What's your religious experience?

a reply to: LABTECH767

Does all that still happen to you in a weird way I feel like I've had similar things happen to me as you've described

originally posted by: Fatboy527
Don't begin to Preach to me....I have my opinion and you have yours....And it's an opinion. And God can kiss my arse. I'm about as sincere as you.a reply to: visitedbythem

I can feel your pain.
I do understand why you came on here to preach to others. Its a sermon of bitterness you preach. You know wrong from right. We all do. Preach on dear preacher. Enjoy your evening

a reply to: misterE12

It is hard but in time you adapt, you learn to ignore them.

The worst part is that if you are not centred you can fall foul of thinking people are whispering about you and become paranoid as that is one of the cruel things hearing voices even when you block them out at the edge of your mind can do, as I am now getting on a bit I suspect that if they were paranormal then they have since probably found some poor kid to target and moved on but some have remained despite all my protestations, prayers to God for them to go and refusal to do what they want.

I have seen objects appear out of thin air, had small change in my pocket turn into higher value coins then back to even lower value coins than they were when I came to have to spend them, seen what many on here call the Mandela affect but for me it was parts of the bible that changed, in my bible that I remember there were definite differences in the book of revelation though the core of the book and it's ultimate outcome remain the same I find the one in this reality abridged with pieces missing, the God portrayed in the bible I remember was kinder but still harsh and still him so once again it remains basically the same but with a harsher version of the same being in the one in this reality, there was NEVER a passage that said "Give the immoral brother to Satan" which has been in my opinion ADDED in this reality and is I believe and utterly blasphemous passage that goes against Christs teachings.

I have seen tree branches bend on a windless night.

The one thing that makes me ponder that perhaps I was not completely insane or had some kind of brain problem was that other members of my family had experiences, my mother and sister saw the curtains move of there own accord in the living room, these were heavy velvet curtains and the window was shut and several other incidents.

But Yes I still hear them but ignore them.

I thought honestly that I had gone insane so kind of sat on my problem and hid it ashamed so despite it being at it's peak in 1995 I took a job in a factory as just another worker, worked all the hours that god sent often from six in the morning to ten thirty at night six day's a week and often with a further eight or twelve hour shift on a Sunday, it helped a bit and I ended up going to Japan and Holland for that company.

Later after leaving that job for a better paying one I suffered terrible tendinitis in my right forearm and could not grip the objects coming off the line at that next job without pain so I had to quit that job very shortly after taking it, I then worked in security so hid my madness affectively though I suffered in silence, my close family knew I was ill though and at first they thought that I was on drug's which I denied in consternation of course since I was definitely not.

I ended up trying to kill myself several times during the worst period of this and on one occasion the doctor proscribed me anti depressants after I told him everything and just noted me down as being depressed, I never told the doctor of course but I swallowed the whole bottle and went to bed, woke up in the night delirious feeling like my skin was burning off and somehow got myself to the bathroom with the idea of running the cold tap to take the burning away, somehow I ended up back in my bed and slept for three day's straight, I am a bit of coward so since I fear heights jumping off a tall building was kind of our of the question but the idea of just going to sleep sounded at the time nice but of course that is NOT the end of life and I realized that attempting to kill yourself is just cowardly as well as it is nothing more than running away with no destination in mind like a bloody idiot.

After this I went into security (So I have never been noted as having mental problems, kept it affectively under the rug so to speak) and worked in that for well over a decade before heart complications and other physical health maladies such as chronic sciatica took there tole on me and forced me to have to quit my job, I was too slow to catch the thieves anyway and on one occasion chased a guy that pulled a knife on me - Not supposed to do that but when your testosterone spikes - and he ran just in front of a train nearly being killed by it which in the UK if he had would have meant me for the high jump since I would have been blamed for the shop lifters death, I had to deal with other people that were obviously going through what I had experiences (But handling it far more crazily) and many other incidents, I got the piss taken out of me by the police (Busy's as we call them) whom passed the CCTV footage around as it made there day light seeing a fat big security guard legging after a skinny heroin abusing shoplifter that was outpacing me like a whippet with an angry bull after it, apparently I was quite the celebrity with them finding it hilarious and in hindsight I had to laugh as well, it was like something off train spotters.

So I have seen things, were they in my head?, were they real, was I passing through reality's and at the end of the day does it matter since we are all on this world together, mad or sane we have to live, life is simple, work, pay your bill's, get shelter, eat, sleep, make friends and if you meet that right person make kid's.

One thing I will say though I would NEVER wish it on anyone.

