using your mind, are you enlightened?



hahahahahahahaahahaha........


Enlightenment, is in the eye of the beholder.

Is John Chang enlightened?



How about putting animals to sleep?



How about swimming amongst icebergs?





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How about the Danish - they are often the happiest country in the world?

scandification.com...

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Am I enlightened, because I know all this and responded almost right away?

Are you enlightened because your questioning and learning on ATS?


hahahahahahahahhahaha.....many views of the same thing. Many pretenders. Many deceivers with silver tongues.
Many wolves in sheep's clothing. Many deceivers in fancy suits.

www.merriam-webster.com...


Many pinocchio nosed folks...know how to face read?

Many narrow eyed folks -- holding in shame and dark secrets. Know how to face read?

What is true enlightenment, at what level is it, and what is it compared to so that the truly enlightened know that they are enlightened.

Before Enlightenment, chop wood, carry water.

After Enlightenment, chop wood, carry water.

I forget who said it, but it holds definite merit.

originally posted by: dontneedaname

When I think of a "Buddha" I think of total enlightenment.

When you say you "think" of a buddha, don't you mean imagine? You imagine what a buddha is. Imagination is a mental projection of an object you consider as being external to your self. That is why there is that saying: "if you meet the buddha on the road, kill him! It really means to kill the duality in your own mind. The duality of the perception of the perfect and the imperfect. That is why you are also thinking of not just enlightenment but "total" enlightenment. But whether total or partial, enlightenment is also a product of imagination. I learned to love that line in one of John Lennon's songs: "God is a concept by which we measure our pain." I think that the word enlightenment has attracted a lot of hostility. What is an ego? An ego is the source of that hostility. It imagines the master's staff and beats himself over the head with it. This problem arises because we have never been accepted as we are. So therefore self acceptance is unacceptable to us. We are angry, we are sad and so we want to kill a buddha, find fault in the Bhagwan.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes, we have been told what is right and what is wrong before we ever had a chance to discover it for ourselves. And if we chose poorly we were corrected by the department of corrections.

What is the basis for people thinking SG achieved such a state?

Because it helps to avoid seeing one's own ego and it's track record of abysmal and ludicrous failure. Also the sense that "perfection" can be achieved in "time" allows one the luxury of postponement.

Because somebody said so in a text? How would they know?

Just some poetry. Poetry wasn't supposed to be appealing to the rational mind. Why did Jack and Jill go up the hill? To fetch a pail of water? But water is found down hill?

People exaggerate all the time or make assumptions

Expectations are the mother of all frustrations.

(And assumption is the mother of all f*ck ups)....I would say the same thing about Jesus' "resurrection" - lots of research showing another story / ending.

There might have been lots of research but in the final analysis religiousness is not for the masses. Religiousness is love - it is something personal - something that creates harmony out of sounds and fury which signify nothing.

a reply to: dontneedaname

Here is my problem with reincarnation.

The theory holds that when someone dies they return to this plane of existence in another body to work out there karmic debt.

However world population is on the rise, and has been that way for quite sometime.

If reincarnation where indeed the colour of our day then should there not be the same to similar number of people now as there was in generations past?

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: dontneedaname

Here is my problem with reincarnation.

The theory holds that when someone dies they return to this plane of existence in another body to work out there karmic debt.

However world population is on the rise, and has been that way for quite sometime.

If reincarnation where indeed the colour of our day then should there not be the same to similar number of people now as there was in generations past?

No problem. All you are will fade away. There will be no phoenix to survive the fire. Just don't waste time sitting on the fence pondering theory and doing the maths (err I mean math) when you walk - walk, when you talk - talk, when you sleep - sleep. Just don't be like those fools who feel death is chasing them so are making up for lost time driving their car smoking a cigarette, eating a hamburger, talking on their phone and listening to the radio all at the same time

a reply to: HilterDayon

Don't mean im still not on the fence HilterDayon as to us being more than the sum of our parts.

As to life well from our perspective, we are here for a good time, not a long time.

Hedging ones bet seem to be the best advice.

After all you never know what comes next, and if its nothing, well in that case you are never going to know.

a reply to: dontneedaname
Absolutely no one can achieve enlightenment.

Enlightenment is the recognition that there is no thing.

There's just what is occurring.

Why do people believe Siddhartha Gautama became a "Buddha" / achieved enlightenment?

Question for you .
Why should I care ?