One final thought I may have missed up which sister used the Ouija board in the shed, it was either Jeanette or Lynn, I don't think it was Lynn as she was only six years older than me and had our elder sister (the good one) Christine found out she would have really - really told them off since she was always faithful to our Lord and still is.

What I do remember is a conversation in my brother Terry's (Terence) house between Jeanette, Lynn and Terry in which they got onto the subject of Ouija boards (Which I had no interest in as this was before I started to hear voices and long enough after that childhood experience for me to have totally forgotten it and put it down to scrambled childhood memories and that conversation one of them mentioned there friend, how the glass had started to move on it's own when no one had there hand on it and how in terror they had smashed the glass and ran out of the shed.


There are in fact a surprising number of people that have similar experiences/conditions, they hide it or adapt to it and range from people in all walks of life from politicians to police men to doctors to common labourers and people in abject poverty.

It can destroy lives and does, put's unacceptable strain on relationships even family ones and is a nightmare.

But it is a very human condition, the fact is you will see no outward sign except perhaps someone thinking out loud mumbling to themselves may be a sign but other than that it boils down to those that learn to cope and those that can not, the latter end up in institutions if they are lucky.

a reply to: misterE12

RELIGIOUS EXPEREINCE

Please note these words do not indicate any good spiritual experience they are religious not spiritual.

men need to learn the difference.

a reply to: LABTECH767

What a story and your writing style is exceptional..

a reply to: olaru12

I only wish that it as just a story, sorry about my atrocious spelling as well (Should see how many times I have to type passwords to get them to work).

I have a great evening every evening because I don't cloud it with fairy tale nonsense. As I said prior....It's an opinion and I'm sorry you can't except that.lab coats.a reply to: visitedbythem

a reply to: Fatboy527

Sorry if it scares you, actually I did qualify as a Laboratory technician in college AND later an electronic technician before going onto higher courses so no I have NOT worn a lab coat in about thirty years or so.

That said, experience is something that is strictly personal and one of the flaws of our means of communication no matter how clever we are with words is that we can not explain a personal experience in enough detail for another to share that experience so for them it remains for me Subjective and for you less than Objective since you hear it third hand and from a source that has difficulty putting the experiences into frame in such a manner as to make them understandable and translatable from your point of reference.

Since you either have no valid similar experience OR you have decided to deny such experience I understand your point, the idea you think that I can not accept your point is moot.

In fact I have always taken the third person approach to it, anyone seeing or hearing what I say (and KNOW) that I experienced would of course think me insane, a fantasist, delusional or any number of other labels they can stick on the jar they put me into on a shelf in there mind stuffed with all manner of other information they then reject or think of as nothing more than a curio.

As such I accept your point, in fact I envy you since as I point out I wish to God that I had NOT experienced what I had however maybe then I would just be another head in the sand lacking spirituality so maybe in his greater wisdom God had a purpose for it, after all Thomas did not believe the Lord had risen until he put his hand into the wound in his side.

I am not forcing my story which I say is fact and for me it is, onto you or anyone else I am merely answering a question by a member of the site, it falls categorically more into the paranormal or even if you want to take that stance delusional category than it does the Religious one however except and were I believe the bad things were caused by the devil whom seems to have targeted me for no other reason than that my mother had an NDE or actually since the surgeon had given up and was about to declare her dead an actual death experience in which she saw the Virgin Mary calling to her from the top of a mountain beckoning her to come to her and of course the Devil hates the Virgin whose child is his ultimate downfall, I maybe wrong as to it being the devil as the particularly evil spirits (or delusions of you want to take that non Jungian point of view) may have simply been opportunists attacking for there own greedy reasons.

Usually in the paranormal experiences poltergeist activity which some of my experiences falls under occur to younger people about the age I was usually with children or young teenagers into there twenty's as there foci and it has been expressed by some paranormal researchers that this may be some entity using energy's from these people or even outward projections of there own negative psyche that have manifested as what we refer to as Evil Spirits or sometimes playful and harmless ones though usually poltergeist if they do not disappear as a person ages which usually they do then they may turn nasty even causing harm to a person.

Your point having never experienced and therefore in utter denial of a reality of which you so far are not knowingly a part is to me like a man putting a blindfold over his already closed eye's and then believing that Manhattan has no buildings in it.

It is your choice and I respect it.

That said I am sorry if the story scared you, I wish you well and may the Lord watch over you.

(I wonder which if us is fatter, I have something of a paunch despite being tee total not meaning to leave the subject haha)

Well, one example is when I stumbled upon ATS and began observing the fulfillment of this prophecy and the truth/accuracy and reliability of these subsequent descriptions of human behaviour (or patterns of human behaviour so well demonstrated on ATS), and the related understanding to see it that I thankfully received from Jehovah God (cause I never would have noticed without His help, without Him opening up my eyes to see, so to speak):

“For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the wholesome* [Or “healthful; beneficial.”] teaching, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled.* [Or “to tell them what they want to hear.”] They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories.” (2 Timothy 4:3,4)

“So we should no longer be children, tossed about as by waves and carried here and there by every wind of teaching by means of the trickery of men, by means of cunning in deceptive schemes.” (Ephesians 4:14)

“Look out that no one takes you captive by means of the philosophy and empty deception according to human tradition, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ;” “We have much to say about him, and it is difficult to explain, because you have become dull in your hearing. For although by now* [Lit., “in view of the time.”] you should be teachers, you again need someone to teach you from the beginning the elementary things of the sacred pronouncements of God, and you have gone back to needing milk, not solid food. For everyone who continues to feed on milk is unacquainted with the word of righteousness, for he is a young child. But solid food belongs to mature people, to those who through use have their powers of discernment* [Or “their perceptive powers.”] trained to distinguish both right and wrong.” (Col 2:8; Hebrews 5:11-14)

“However, the inspired word clearly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired statements and teachings of demons, by means of the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, whose conscience is seared as with a branding iron.”(1 Timothy 4:1,2).

Knowledge (Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 2)

...
Knowledge (gno'sis) is put in a very favorable light in the Christian Greek Scriptures. However, not all that men may call “knowledge” is to be sought, because philosophies and views exist that are “falsely called ‘knowledge.’” (1Ti 6:20) ...
... Thus Paul wrote about some who were learning (taking in knowledge) “yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge [...] of truth.” (2Ti 3:6, 7)

“From among these arise men who slyly work their way into households and captivate weak women loaded down with sins, led by various desires, always learning and yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth.” (2Ti 3:6, 7)

The Art of Persuasion (Awake!—1975)

...
Entrenched Emotional Barriers

Some persons, when arguing, deliberately blind themselves to facts unacceptable to them. The religious leaders in Jesus’ day did this. They knew quite well what the Bible prophecies had said would constitute the signs by which to identify the Messiah, but they refused to see that Jesus fulfilled all these signs. Jesus was emotionally unacceptable to them, because he did not offer them the political independence, power and glory they craved. So they closed their eyes to the facts and rejected him. But in doing so, as Jesus observed, the prophecy of Isaiah was having fulfillment, which says: “For the heart of this people has grown unreceptive, and with their ears they have heard without response, and they have shut their eyes; that they might never see with their eyes and hear with their ears and get the sense of it with their hearts.”​—Matt. 13:14, 15.

When strong emotional barriers exist, you cannot persuade an individual to change his position until they are removed. What is the emotion in each instance that blocks persuasion? Is it pride, prejudice, self-interest, desire for group acceptance? Or does he reject truth because it is unpopular, or would curtail fleshly pleasures, or would bring obligations? To discern the cause, let him talk.

Illustrations are an important tool in persuasion. By dramatizing a point they make us see and feel. They stir us emotionally.

...

Jesus was answering the question from his disciples: “Why do you speak to them by the use of illustrations?” there at Matthew 13. In reply he said: “To you it is granted to understand the sacred secrets of the Kingdom of the heavens, but to them it is not granted. For whoever has, more will be given him, and he will be made to abound; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. That is why I speak to them by the use of illustrations; for looking, they look in vain, and hearing, they hear in vain, nor do they get the sense of it. And the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled in their case. It says: ‘You will indeed hear but by no means get the sense of it, and you will indeed look but by no means see. [followed by the part already quoted and bolded above]
. . . “However, happy are your eyes because they see and your ears because they hear. For truly I say to you, many prophets and righteous men desired to see the things you are observing but did not see them, and to hear the things you are hearing but did not hear them.” (Matthew 13:10-17)

“Hear this, you foolish and senseless people:* [Lit., “you foolish people without heart.”]

They have eyes but cannot see;

They have ears but cannot hear.

. . .

But this people has a stubborn and rebellious heart;

They have turned aside and gone their own way.” (Jeremiah 5:21,23)

Romans 11:7,8:

What, then? The very thing Israel is earnestly seeking he did not obtain, but the ones chosen obtained it. The rest had their senses dulled, just as it is written: “God has given them a spirit of deep sleep, eyes that do not see and ears that do not hear, down to this very day.”

“But Jehovah has not given you a heart to understand and eyes to see and ears to hear, down to this day.” (Deut 29:4)

For your heart (almost all posters on ATS) too “has grown unreceptive”, and with your ears you have also “heard without response”, and you too “have shut [your] eyes”, because it doesn't 'tickle your ears' (it is not what you want to hear) 'according to your desires' (Mt 13:15; 2 Tim 4:3,4).

Being able to see these things constitutes a very impressive religious experience for me, as well as evidence of the reliability and accuracy of Bible prophecy and biblical descriptions of human behaviour and re-occurring patterns in human behaviour as described at Eccl. 1:9,10:

What has been is what will be,

And what has been done will be done again;

There is nothing new under the sun.

Is there anything of which one may say, “Look at this—it is new”?

It already existed from long ago;

It already existed before our time.

the bible-accurate history reliable prophecy part 1 of 3 (playlist)




Another example of a re-occurring pattern in human behaviour (also demonstrated a lot on ATS, which is evidence for what I mentioned before), can be found at Isaiah 5:20,21:

Woe to those who say that good is bad and bad is good,

Those who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness,

Those who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!

Woe to those wise in their own eyes

And discreet in their own sight!

Guess you weren't expecting that kind of "religious experience" to be shared, were you?

Below is a little more about what I observed and seen demonstrated on ATS; providing factual observable evidence for the existence of "the God of truth" and the reliability and trustworthiness of his word, the Bible, including the statement:

“But let God be found true, even if every man be found a liar.” (Romans 3:4)

False Religion is a Snare and a Racket (playlist)

Babylon the Great (Reasoning From the Scriptures)

What's lurking beneath the surface of self-professed "patriots"? And the hidden dangers of patriotism and its cousin, nationalism. (playlist)

Um? Why should you let me into your heaven, Oh Lord God Almighty?

Er, I have great religious experiences that enlighten and evolve my spiritual being.


Sorry depart unto my left ye whom I know not.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Your point is why should GOD let a person into his heaven, well since everything belongs to God already including you even if you don't believe in him as far as we Christians are concerned that becomes a weird question.

If you mean why would anyone be taken into the NEW more perfect heaven that we Christians believe in well there is only one single way that we can get there, through the sacrifice and mercy of Christ, we get there by his Grace not by our work's.

It is however GOOD to do good work's and he (Yeshua/Jesus the Emanuel GOD TAKEN ON HUMAN FORM) said many times though there are some very un-Christian false Christians in the world whom deny this or argue around it playing semantics the following thing's.

If you have two coats and your brother has non give him the one you are not using.
Go sell all you own, give it to the poor (that you may have riches in heaven) and come follow me.
As you treat the least of these (The poor and downtrodden, the rejects of society which worships money instead of God) so to do you treat me.
The Fox have there holes, the Birds of the air have there nests but the Son of Man (Jesus) has no place to lay his head (is Homeless - in the earth which has rejected him and even took the clothing off his back).

He also said and this is one to think about, let the poor drink wine.

In other words the man whom is also God that did the greatest good work ever, lay down his very (mortal bodily) life for the sinners (let he whom is without sin cast the first stone - non did because they were ALL sinners and worthy of death under the law so only Grace can save them and he also said Judge not lest you be Judged and blessed are the merciful for they shall receive mercy), even on his cross saying to his Spiritual higher self the Father in heaven (non has seen the father except the son, not even the angels in heaven have seen the father only the son - He who see's the son see's the father) father forgive them for they know not what they do.

Now it is Good to do Good and in fact if you truly believe in Christ and have a bit of extra change in your pocket you are not going to walk past a starving man and that is not just Christians but any human being with a heart that would give something or at least have that man's suffering play upon there mind, even Atheists with any what we call humanity within them often have pang's of compassion when faced with such.

But not all people are the same, the Elite whom rule our world got there by stepping on other people, the crook's in charge see other people as worthless unless they can exploit them in some way.

Jesus kingdom is different there is no place for them but for the starving man, for the man whom has compassion on him there is.

Basically it is down to Jesus choice, his GRACE not your work's but if you do good works it can only go in your favour BUT even then he made certain reservations.

A man who does good work's to look like a good man and be lauded by people has had his reward here on earth but the man that does it in secret has his reward from the Father whom see's what happens in secret.


Basically non of us are worthy of heaven only the Lamb (Jesus) and he is the way we get into heaven there is no other way but his grace and mercy.


(I mean you should know this, your Avatar Title is based on Chester John after all far too close to call to Prester John a mythical - or was he a real - Christian king that dark age and medieval period Christians believed ruled a distant Christian kingdom in the east beyond the barbarian lands - you know in China there is a village with a mysterious temple that may be the remains of such a kingdom, the temple is a Buddhist site but they will not allow westerners to see what is inside because an early western explorer reported that the temple was filled with ancient Christian iconography and therefore used to be a Church which was taken over or perhaps back over perhaps after a period of Christianity in the area by the Buddhists at some point - it is probable however that the Legend of Prester John was actually an account of the Ethiopian Empire a Christian Empire that withstood the Muslims for over a thousand years until it was sacked by a marauding English army officer whom stole many of there most holy relic's and left there nation weakened to the point that though many remained Christian the Muslims were able to then get the upper hand - oddly similar to the betrayal that befell Constantinople when the Doge of Venice blackmailed the leaders of the final crusade into attacking that Christian city instead of retaking Jerusalem which had been there original goal - you know what Jesus called Betrayers, Devil's as in one among you will betray me, one among you is a Devil so that includes the Doge of Venice and leaders of that last crusade and also the army officer that sacked the Ethiopian monastery's and church's murdering many of there soldiers and leaving the Ethiopians similarly bankrupt and unable to pay there army as had the sack of Constantinople to that empire).

(Chester by the way is a city around the corner more or less from me, I live in Lancashire and that is in Cheshire a county named for the city - the name actually means Fortified Town in Latin or something similar so there are other places in the UK that incorporate the word Chester into them after other mostly long vanished former Roman towns that once existed here, it is interesting as a city that still retains almost it's entire Roman wall albeit one rebuilt many times over the fifteen going on sixteen century's since the Roman withdrawal from Britain, a great number of roman sights in the city as well, an amphitheatre for one and alongside York a site in which many Roman period and later ghosts are often seen)

a reply to: LABTECH767

he has already let me in his heaven.

He wont be asking me that question because of the blood of Christ alone, which covers me, allows me in and none of my works or experiences will add to that.

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: ChesterJohn

... on his cross saying to his Spiritual higher self the Father in heaven ...

Funny expression.

I guess that's what you end up with when trying to hold on to the doctrines of men of which “not any formulation ... can be found in the Bible”.

Cardinal John O’Connor stated about the Trinity: “We know that it is a very profound mystery, which we don’t begin to understand.” Why is the Trinity so difficult to understand?

The Illustrated Bible Dictionary gives one reason. Speaking of the Trinity, this publication admits: “It is not a biblical doctrine in the sense that any formulation of it can be found in the Bible.” Because the Trinity is “not a biblical doctrine,” Trinitarians have been desperately looking for Bible texts​—even twisting them—​to find support for their teaching.

Babylon the Great (Reasoning From the Scriptures)

Definition: ... In time, Babylonish religious beliefs and practices spread to many lands. So Babylon the Great became a fitting name for false religion as a whole.

...

Ancient Babylonian religious concepts and practices are found in religions worldwide

“Egypt, Persia, and Greece felt the influence of the Babylonian religion . . . The strong admixture of Semitic elements both in early Greek mythology and in Grecian cults is now so generally admitted by scholars as to require no further comment. These Semitic elements are to a large extent more specifically Babylonian.”—The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria (Boston, 1898), M. Jastrow, Jr., pp. 699, 700.

Their gods: There were triads of gods, and among their divinities were those representing various forces of nature and ones that exercised special influence in certain activities of mankind. (Babylonian and Assyrian Religion, Norman, Okla.; 1963, S. H. Hooke, pp. 14-40) “The Platonic trinity, itself merely a rearrangement of older trinities dating back to earlier peoples, appears to be the rational philosophic trinity of attributes that gave birth to the three hypostases or divine persons taught by the Christian churches. . . . This Greek philosopher’s [Plato’s] conception of the divine trinity . . . can be found in all the ancient [pagan] religions.”—Nouveau Dictionnaire Universel (Paris, 1865-1870), edited by M. Lachâtre, Vol. 2, p. 1467.

...

Belief regarding death: “Neither the people nor the leaders of religious thought [in Babylon] ever faced the possibility of the total annihilation of what once was called into existence. Death was a passage to another kind of life.”—The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria, p. 556.

Plato (pagan Greek philosopher, Mother Nature/Gaia- and Zeus-worshipper, promoter of evolutionary philosophies and myths/false stories, promoter of pantheism) is involved with that last myth as well:

Soul (Insight on the Scriptures)

...
What is the origin of the teaching that the human soul is invisible and immortal?

The difficulty lies in the fact that the meanings popularly attached to the English word “soul” stem primarily, not from the Hebrew or Christian Greek Scriptures, but from ancient Greek philosophy, actually pagan religious thought. Greek philosopher Plato, for example, quotes Socrates as saying: “The soul, . . . if it departs pure, dragging with it nothing of the body, . . . goes away into that which is like itself, into the invisible, divine, immortal, and wise, and when it arrives there it is happy, freed from error and folly and fear . . . and all the other human ills, and . . . lives in truth through all after time with the gods.”​—Phaedo, 80, D, E; 81, A.

In direct contrast with the Greek teaching of the psy·kheʹ (soul) as being immaterial, intangible, invisible, and immortal, the Scriptures show that both psy·kheʹ and neʹphesh, as used with reference to earthly creatures, refer to that which is material, tangible, visible, and mortal.

...

The Roman Catholic translation, The New American Bible, in its “Glossary of Biblical Theology Terms” (pp. 27, 28), says: “In the New Testament, to ‘save one’s soul’ (Mk 8:35) does not mean to save some ‘spiritual’ part of man, as opposed to his ‘body’ (in the Platonic sense) but the whole person with emphasis on the fact that the person is living, desiring, loving and willing, etc., in addition to being concrete and physical.”​—Edition published by P. J. Kenedy & Sons, New York, 1970.

...

The ancient Greek writers applied psy·kheʹ in various ways and were not consistent, their personal and religious philosophies influencing their use of the term. Of Plato, to whose philosophy the common ideas about the English “soul” may be attributed (as is generally acknowledged), it is stated: “While he sometimes speaks of one of [the alleged] three parts of the soul, the ‘intelligible,’ as necessarily immortal, while the other two parts are mortal, he also speaks as if there were two souls in one body, one immortal and divine, the other mortal.”​—The Evangelical Quarterly, London, 1931, Vol. III, p. 121, “Thoughts on the Tripartite Theory of Human Nature,” by A. McCaig.

You know, witches got a thing for 3's as well (see for example the TV show Charmed, about 3 sister witches, they also use the Triquetra symbol on the cover of their spellbook and as their most prominent feature in the opening credits).

Triquetra Symbol (Ancient-Symbols.com)
[between brackets is mine)

An ancient Celtic [pagan] symbol, the triquetra is considered one of the oldest; dating back to as early as 500 BC when it was used to symbolize the triple goddess (maiden-mother-crone). Over the centuries it has become the symbol for the ...[pagan] Trinity among [self-professed] Christians [Trinitarians really] in Ireland. The [pagan] symbol is often used to represent the 3 fundamental elements – air, water, and earth or the infinite cycle of life. It is also known as a rune of protection. [yay, magic, what does the Bible say about incorporating magic into your worship of God?]

Anyway, back to Plato...

Soul (Reasoning From the Scriptures)

...
What is the origin of Christendom’s belief in an immaterial, immortal soul?

“The Christian concept of a spiritual soul created by God and infused into the body at conception to make man a living whole is the fruit of a long development in Christian philosophy. Only with Origen [died c. 254 C.E.] in the East and St. Augustine [died 430 C.E.] in the West was the soul established as a spiritual substance and a philosophical concept formed of its nature. . . . His [Augustine’s] doctrine . . . owed much (including some shortcomings) to Neoplatonism.”—New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Vol. XIII, pp. 452, 454.

“The concept of immortality is a product of Greek thinking, whereas the hope of a resurrection belongs to Jewish thought. . . . Following Alexander’s conquests Judaism gradually absorbed Greek concepts.”—Dictionnaire Encyclopédique de la Bible (Valence, France; 1935), edited by Alexandre Westphal, Vol. 2, p. 557.

“Immortality of the soul is a Greek notion formed in ancient mystery cults and elaborated by the philosopher Plato.”—Presbyterian Life, May 1, 1970, p. 35.

“Do we believe that there is such a thing as death? . . . Is it not the separation of soul and body? And to be dead is the completion of this; when the soul exists in herself, and is released from the body and the body is released from the soul, what is this but death? . . . And does the soul admit of death? No. Then the soul is immortal? Yes.”—Plato’s “Phaedo,” Secs. 64, 105, as published in Great Books of the Western World (1952), edited by R. M. Hutchins, Vol. 7, pp. 223, 245, 246.

“So you have made the word of God invalid because of your tradition. You hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about you, when he said: ‘This people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far removed from me. It is in vain that they keep worshipping me, for they teach commands of men as doctrines.’” (Matt. 15:6-9, NW; Jesus Christ) I can easily add that one to my list of bible texts describing re-occurring patterns in human behaviour that provide me with evidence and a religious experience when observing them on ATS, that I talked about and listed* in my previous comment. (*: just some examples of some of the most often demonstrated ones)

a reply to: whereislogic

God is real, Jesus - YESHUA KING OF JERUSALEM is my God, Saviour and KING and has paid for me with his own blood, beyond that what more do I need to know I Am NOT A Gnostic, Gnostics are mostly damned to hell by the way (We all are under the law for whom but Yeshua is perfect?) since it is THEY whom lead the flock astray and end up teaching salvation through knowledge and salvation through work's while abandoning the importance of grace when it is through grace alone that we are saved - that is not to say that God will not give Grace to a good man whom has done good work's all his life because in my opinion I believe God will.

(of course I could be wrong and I try not to judge others).

I've seen a cloud have a giant cloud hand come out of that cloud, turn into a fist, then behind another cloud. It was bright with some clouds, that ended up being completely dark an cloudy, only to turn bright as day again.

It only lasted a few moments, an still remember the rumbling.

a reply to: LABTECH767

You clicked reply to my comment but it sounds like you're replying to someone or something else.

I guess there's little to say in response to the historical facts I bolded about the doctrine of the Trinity from the Nouveau Dictionnaire Universel for example anyway. Other than changing the subject to gnosticism.

I take it I also don't have to elaborate on why I shared the first video in my comment to you, since somewhere deep down, you probably already knew what you were doing and why, so you knew immediately why I used that video without any further explanation or elaboration needed on my part.

Would be an interesting question to ask oneself one day, 'why didn't I need any further elaboration on the point of that video in response to the bolded phrase of mine? Do I really know, deep down, what it is that I'm doing?'

Anyway, just something to think about if you ever decide to do some self-reflection regarding what you believe in and how you try to make the Bible fit what it is that you were taught and want to believe in, even those Bible texts that are unambiguously contradicting your beliefs (causing some really funny expressions, that aren't even using proper English syntax anymore: "his .... self the Father"? That's not proper English anymore).

“However, some things in them are hard to understand, and these things the ignorant* [Or “untaught.”] and unstable are twisting, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.” (2 Peter 3:16)

Another one of those re-occurring patterns of human behaviour often demonstrated on ATS.

a reply to: whereislogic

Sorry but I never looked at the video.

However here are some interesting video's, if you believe there is nothing more I can give to you on that but if you did not these would probably be interpreted in a different way.


IF you believe we both accept Christ as our Saviour enough said.

Messianic Judaism is growing more and more popular in Israel.


Yeshua (Jesus in it's Latinised form) was not uncommon in the first century and before so there were other Yeshua's than our Lord but there is another site that may indicate Messianic Jews still living in the land of Israel even just a few century's after the expulsion by the Romans of the majority of the Jews in the region following the revolt of 59 AD.


There are apparently no accounts of the city of Susya in any historic texts yet it existed which suggests the people may have been pariah's to those around them, perhaps because they may have been Jews whom believed in Jesus or perhaps a sect that did not mix with there pagan Greek and Roman cultured city's, about the sixth century some of the many underground dwelling places in the city since in winter they could live in the houses above ground but in summer it gets very hot there so they dwelt below in large elaborate caves carved from the bedrock there, from about that period the roofs of many of these caves show evidence of burning, this would have occurred about the time Islam was gaining the upper hand in the region but it's cause could have been several things.

It is possible that Susya did exist in some records but those have simply been lost to us over the ensuing century's.

I don't need the evidence and neither I believe do you, for me God is definitely real and Jesus is God simple as that, God is One and He is Three, even St Patrick had problems explaining it to the Celt's of Ireland so he famously used a three leaved Shamrock to explain it.
We will be confounded if we try to understand the true nature of God, I recently watched a Youtube video in which a man whom had died found himself looking at his body then he experienced himself becoming something great he could only describe as a God but he heard the true God say to him even in this state you still can not comprehend what I am, when he was resuscitated and came back he brought this lesson with him, God is beyond comprehension.

To argue that WE understand the trinity therefore would be wrong, there is doctrine and there is faith, not everyone that believes and accepts understands organised religions doctrines or accepts them but they do accept Jesus and that is enough.

a reply to: LABTECH767

I'm not confounded about God, God's word, the Bible, is very clear about it:

“Now a go-between (intermediary) has to do with and implies more than one party [there can be no mediator with just one person]. Yet God is [only] one Person.” (Galatians 3:20; AMPC)

Not three, not three-in-one, not two-in-one, God is just one person, one individual. And we all know who His mediator between men and God is, don't we?

“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus”. (1 Timothy 2:5; NW)

Clear as crystal to me. Two distinct individuals/persons. Since God is only one person, Jesus cannot be God if he's already the mediator between God and men. No mystery there. And neither was his God and Father a mystery to Jesus, like the way certain religious leaders teach the mantra that 'God is a mystery'. “Jesus answered: ‘If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, the one who you say is your God. Yet you have not known him, but I know him. And if I said I do not know him, I would be like you, a liar. But I do know him and am observing his word.’” (John 8:54,55)

Synonyms for "paradox" at thesaurus.com:

contradiction
mystery
error
mistake
nonsense

The last 3 are depicted in a slightly different color scheme (indicating that the first 2 are most similar).

“Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, turning away from the empty speeches that violate what is holy and from the contradictions of the falsely called ‘knowledge.’” (1 Tim 6:20)

“On her forehead was written a name, a mystery: ‘Babylon the Great, the mother of the prostitutes and of the disgusting things of the earth.’” (Rev 17:5)

The Paradox of Tertullian

...

Corrupts the Truth While Defending It

Tertullian began his essay entitled Against Praxeas saying: “In various ways has the devil rivalled and resisted the truth. Sometimes his aim has been to destroy the truth by defending it.” The man named Praxeas of this essay is not clearly identified, but Tertullian took issue with his teachings concerning God and Christ. He viewed Praxeas as a pawn of Satan covertly trying to corrupt Christianity.

A crucial issue among professed Christians at that time was the relationship between God and Christ. Some among them, particularly those of Greek background, found it difficult to reconcile belief in one God with the role of Jesus as Savior and Redeemer. Praxeas attempted to solve their dilemma by teaching that Jesus was just a different mode of the Father and there was no difference between the Father and the Son. This theory, known as modalism, alleges that God revealed himself “as the Father in Creation and in the giving of the Law, as the Son in Jesus Christ, and as the Holy Spirit after Christ’s ascension.”

Tertullian showed that the Scriptures made a clear distinction between the Father and the Son. After quoting 1 Corinthians 15:27, 28, he reasoned: “He who subjected (all things), and He to whom they were subjected​—must necessarily be two different Beings.” Tertullian called attention to Jesus’ own words: “The Father is greater than I am.” (John 14:28) Using portions of the Hebrew Scriptures, such as Psalm 8:5, he showed how the Bible describes the “inferiority” of the Son. “Thus the Father is distinct from the Son, being greater than the Son,” Tertullian concluded. “Inasmuch as He who begets is one, and He who is begotten is another; He, too, who sends is one, and He who is sent is another; and He, again, who makes is one, and He through whom the thing is made is another.”

Tertullian viewed the Son as subordinate to the Father. However, in his attempt to counteract modalism, he went “beyond the things that are written.” (1 Corinthians 4:6) As Tertullian erroneously sought to prove the divinity of Jesus by means of another theory, he coined the formula “one substance in three persons.” Using this concept, he attempted to show that God, his Son, and the holy spirit were three distinct persons existing in one divine substance. Tertullian thus became the first to apply the Latin form of the word “trinity” to the Father, the Son, and the holy spirit.

Beware of Worldly Philosophy

How was Tertullian able to devise the theory of “one substance in three persons”? The answer lies in yet another paradox about the man​—his view of philosophy. Tertullian called philosophy “‘the doctrines’ of men and ‘of demons.’” He openly criticized the practice of using philosophy to support Christian truths. “Away with all attempts to produce a mottled Christianity of Stoic, Platonic, and dialectic composition,” he stated. Yet, Tertullian himself made liberal use of secular philosophy when it harmonized with his own ideas.​—Colossians 2:8.

One reference work states: “Trinitarian theology required the aid of Hellenistic concepts and categories for its development and expression.” And the book The Theology of Tertullian notes: “[It was] a curious blend of juristic and philosophic ideas and terms, which enabled Tertullian to set out the trinitarian doctrine in a form which, despite its limitations and imperfections, supplied the framework for the later presentation of the doctrine at the Council of Nicaea.” Hence, Tertullian’s formula​—three persons in one divine substance—​played a major role in the spreading of religious error throughout all of Christendom.

Tertullian accused others of destroying the truth while they were trying to defend it. Ironically, however, by mixing divinely inspired Bible truth and human philosophy, he fell into the same trap. Let us therefore take to heart the Scriptural warning against “paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons.”​—1 Timothy 4:1.